Dieting and Exercise Aren't Effective Fat Loss Tools

reply to post by raivo


Thanks for not reading my post.

Dieting and exercising to maintain a caloric deficit doesn't work. Eating healthily and exercising properly can and does influence body fat mass positively through their influences on insulin and insulin sensitivity.

reply to post by jpkmets


Thank you!

I have PCOS and I am fed up with people saying that obesity is caused by laziness/overeating. These are symptoms of ilnesses, which often gets overlooked and we are all tainted by the lazy/fat/overeater brush. As most of these illnesses are congenital (present from birth) and can only be controlled its not my fault I am fat!! ALso with PCOS both parents can pass this on, so I am sure this is a growing illness which may account for the rise in obesity!

I am one of the lucky ones though and do not have excessive symptoms and have not as yet developed diabetes or any other the other major ilnesses.

Some more ilnesses which CAUSE obesity:

Cushing’s Syndrome is Caused by Increased Cortisol Levels
Hypothyroidism Slows Down Metabolism (underactive thyroid)
Insulin Resistance Can Cause Diabetes
Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome Causes Weight Gain

Link

I have to take prednisone. It's a hormone.

I know that when I first went on it, I did not change my eating and I gained 40 pounds in 3 weeks.
I would not even have thought that was humanly possible.

A lot of pollutants like BPAs mess up your hormone regulation.
I wonder if the western world isn't having an epidemic of pollution that is causing an epidemic of obesity.

Insulin resistant, hyperinsulinemic, syndrome X, metabolic syndrome, Reaven's syndrome. CHAOS(in Australia)whatever you want to call it is a autoimmune disease.

It damages the cells ability to use insulin in two ways ether the insulin does not bind to the damaged cell receptors allowing them to use Glucose. or the insulin molecules are malformed so that they do not bind to the receptors.
This has been linked to fibromyalgia and CFS as the cells are unable to use insulin to make energy to power the muscles The muscles become atrophied and/or painful due to lack of glucose and insulin to feed them.
This also can damage nerves causing pain. (neuropathy)
This weakness can not be overcome by exercise as this drains even more glucose from them.
and the body does not need this glucose and insulin mix to convert glucose to fat. the liver can make fat from glucose without insulin.
so when the insulin and glucose is not used by the muscles the liver turns the glucose to fat and the insulin levels rise but the muscles and other organs need more energy so they call for more glucose and insulin they can not use. this makes you crave carbs. you then get overweight and your pancreas pumps out so much insulin the insulin cells in it burn out or are damaged and you no longer make insulin or insulin that is usable.
If you try exercise the muscles will be damaged because of the lack of Glucose.
Body builders build muscles by carb loading this normally supplies the needed Glucose and without insulin they could not build muscles.

Since it takes 2 to 5 years for someone with fibromyalgia or CFS to get DXed and even longer to find a doctor to treat it effectively(pain control) its to late to reverse the problem because by that time the person is to cell damaged by the metabolic syndrome.
Also many doctors want people with fibromyalgia and/or CFS to start a exercise program without pain control or treating the insulin resistant, hyperinsulinemic, syndrome X, metabolic syndrome. this just damages the muscles more and finely puts a stop to any exercise program.
Add to that the fact that many of these people have other autoimmune disorders that cripple them plus many have sleep apnea from the muscle or nerve damage of these other disorders

Many components of metabolic syndrome are associated with a sedentary lifestyle, including increased adipose tissue (predominantly central); reduced HDL cholesterol; and a trend toward increased triglycerides, blood pressure, and glucose in the genetically susceptible. Compared with individuals who watched television or videos or used their computer for less than one hour daily, those that carried out these behaviors for greater than four hours daily have a twofold increased risk of metabolic syndrome.

en.wikipedia.org...

I had this start even though i worked 10 hours a day as a hard rock gold miner drilling blasting and moving 20 tons of rock a day in a track type mine. plus being a volunteer firefighter/EMT in my off time.(2002)
that is not a sedentary lifestyle. i was 200 pounds of muscle.(BMI 18 to 24)
Then i was hit with a painful muscle disorder 4 years later DXed as fibromyalgia.
I tried to continue to work for another 14 months(gaining weight all the time even though i did not slow down

Then during the time the doctors were trying to find the cause of the muscle pain and weight gain they did a CT scan to check for paraneoplastic syndrome. instead they found tumors in my chest and found sarcoidosis.(2003) a auto immune disorder linked to a few occupations. one being firefighters/EMT

Within another three years they had finely DXed fibromyalgia , Neurosarcoidosis, Metabolic syndrome, Sleep Apnea from the neurological disorders and i had a heart attack with a 5 way bypass. and my weight is up to 280 pounds and i have lost the muscle mass and replaced it with the fat.(2006)
This is while on a less then 100 g of carb a day diet.(since 2003) (a normal diet is 300g carbs a day=2000 calories)
all this does is hold my weight at 280.
and because i am now a diabetic (2008) I can not go lower or Carb free. i have to hold my Carb intake at 100g to keep from going into hypoglycemia
Exercise is out of the question (extreme pain and hypoglycemia)and my doctors now look at the weight of 200 pounds before I became disabled, as fat not muscle because only the weight was listed on my chart but not body type. If the doctor had listed that i had a bodybuilders type body back before this started i would be able to communicate that the autoimmune disorders caused all this, not me being out of shape, over weight, or lazy.

