Is there any value in amateurs researching UFOs?

I wanted to get peoples opinion on this question. Only because I struggle with it myself. Personally I am leaning to no value, but let me explain why.

1. It would appear that most researchers out there work under the assumptions that UFOs are alien visitors and then go out and look for data to support this belief system. As opposed to going and collecting data without making assumptions about the nature of the UFOs and then making an analysis based on the data. A scientist like Jacque Vallee is certainly a great example of the right approach,but there are so few of him and so many of the other type running around and mudding the waters.

2. If some day this phenomena reveals itself to us. I wonder what the value is any of the research that has been done? Nobody is going to listen to the amateurs, but everyone will listen the Scientists that will be flocking to this topic.

Just some food for thought. Let me know if you agree or disagree.

reply to post by rand27


I believe your Annalise is correct, no value.

I too gathered as much of the material I could and waited to come to the conclusion. I never assumed anything concerning them, I just continued to gather information, sightings, first hand accounts, video presentations, witnesses testimony, for over 30 years, and what does it get me, or for that matter anyone else? Nothing.

I think one of the major problems is that the society in general has been conditioned to only accept the "opinion" of the "Appointed Ones", those who have credentials that instill a sense of correctness or the appearance of correctness.

There is no fire unless a fireman tells you, there is no crime unless a Policeman states it. Their are no more new realities unless a Scientist can prove it. We are directed to "authorities" to find answers rather than look for them ourselves.

Well, I did just that, and I found what I was looking for. Its a shame humanity can not just stop and think for a moment, think for themselves. But in defense of humanity they are quite busy just surviving, paying rent, slaving away at a job that does not appreciate their efforts. They are busy fighting negative influences in the form of movies and music, from destroying their children and family. They are busy hating each other for no other reason than venting frustration from all the other pressures being dumped on them. They are fighting for their lives because they have a medical industry that is more interested in making unethical profits from drugs that do more harm than good. They are all, black and white, male and female, husband and wife, children and parents, government and governed, educated and ignorant, the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly, all, pitted against each other. And they do not have the time to realize it. They will not believe any of it unless their self appointed ruler tells them what to think.

No, there is little value in self research because in order for it to have any effect, there must be eyes to see it, and ears to hear it. And at present, they are all just too busy at the moment.

So do you think they can handle the truth of the UFO subject?

Originally posted by rand27Nobody is going to listen to the amateurs, but everyone will listen the Scientists that will be flocking to this topic.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Jacques Fabrice Vallée was Majic07

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
No, there is little value in self research because in order for it to have any effect, there must be eyes to see it, and ears to hear it. And at present, they are all just too busy at the moment.

A wise man once told me..."If I had just one pupil who truly understood my teachings, my life would be complete"

Yes it has value, even if only a handful hear your words

As with anything you may not be the "expert" but you may be the one to find the answers, and if you find truth no "expert" can refute the facts!

I would have to agree with The All Seeing Eye on how most of the world views the ufo phenomenon, but I do disagree on his view of amateur ufo researchers.We need all the help we can get in this field; because any help is always of value.

You must not expect to make this a job or even to expect any reward other then the experience its self. The only difference between an amateur and a professional is the fact that the professional gets paid.

If you enjoy doing it and it does not prevent you from your daily obligations, then I see noting wrong with researching this subject. I mean you never know, you could be the person who finds the smoking gun we need.

its not a matter of collecting information for others to ridicule or attempt debunking, because thats always the case. it only needs be collected for your personal enjoyment of the phenomena and your personal proof and witness.
it doesn't matter whether you or an expert collects and discloses the facts, because the powers that be will keep it and you suppressed with their tactics of propaganda, no one will ever come to grip with it unless it personally happens to them, and even that may not sway them in belief because they're brainwashed to believe the government or some narcissistic debunker .

explore it, document it, share it with believers and f#^%^&k everyone one else

There is a lack of real field-work and coordination. Searches for big-foot are better examples of what the UFO community should be doing - even at its most amateur level of a bunch of high-school kids stomping around in the woods with video cameras - there is the potential they could find something of value to study.

