Extra-Terrestrial Installation in Dulce, New Mexico

Originally posted by MarbledRye
Northern New Mexico is really strange country that has a lot of secrets, it's hard to explain without sounding like a lunatic, but with the Indian vibe and presence there is a very strange sense for visitors, you distinctly feel weird and compelled not to stick around. I'm "tuned-in" and I feel uneasy there, I just don't like it, it's beautiful, but there is a dialogue going on in the energies there that makes me unpleasantly anxious. Just from my own perspective, I could see why it would be an excellent place to conduct unusual operations, it's atypical and alarming while remaining very still and beautiful at the same time.

First-hand I can tell you that there is certainly some interesting activity going on with the government that sparked my interest in the area. My most recent bizarre experience occurred a few months ago when I was driving on I-25 north of Sante Fe and south of Las Vegas. I-25 is the only real major arterial interstate route that would serve both Los Alamos and Dulce (if it's real). There were eight or nine vehicles in an apparent convoy that were completely black with no markings whatsoever but they all had government plates. A few were armored trucks (like what you see at the bank) and delivery trucks (like UPS) but they had no windows and the cab windows were totally blacked out. They were following two large cargo vans (also with blacked out windows) and in the lead were two suburbans. What was so bizarre was that as I got to one of the suburbans, I was able to see the driver through the tinted window because the sunlight was just right. He was wearing a black uniform and had an earbud in (like the secret service) and I was struck by how strange it was. I see a lot of military and government vehicles on I-25, but I had never seen anything like this convoy or its driver before. When I got home I tried to figure out who they were, but I never found an exact match. I'm not one to always jump to the most exciting and irrational conclusion, but I was really awestruck by how bizarre and mysterious it was. I didn't get any photos because I wasn't aware that what I was seeing was unique and couldn't be easily found on the internet with an explanation.

The more I've looked into this theory about Dulce/Los Alamos, the more unnerved I get. I don't see any sources beyond the two that are the most commonly quoted, Schneider and Costello, so I really don't conclude that they are telling the truth, but I definitely believe that there are some serious secrets in the mountains of northern New Mexico. I've spent a lot of time out at White Sands and have driven by NORAD many, many times and never saw such nefarious looking vehicles.

I've thought a lot about the possibility of secret bases, and for what it's worth, if I were ever an employee or service member assigned to a project that dealt with extra-terrestrials, I would be so honored to be entrusted with the privilege of being associated with a project of that magnitude that it is highly unlikely that I would share any insider information with the outside world. I do not believe that the general public has the intelligence and rationale to be able to handle the gravity of such a revelation and believe society would descend into complete hysteria and chaos. Even IF the government knows anything, I would never expect disclosure to the general public. People are just too dumb, and that's not meant to be insulting, it's just a cold, hard fact. We are still very primitive and emotional and both of those aid in being an unreasonable animal when reason is required.

We as a people are much better off emotionally to speculate that it's rumor and likely false than try and digest the possibility that it could all be real, I know I'd crumble into a heap of terror if there's ever a complete disclosure of E.T. Event/Contact, but I cannot deny that there is some disturbingly weird stuff going on that I almost appreciate being so bizarre that I can try and pretend to ignore (i.e- this youtube video compilation of the best UFO news of the year: youtu.be... )

I am terrified of the truth.

The only terror in the "Dulce Story" is the epistemological rape of logic necessary to perpetuate a myth. .

reply to post by RKWWWW


If it were a myth, you wouldn't have a real murder of Schneider, you wouldn't have others who are not lying, some of them never to be heard of again, and I'm talking about the few credible people, not conspiracists.

There is Area 51, there is Los Alamos Lab, there is a bunker hidden under a hotel and no one even suspected anything, why would there not be Dulce base, why did they choose this place specifically, why not the conspiracy in Area 51 or otehr place? Why Dulce? Because there must be something from all that is said...

Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by RKWWWW

 

If it were a myth, you wouldn't have a real murder of Schneider, you wouldn't have others who are not lying, some of them never to be heard of again, and I'm talking about the few credible people, not conspiracists.

There is Area 51, there is Los Alamos Lab, there is a bunker hidden under a hotel and no one even suspected anything, why would there not be Dulce base, why did they choose this place specifically, why not the conspiracy in Area 51 or otehr place? Why Dulce? Because there must be something from all that is said...

No evidence exists to prove the existence of a base under Dulce. To say the Dulce base exists simply because the other installations you mentioned exist is absurd.

Originally posted by Violater1
Again, I think that there is something to this place, but it was very quiet when we went to Dulce.

So how far away from the actual town of Dulce are you looking for this base?

Kirtland New Mexico is 221 miles away from Kirtland AFB Just an FYI

Originally posted by RKWWWW

No evidence exists to prove the existence of a base under Dulce. To say the Dulce base exists simply because the other installations you mentioned exist is absurd.

The lack of evidence for the public is not a proof of non-existence when there are things to suggest it could be. I'd say it is possible, not that it can be said for sure with the current material. You cannot be sure it doesn't exist, either.

Originally posted by Imtor

Originally posted by RKWWWW

No evidence exists to prove the existence of a base under Dulce. To say the Dulce base exists simply because the other installations you mentioned exist is absurd.

The lack of evidence for the public is not a proof of non-existence when there are things to suggest it could be. I'd say it is possible, not that it can be said for sure with the current material. You cannot be sure it doesn't exist, either.

edit on 15-11-2011 by Imtor because: (no reason given)

The lack of evidence that something doesn't exist is not evidence that it does exist. That is a common logical fallacy known as "argumentum ad ignorantiam".

From wiki:

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

Argument from ignorance may be used as a rationalization by a person who realizes that he has no reason for holding the belief that he does.

The fallaciousness of arguments from ignorance does not mean that one can never possess good reasons for thinking that something does not exist, an idea captured by philosopher Bertrand Russell's teapot, a hypothetical china teapot revolving about the sun between Earth and Mars; however this would fall more duly under the arena of pragmatism, wherein a position must be demonstrated or proven in order to be upheld, and therefore the burden of proof is on the argument's proponent.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by RKWWWW


Thanks for bringing the different types of opinions, I think it summarizes all that I'm often trying ton say on ATS about what I think and it is presented in these 4 choices.

I never followed the path 'If something is not proven false, it exists', I do not believe the Magical Faerie exists because no one proved it does not, I do not believe the Earth is an alien spaceship as some idiot stated on the other forum even though no scientist has denied it. This is a very wrong method to say something must exist because it is not proven otherwise. I should have used other phrases as this was not my point.

My choice is rather 3), I have always been between - partially true, partially false, think some cases and theories are true, be skeptic about the rest.

Dulce is not the case of the magical faerie where you believe it just like that, if you have seen all the information about such base from Schneider, Castello, some other employess like Benewitz, this is a matter of basing your opion and what is known about it. Considering the murder of Schneider, the secrecy around all UFO, the released information about Dulce base (which is not enouhg to prove it for sure), YOU CANNOT DENY its existence.

So by staying in between, I neither think of it as a fact, nor do I deny it as a fact. Some think that believing in ET is all about believing the non-existent when this is based on all that is going on, documents, secrecy, lies, this is not like the example of the Magical Faerie that I gave 'I believe even if I know nothing about it'

I understand that the proof of Dulce base and ETs is not enough, that's why I dont jump and say 'aliens' at the first object I see but in order for all this paper to exist, you cannot be sure it doesn't exist just like you cannot be sure it exists. It is all based on the material, not on plain belief

Originally posted by Imtor
[You cannot be sure it doesn't exist, either.