Any researcher looking at my chart would blame everything on weight even though the fat weight came later after the other problems.
They would believe that the fat weight caused the autoimmune disorder when it was the opposite the autoimmune disorders caused the weight gain.

One strange thing i have found on one men's fibromyalgia website i am on is that over 50% of the men there were weightlifters. runners. or did other sports and were in very good shape when hit by fibromyalgia.
But by the time the doctors had DXed the fibromyalgia 3 to 5 years later the doctors blamed the fibromyalgia on them being out of shape. They were out of shape by then because they were not treated for the debilitating pain and other disorders like sleep apnea cause by the fibromyalgia.
Doctors only see what they want to see(or what they are told to see) and disbelieve what the parson they are treating tells them.

Originally posted by ANNED
One strange thing i have found on one men's fibromyalgia website i am on is that over 50% of the men there were weightlifters. runners. or did other sports and were in very good shape when hit by fibromyalgia.
But by the time the doctors had DXed the fibromyalgia 3 to 5 years later the doctors blamed the fibromyalgia on them being out of shape. They were out of shape by then because they were not treated for the debilitating pain and other disorders like sleep apnea cause by the fibromyalgia.
Doctors only see what they want to see(or what they are told to see) and disbelieve what the parson they are treating tells them.

As you mentioned CFS earlier in your post i hope you don't mind me chiming in as it is the condition i suffer from. Happiily i don't suffer from metabolic syndrome and have managed to keep my weight healthy, however i was just like you, incredibly active. Martial arts nearly every day of the week, moderate weight lifting, heavy cycling and various other bits and pieces, including intensive circuit training regimes.

Sadly i lost all the muscle i had and like you when doctors who were new to my case saw me after 3 years of inactivity they thought i was simply lazy. It's not just doctors who see what they want to see, it's people in general i'm afraid. Still i got that diagnosis in the end.

Good luck with your condition man.

I would like to thank devolutionevolve for his post. It makes sense and i'll try the method you shared. Devol is sharing some knowledge for the purpose of helping others. He is not endorsing some product he has developed. I realise we can debate in here but throughout the forums, members, in my opinion, get attacked for thinking differently. Lets keep it peaceful hey?

Interesting read, but what about the people in this 1905 video?

I dont see any fatties in it?

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Same old from you kind of people. You eat too much, you get fat and then instead of doing something about it, you sit around all day wallowing in your own self pitty making excuses!

If a good exercise regime and a good diet is utilized then weight can be controlled, its just some people can not be bothered to put the effort in!

Eating less is the only way to weight loss - and that is logical.

If you exercise, you burn more calories obviously, but cutting down meal sizes is the key.

Also, not eating when you are not hungry, even if it seems to be meal time.

reply to post by catwhoknows


If your talking about cutting calories without the exercise then you are wrong. Sure, any type of diet will work 'short term' but eventually your body will adjust itself the metabolism will slow and you will find you need to eat even less to maintain weight loss.

If you are 30+ the effects are more obvious. The average 30+ person who does no resistance training will lose between 4-5% lean mass every year after this age. A 189 pound person with 25% BF has 141.75 lb lean mass this lean mass will burn on average 850.5 calories daily! The next year the same person will only burn 807 calories if this muscle mass is not retained through exercise. This is the reason why dieting alone will not maintain a weight!

Us humans need physical activity its as simple as that!

reply to post by essxjay


"He is not endorsing some product he has developed"

If you are referring to me, I am a mortician by trade and simply decided to use my knowledge to help people while they are still alive. It is actually in my best interest not to help anyone. And on top of that I do not charge for my services to morbidly obese people whom I train and am trying to save.

Enabling people with excuses does hurt the cause. And it makes our goals that much harder.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


I haven't read the whole thread but I don't need to...

To gain weight: Consume more calories than you burn off each day

To lose weight: Burn more calories than you consume each day

It's easy

Source: Myself, as I used to bodybuild and was a keen martial artist/boxer.


Edit to add: A diet isn't what people the majority of people believe. You don't "go on a diet", you change your eating habbits.