The problem with UFO 'research' is that it tends to lack this sort of organization and even dedication. Even early-on, the entire UFO/alien community tended to want to believe crackpot tales of being taken to Venus and Jupiter to play with the critters, there, as opposed to actually collect data. Even investigations into crashes and alleged historical events focus far too much on the testimonials and not enough on collecting data and hard evidence.

There could be huge value if sites like ATS were to use the power of the internet and the proliferation of video technology to set up monitoring stations around the nation. Computers can be put to work to look for anomalous activity (objects moving faster than the background, etc) and bring it to the attention of human observers. Having known locations of cameras and known bearings to the contacts - the potential exists to triangulate any unknown object using any two cameras and giving volumes of data to use in the event something truly extraordinary is captured on 'film.'

As for finding out about government involvement - well, you'd have to do some field-work and stake out suspect locations and see what kind of information you (and others) can gather. Anything of importance is not likely to be all that easy to observe by camping out just outside the fence, but... who knows. If the security team doesn't do their job, then they deserve whatever happens.

reply to post by rand27
I think there's value in amateurs researching UFOs. The whole field was founded by amateurs and to this day is driven by amateurs. A lot of professionals add weight to the subject (Dr Haines, Vallee, Teodarani, Randle etc), but are they adding any more value than amateurs?

Yes they are...sort of.

At the same time, do we know anything more than we did in 1955? The best scientific papers (by professionals) tend to conclude that we need more evidence. The best work of Vallee adds more confusion than we began with. Randle has a handful of guys that live to conflict with his ideas...more confusion etc etc.

I think for most people with an interest in this pile of crap mess, it's a personal journey. None of us are going to reason out the answer and if we did, it's unlikely we could prove it. The whole thing is sort of inevitably fruitless and yet we keep going over whatever information we can find. I know some folk are looking at the evidence to prove to themselves that UFOs are ET or simply explainable phenomena. Others are looking to prove to themselves that UFOs aren't ET...big distinction.

In my opinion, amateurs and professionals both add value to the subject. The 'value' appears to be a growing mountain of books, recordings, articles and waste paper with no conclusion in sight...

reply to post by Kandinsky

reply to post by Kandinsky

I know some folk are looking at the evidence to prove to themselves that UFOs are ET or simply explainable phenomena. Others are looking to prove to themselves that UFOs aren't ET...big distinction.

I try to look at each case independently to see what can be learned from it, without really trying to prove anything. Just trying to separate facts from perceptions. Is that approach invalid?

There's no value in anybody researching UFOs, because you only have to do it for about a day before you run into that huge brick wall called "NATIONAL SECURITY."

The way it works is you get a really interesting case where weird stuff happened, the farmers all tell the truth, and maybe even got a couple minutes of good video. Then you call up the Air Force base down the road and ask them if they had any Top Secret Black Project aircraft flying around last Tuesday night. "Why, no," they say. "We sure didn't."

And thus your investigation ends.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

reply to post by Kandinsky

 

I know some folk are looking at the evidence to prove to themselves that UFOs are ET or simply explainable phenomena. Others are looking to prove to themselves that UFOs aren't ET...big distinction.

I try to look at each case independently to see what can be learned from it, without really trying to prove anything. Just trying to separate facts from perceptions. Is that approach invalid?

edit on 9/23/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

What can I say? Everyone has their own approach.

Yes there is.
I can only trust myself, and not on a regular basis!

Who are you must likely to believe in?
I do not wish to make money out of any of my experiences, I will never seek fame nor fortune, they are out there, and in here, all one really needs to do is to get the rust out of the armor and the cobwebs form our will and find them.

They wont come to your living room, they wont knock on your door, most of them don't even think we are any special, and then, they do, the strangest things.

I thank some for pointing the way, but most Para celebrities are mere tools of the unblinking ones, most of the material is crap, less than 5% is the real deal, but that is changing as we speak, it wont take long, some of these days we will be surprised like we have never been before, it will be taken by any one of us, your kid on his cellphone, or you on vacation, we will all get a slice, you'll see...

BTW, thanks to all that share just to spread the word and open the eyes of the slumbering lions...