It is certainly impossible for me to conclusively prove that monkeys did not actually fly out of your butt. I have no evidence in that regard, and there's always the very remote possibility that some kind of small simian (or maybe a model of the same) did indeed fly out of your butt.

reply to post by RKWWWW


Sorry but dont use wiki as a source

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Imtor
[You cannot be sure it doesn't exist, either.

It is certainly impossible for me to conclusively prove that monkeys did not actually fly out of your butt. I have no evidence in that regard, and there's always the very remote possibility that some kind of small simian (or maybe a model of the same) did indeed fly out of your butt.

What a retarded example...This is not a matter of belief on something you've never even have the slightest clue or trace it exists

it is based on

documents/former empoyees' information

Since making it in bold didn't make it clear, and again Im not saying it is certain but based on what is out there about it, you cannot conclude it is not. Damn ignorace could go both ways - as if you know if it exists or not, 'It doesn't cause I 'know' (Nothing), because I believe so, I've been there (NOT/I didn't see anything on the surface with shiny Christmas Lights saying DULCE BASE) so Im SURE (right on!) it doesn't exist cause I have Pro Opinion.

Shut up with your certainty of something you don't know when there are people who say otherwise and have been much into such secret bases

Originally posted by Imtor
it is based on documents/former empoyees' information

wrong, it is based on a claim by someone who says they are a former employee, with no valid documentation

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Imtor

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Imtor
[You cannot be sure it doesn't exist, either.

It is certainly impossible for me to conclusively prove that monkeys did not actually fly out of your butt. I have no evidence in that regard, and there's always the very remote possibility that some kind of small simian (or maybe a model of the same) did indeed fly out of your butt.

What a retarded example...This is not a matter of belief on something you've never even have the slightest clue or trace it exists

it is based on

documents/former empoyees' information

Since making it in bold didn't make it clear, and again Im not saying it is certain but based on what is out there about it, you cannot conclude it is not. Damn ignorace could go both ways - as if you know if it exists or not, 'It doesn't cause I 'know' (Nothing), because I believe so, I've been there (NOT/I didn't see anything on the surface with shiny Christmas Lights saying DULCE BASE) so Im SURE (right on!) it doesn't exist cause I have Pro Opinion.

Shut up with your certainty of something you don't know when there are people who say otherwise and have been much into such secret bases

edit on 16-11-2011 by Imtor because: (no reason given)

Legitimate proof would be a sworn statement or deposition from someone who claims to be a former employee, otherwise it's hearsay.

Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by RKWWWW

 

If it were a myth, you wouldn't have a real murder of Schneider, you wouldn't have others who are not lying, some of them never to be heard of again, and I'm talking about the few credible people, not conspiracists.
.

1) Schneider had a monetary incentive to lie. He was a paid lecturer. In fact, basically speaking, the way the lecture circuit works is, the bigger the whoppers, the bigger the fee.

2) The official ruling of Schneider's death was suicide. I find it revealing that you don't have the integrity to call his death a "possible murder" or to add any modifier at all.

Originally posted by MarbledRye


First-hand I can tell you that there is certainly some interesting activity going on with the government that sparked my interest in the area. My most recent bizarre experience occurred a few months ago when I was driving on I-25 north of Sante Fe and south of Las Vegas. I-25 is the only real major arterial interstate route that would serve both Los Alamos and Dulce (if it's real). There were eight or nine vehicles in an apparent convoy that were completely black with no markings whatsoever but they all had government plates. A few were armored trucks (like what you see at the bank) and delivery trucks (like UPS) but they had no windows and the cab windows were totally blacked out. They were following two large cargo vans (also with blacked out windows) and in the lead were two suburbans. What was so bizarre was that as I got to one of the suburbans, I was able to see the driver through the tinted window because the sunlight was just right. He was wearing a black uniform and had an earbud in (like the secret service) and I was struck by how strange it was. I see a lot of military and government vehicles on I-25, but I had never seen anything like this convoy or its driver before. When I got home I tried to figure out who they were, but I never found an exact match. I'm not one to always jump to the most exciting and irrational conclusion, but I was really awestruck by how bizarre and mysterious it was. I didn't get any photos because I wasn't aware that what I was seeing was unique and couldn't be easily found on the internet with an explanation.