Obviously if you avoid fast foods/junk for a a short time period, you will lose weight. As soon as you start eating them again you'll put the weight back on.

I honestly don't know why people find the process of gaining or losing weight so difficult!

I'm confused

If Obesity is not caused by overeating then how come there is a direct historic correlation between the amount of calories consumed at a point in time and the obesity rate at that time?

From 1971 to 2000, obesity rates in the United States increased from 14.5% to 30.9%.[73] During the same period, an increase occurred in the average amount of calories consumed. For women, the average increase was 335 calories per day (1,542 calories in 1971 and 1,877 calories in 2004), while for men the average increase was 168 calories per day (2,450 calories in 1971 and 2,618 calories in 2004).

and how come this particular genetic disease was virtually unheard of within the mass population a hundred years ago when food was scarce? and how come in less developed countries right now where food is still a luxury is the disease of obesity still virtually unknown?

How come this chart that shows obesity rates in different countries, matches more or less exactly with thismap of countries sorted by calorie intake?

If bread is so good at making you obese how come when people more or less lived on bread alone like medieval peasants that obesity was not a problem?
This describes the medieval diet

Cereals remained the most important staples during the early Middle Ages, as rice was a late introduction to Europe and the potato was only introduced in 1536 with a much later date for widespread usage. Barley, oat and rye among the poor, and wheat for the governing classes, were eaten as bread, porridge, gruel and pasta by all members of society

reply to post by davespanners


I wouldn't be confused, that description should be left for the OP.

Of course over eating causes Obesity!

If I started to have my breakfast at McDonalds, my dinner at KFC and my tea at Burger King then I'm pretty sure I'd be significantly heavier in a few weeks time...

Originally posted by catwhoknows
Eating less is the only way to weight loss - and that is logical.

If you exercise, you burn more calories obviously, but cutting down meal sizes is the key.

Also, not eating when you are not hungry, even if it seems to be meal time.

I agree. Ive been trying to lose some weight the last 6 mths or so and lost about 9kg. I was 95kg at my heaviest then dropped to 87kg, then dropped to 79kg when I had a change of lifestyle about 6 mths ago. This change included a major change in diet & regular gym work. I slackened off a bit recently, for a short while, and put 3kg back on. Ive gone back to my diet and gym and in a short time Ive started to drop the weight again. So for me, losing weight is simply a change of lifestyle. All I've done is make a decision to become more active and cut out rubbish food...

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

Fat deposition is INDEPENDENT of caloric intake.

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Your thread is interesting to me, however you make a lot of assumptions and say a lot of things that are highly questionable, if not flat-out incorrect. The above quote being one example.

I am very conscious of what I put in my body, and I personally have been on a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (High fat, low/no carbs, with occasional carbohydrate 're-feeds') for almost one year. I understand that one of the reasons this eating plan works so well is because it keeps insulin levels extremely low (as well as forcing the body to use fat for fuel). HOWEVER, that being said, if I were to suddenly increase the calories I am consuming to above the level that I am burning them, my body would of course store (what it could not use for energy) fat, regardless of the fact that my body is producing almost no insulin.

Of course there are other factors involved besides calories in Vs. calories out when it comes to adipose tissue retention, but in the end, that is the PRIMARY factor. To say otherwise is simply wrong.

You should read some bodybuilding forums if you really want to educate yourself. In bodybuilding, it's common to cycle between high calorie (meaning a caloric surplus, as in MORE calories than you are burning) 'bulking' periods in order to put on muscle (which also puts on fat), and then switch to low calorie (meaning a caloric deficit) 'cutting' diets in order to loose the fat gained, while attempting to keep muscle loss to a minimum.

Of course, if you stay on a low-calorie diet too long, or cut calories too drastically, your metabolism will slow down. That's why periodically eating a huge meal, or occasionally bringing yourself out of a low-calorie diet is indeed helpful because it increases your metabolism. Also, MUSCLE itself actually burns calories, so having more muscle increases your Basal Metabolic Rate.

Bodybuilders also eat high-GI carbs before, after and during their workouts. They literally eat pure sugar (dextrose/glucose), in order to purposefully give themselves an insulin spike, which, as you have described correctly, causes the body to store nutrients. In the case of weightlifting, this is a good thing, because your body uses the insulin to help move protein and glucose into the muscles, which helps them recover and grow more quickly and efficiently.

Also,another thing you forgot to mention (I think) is that high body-fat levels in men REDUCE endogenous testosterone production, which is not good for business.

In conclusion, I think you presented a lot of valid and important information, but the conclusions you then came to are completely misguided for the most part. Being conscious of the AMOUNT as well as the TYPE of foods you are eating - that is BY FAR the most influential factor when it comes to body composition.