Originally posted by Blue ShiftThen you call up the Air Force base down the road and ask them if they had any Top Secret Black Project aircraft flying around last Tuesday night. "Why, no," they say. "We sure didn't."

You just haven't been calling the right numbers You can actually ask some of em right here at ATS...

err names? errr well you will have to read some posts a little better

I hear that Palmdale is a good area to spot some invisible planes

reply to post by rand27

There is value in researching ufos. Why anybody would want to research them without actually being contacted/flown over is a bit of a mystery. Before my first experience I would have laughed if somebody had said that ufos are real! I have so much admiration for fellow researchers who pursue this topic without actually having experienced ufos, these people are the real open minded types

For me it comes down to this, who's listening...

That's the real problem, all these poor amateur people like me pouring over things that get posted and responses just ignored, it's water off a ducks back as for me ATS is a place I can discuss my interests so I don't have to concentrate of the pain and ilness I suffer from. It's not so important if I get a reply or not, it's passed my time.

But you have to feel sorry for all the guys willing to do the most basic field work or above and then no one listens to them because they are not part of a clique or that others will await the more known people to make their 'pronouncement' on the case.

Sorry people but you need to listen and read an entire thread, not skipping posts by people whose name you don't recognise. You know, occasionally us little folk actually do find out stuff and point to them.

Do I think amateur investigators have a use?

(who cares, no one will read this )

Well actually I do think they have a use, as long as they understand how to collate their knowledge and post it in a clear manner then yes, every little grey cell, every little freedom of information request counts etc etc etc.

I went on to look at a certain site that has spammed here just to see if they had anything to offer and the answer was no, every person was shot down if they were not in the know, people could post if they posted in a way acceptable to the wolf pack.

Never let that happen here...

reply to post by rand27


First I must point out that any argument which begins with a generalisation can usualy be found to be horrificaly flawed.
Its true that there is no value in the work of people who form opinions before a cases evidence has been examined. In all investigative endevour, allowing ones wishes and hopes to skew ones ability to read the evidence is a cardinal sin, a mistake so complete as to render even the most detailed works to dust.
However, that sort of thinking does not apply to everyone in the field, and I would go as far to say, does not make up the majority of those in the field. Many are just looking for answers to thier questions. The motivations for the people who do this work are many fold, and to throw the umbrella of foolishness and illogic over all of them does you as little credit, as the close minded hippy "aliens are god and here on earth" nuts inability to be impartial does them.
I know for instance that there are those in the ufo investigation community who do what they do because they hate when the government lies to the taxpayer. They do not have any particular wish or hope about what is out there, but they insist on the truth , and seek to expose lies at all turns, a laudable goal if ever there was one.
That is just one example of the myriad motivations of those who seek . I believe that the problem with perception of the field comes from those who give it a bad name. The ones who do the real work , well... you will never hear thier names , they dont make youtube videos, and often they would rather be left in obscurity, so they can work without harrassment.

reply to post by rand27


Nobody is born an expert in anything, every UFO investigator has to begin somewhere and even someone who has never tried to investigate before and tries can reveal important observations.

You first need to have the will and determination to go out and stand in the freezing cold, if you can do that then your an important part of what you do, something many are unwilling to even contemplate, and even though they are unwilling to go and watch and wait, they act like experts.

So which has more value? someone who sits at their desk, or someone who actually goes out and do the work?

I would take the word of anyone willing to go out over a desk jockey who has already made up their mind one way or another.

So I do believe determined amateurs in all fields have value,a lot more value than watching youtube video's and making a judgement, there is nothing like seeing it for yourself, and once you do, no matter what others say, that belongs to you, and it can never be taken away.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc


(who cares, no one will read this

)


Never let that happen here...

Sorry, don't know what you said. I didn't read your post.

As for the UFOs. You should just look up once in a while. You might see some if you are patient. You might even catch a ship leaving the moon one of these nights.

So far I see no value in any UFO source reckoning except for having your own
opinions on the topic.
People are writing about UFOs every day on youtube and ATS and other places
so join the wave.
No value other than that so far.