Given the location, sounds very much like a Department of Energy Office of Secure Transportation shipment.

It is government, but it it is not exactly military.

fmt.kcp.com...

fmt.kcp.com...

This is how either special nuclear materials or classified equipment is transported.

So much time is being spent trying to debunk all of this. This makes me believe there is actually some truth in this subject. Thanks disinfo agents! LULZ

Originally posted by hesse
So much time is being spent trying to debunk all of this. This makes me believe there is actually some truth in this subject. Thanks disinfo agents!

LULZ

Very little time is being spent on this thread to "debunk", however there is significant time being spent trying to get those who claim there is something going on in Dulce to furnish some sort of legitimate proof and/or actual evidence for their claims. And it isn't just laziness on the part of the "Dulce-cees" (thought that's a factor), they fail to recognize the burden of proof incumbent on them to support their fantastic stories. They want a free pass. Apparently their childish position is "I don't have to prove it, you have to disprove it".

COME ON Dulce-cees! Give us SOME LEGIT EVIDENCE! Imtor, get in here give us something.

Originally posted by MarbledRye

First-hand I can tell you that there is certainly some interesting activity going on with the government that sparked my interest in the area. My most recent bizarre experience occurred a few months ago when I was driving on I-25 north of Sante Fe and south of Las Vegas. I-25 is the only real major arterial interstate route that would serve both Los Alamos and Dulce (if it's real). There were eight or nine vehicles in an apparent convoy that were completely black with no markings whatsoever but they all had government plates. A few were armored trucks (like what you see at the bank) and delivery trucks (like UPS) but they had no windows and the cab windows were totally blacked out. They were following two large cargo vans (also with blacked out windows) and in the lead were two suburbans. What was so bizarre was that as I got to one of the suburbans, I was able to see the driver through the tinted window because the sunlight was just right. He was wearing a black uniform and had an earbud in (like the secret service) and I was struck by how strange it was. I see a lot of military and government vehicles on I-25, but I had never seen anything like this convoy or its driver before. When I got home I tried to figure out who they were, but I never found an exact match. I'm not one to always jump to the most exciting and irrational conclusion, but I was really awestruck by how bizarre and mysterious it was. I didn't get any photos because I wasn't aware that what I was seeing was unique and couldn't be easily found on the internet with an explanation.

I am terrified of the truth.

There is a butt-load of known military installations in NM that are served by I-25. Cannon, Hollomon, Kirtland, White Sands, Sandia, etc., but you see a military convoy and immediately think of small town baselessly rumored to be an underground military base? I agree, you are terrified of the truth. Challenged too.

reply to post by RKWWWW



Well I understand what you mean. Thats the nature of a lot of topic here on ATS, their is no real proof, if there was you would see it on the MSM. I read most of what is written about dulce, it sounds pretty freaky, but hey, where there's smoke there's fire!!

I just try to keep an open mind. Thats the reason I come here, to read about this stuff and judge for myself.

Just my 2 cents

reply to post by RKWWWW


What makes you think that just because you dont have proof of a base that was mentioned by employees even if what they said cannot be confirmed, so what makes you think it is certain it doesnt exist? There could be just like Los Alamos a normal base free of the things Castello said.

And why would someone whether under the real or fake name 'Thomas Castello' hide himself, to sound more credible in the lie !?

Extraordinary proof, WOW, so if we go by that logic one has to deny the existence of high power/ high tech militarycraft because you've never seen any proof of it? Well good luck getting one from secret facilities haha,

And you know I dont claim it certain that it exists, I just put it under the same flag as those black projects. Dulce base has the exact same possibility as any of them. Now go deny the projects too because you dont have the papers on it and say they dont exist...