As one final note, the meaning of the word 'diet' has become completely misused. Your 'diet' is simply what you eat, so of course we are all on a 'diet'. Whether or not our diet consists of a caloric surplus, or a caloric deficit is another matter. When people say they are 'going on a diet', what they really mean is 'I'm going to introduce a caloric deficit into my eating plan with the desired outcome of losing adipose tissue deposits while retaining lean body mass'. You never go 'on' or 'off' a diet, you just modify your eating plan.

I have been attempting to self cure CFS for 2 years.
I abandoned my doctor because he said all my symptoms were 'old age' (I am 67)
I am well versed in the principles of healthy eating/living, and implement them.
...organic food
...filtered water
...no trans fats
...no processed food
...no synthetic toiletries or cleaning products
...I don't own a microwave oven
...I even filter the indoor air I breathe.

I am aware that even organic food has fewer nutrients than 50 years ago, so I do use food supplements. Because I am retired, I can eat when I'm hungry and sleep when I am tired, and have ZERO stress.

I experienced a gradual weight gain of 28lbs during the past two years, all of it on my waist and belly.
The healthy lifestyle I have rigourously adhered to for 2 years lacked only excercise - because I did not have enough energy to do any (any CFS sufferer knows what I mean).

I have had my energy levels increase by good nutrition, but by far the biggest boost was DETOX.
The detox Herxheimer reaction revealed to me the true cause of my ill health - systemic CANDIDA overgrowth.

For the past month I have followed a diet designed to starve candida, and have used herbal fungal killers and the weight is rolling off.

There was a mention earlier of 'Ketogenic Diet' and Atkins diet - mine is very similar in many respects -
My already healthy diet has been further refined by -
....total elimination of all sugars - even honey, milk and fruit!
....total elimination of all yeast - no bread, wine, spirits, vinegars, and all products which have yeast in their manufacture (that includes some food supplements)
....very restricted intake of carbs - green veg OK, but potatoes and carrots NO
.... no mushrooms and cheese (other than cottage cheese)
.....eating lots of live/active plain yogurt (lactose has been drastically reduced by the ferment process)

The result is a diet comprising mainly of organic meat and fish home cooked, free range eggs, lots of green veg/salad. Grains have to be whole grains and the intake limited.
For fats I use butter and olive oil as usual, but have added coconut oil as a natural fungicide.

So this is a high protein diet. I have lost 4lbs in the past week despite still being very 'sedentary'

I feel sure that more people have parasitic fungal overgrowth without realising it.
The main causes are - antibiotics and birth control pills (incl HRT)
...and most of us have used one of them at some time.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


It would seem, then, that following the Candida Diet would serve the purpose of not only causing some weight loss, but also cleaning the body of Candida as it usually resides in just the type of body you're talking about. People who crave sugars, carbs, etc. usually have Candida. So, kill two birds with one stone by doing the Candida Diet.

Very informative. Thanks for posting!

while your thread is interesting, not all things apply to everyone.

not eating as much will lead to loss and then regain because metabolism slows down. Metabolism is like a fire, if the fire is small and you throw a bunch of big logs on it, it takes a long time to burn (not eating all day and then eating a big dinner for example), but if you put a few smaller size logs on it constantly it will burn with ease (5 small meals a day)

combine that with eating HEALTHIER (not eating less), celery instead of potato chips for example, you will lose weight. Exercise is a must also to keep the metabolism up. If you're hungry you need to eat something, not just sit around starving all day.

none of this works overnight and most people quit before they see real results or slip back to their old ways, you really have to change your way of life. I have went from 230 lbs to 170 lbs by eating healthier and exercising alone, and have kept it off for over a year even though I cant lift weights anymore, I play disc golf all the time and go for walks during lunch, and still eat healthy.

So the old ways definitely work if done correctly, however not for everyone as some people really do have hormone problems.

You can exercise for an hour with intense running, burn 700 calories, and have some fast food with 1000 calories in it. So diet is important. Most would agree that diet is a bigger part than exercise, seeing as how most people eat from morning until evening, but an hour of exercise a day and really can't do much more reasonably.

I think people forget that they can exercise multiple times a day, for 10-15 minutes. Do your workout quick, and once you get fatigued, stop and wait a couple hours. Not like you can burn that many calories when you've hit that point of exhaustion. Exercising multiple times a day also keeps your metabolism up since it takes a while for the body to return to normal metabolism. High intensity interval training sounds like it's the best method in some ways for weight loss and general fitness but it really can beat the crap out of you more than running at a constant speed. It's tricky I suppose since it's been shown that high intensity exercise can trigger hunger while moderate and light exercise suppresses it.

Eating whole foods is important too, for weight loss and for health. No added sugar either since your body won't be burning fat as much if it has access to sugar.