The Civil War inside me

I know I am known around ATS as the Liberal Commentator and everyone can rely on me to give the Liberal/Progressive spin on American politics. But little do people know that I am fighting a Civil War inside my mind with two very powerful opponents, each winning on occasion but one almost always winning over the other.

I think to myself upon these complex thoughts and emotions about which side is truly better to form my final opinion on, to lay out my official groundwork in unanimous support for. It has torn at my mind, playing a war in every section of socio-political thoughts, torturing me into just calling for this to end let one side win over the other already.

I spend my leisure time combing the internet typically reading and educating myself upon political though, philosophy and history. Attempting to understand every side of each argument, but it is a difficult thing to do when you are torn with one side of your mind saying, "this is correct", and the other side saying, "no, this is correct". I just want it to stop!

I believe that the reason for this internal division is due to the heavily Libertarian nature of the AboveTopSecret network. The majority of the people that believe the things I believe are not with my internal winning side on political thought, rather they are on the opposing team. I read threads, posts and opinions from a wide variety of sources and people, each making a deliberate connection between freedom and conspiracy.

They argue that freedom and liberty is the answer to the questions we so commonly ask in the area of political thought. Just give yourself over to independent self motivation, aspiration and hard work and we can all succeed. Society works best when government governs least. These opinions flow through my mind continuously day and night as I spend my days on ATS.

I try to maintain and control my opposing side inside my head from seeping through into my fingers which then submit that message onto ATS which I would then sound like a complete hypocrite, flip-flopping from one side to another not being able to make up my mind. But I believe it is deeper than what appears on the surface, a truly personal touch has created my current political ideology.

Basing my currently winning beliefs off the idea that the rich are not to be trusted, corporations are not our friends, government can work best and every person should have the choice to make their own personal decisions. But then my opposing side says that the rich whom rightfully earned their money are entitled to keep the fruits of their labors, that corporations under a truly capitalist system can work for the greater prosperity of society, an active government is not necessary and still every person should have the choice to make their own personal decisions.

As you can probably see by now I am truly undecided in which side I support, my learning has taught me that Libertarianism has overall been the best diagnosis for society’s ills while my experience of personal poverty, unemployment and welfare has taught me that some people need a hand up and it is only fair and humane to watch after every member of our society.

So if I decide to go Libertarian than I think to myself that I am abandoning my fellow man and treating them inhumane, but at the same time I believe that under Libertarianism that all people who are willing to work hard can make it.

While I am quite sure that this war will rage on for some time to come I am simply asking if any other members of ATS are currently having or have had the same internal struggle that I am currently having and how you finally came to your conclusion?

reply to post by Misoir


Mis,

If you sit down and have a quiet time, please ask Jesus to help you.

Never fails for me.

Well of course the correct answer is that there is no war within you, there is simply a system that has mutated into polarized camps which leaves you feeling as though you must polarize also.

The real answer to the best kind of society would involve aspects from both camps.

At least that's what makes sense for me.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by Misoir

 

Mis,

If you sit down and have a quiet time, please ask Jesus to help you.

Never fails for me.

I definitely believe some thinking time would be good for me to help form my final opinion. But my biggest fear is what if the opposing side does win?

catwhoknows, I will be taking you suggestion and will partake in a bit of soul searching for the rest of this week.

To all my fellow ATS'ers I will be taking a temporary leave. Not to fear as I will return and I will continue to observe the updating posts and threads each day. I will simply refrain from hours of discussion and observation on this site for the next week.

The reason? I am trying to find my inner self, so I will be removing all of my information and my main picture. I will be doing a bit of soul searching.

Only two things and you must do the rest yourself:

Ambiguity and cognitive dissonance are ok; they should cause no real unrest.

No side need be chosen, rise above.

Sounds to me like you're a libertarian who believes that a few welfare programs and regulations are necessary.

If so, then welcome to the party.

Why must you choose a side?

It's quite comfortable here, taking aspects that make sense from both sides and a few from the middle and NOT fitting squarely into either political ideology. And there's lots of room, too!

My advice would be: DON'T choose a side. Stand up for what's right in your heart and mind. For me, it's the only way.

I have spent the past 12 hours researching Libertarianism and Socialism. I have read about the contributors to each philosophy and their reasoning for their beliefs. I have read a great amount of Das Kapital and the works of Thomas Paine and the Constitution. I spent a great deal of time listening to professionals on YouTube giving speeches and lectures about each side and what each sides solutions are.

I have read into every part of Libertarianism such as positive/negative liberty, contract theory, natural rights and I have also read every part of Socialism such as Social Justice, Egalitarianism and Workers ownership of the means of production and its' meaning.

To be honest my head hurts, but I do believe that I have formed my final conclusion. I am considering finishing up my weeks break from ATS though. I thank everyone who responded.

The lefties and righties are playin trix on your mind. Dont let them get to you. Its good that you "dont know". Out of your state of con-fusion and chaos eventually comes order and clarity. In your tens and twenties be liberal. In your thirties and forties be conservative. In your 50s transcend polarity and be a whole and full human being.

Thats the advice from Uncle Sky

reply to post by Skyfloating


Why should one wait so long to transcend? We need that critical mass ASAP.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp


Why should one wait so long to transcend? We need that critical mass ASAP.

Its part of the game. Part of forming a balanced mind. You own a certain viewpoint for awhile. And then you grow out of it. Then you own another one. And then you grow out o it. Society is a whole is slower.

Great topic of discussion.

One of the things you said hit home and that was your caring for your fellow man which you "believe" is a liberal value. The one challenge I offer is to compare the difference between a "helping hand" and "slavery to dependency" because that is where I completely disagree with the left because they have in my view purposely enslaved a generation of poor with never-ending entitlements that keep one "living but in poverty" for the rest of their lives.

The Libertarian way is to teach a man to fish if you would. Most people do not have a problem with social programs that lead to the "goal" of self-sufficiency and personal pride at the end of the road. The problems come when you have a never-ending program and a bureaucracy that only exists to perpetuate the problem. How can you solve a problem if there are entire governmental structures dedicated to keeping the problem going and growing it if possible to increase your bureaucracy's influence? Safety nets are good but utter dependency is political slavery and that is one of the reasons I cannot stand the "progressive" movement. It so resembles communism in which there is an "elite" ruling class of government / party that "takes care" of the "equal" serfs (equally miserable) while those rules do not apply to the ruling class / party. We have seen this in every communist country on the face of the earth. To repeat it is pure folly.

reply to post by Misoir


Likewise, Corporations and Rich People are just that... people. There are good ones and bad ones, those who criminally use influence to steal taxpayer money and those that are victims of Government interference. Those who honestly earn a living and those that are parasites and unscrupulous.

Governments role should be to "honestly" regulate anti-monopoly laws, workers rights, etc. Unfortunately, political funding has caused a tug or war between special interest groups and they OWN our politicians. The only solution for this is taking money out of the equation with public funding of political campaigns. Sure, it will cost millions per cycle but it is a fraction of what we pay-out in special interest give-me's and pork projects. It would actually cost the taxpayer less with public funding than they currently steal today.

Today, Government is nothing more than the will of special interest groups. Those groups in "power" change as the parties do for some groups but groups such as Big Pharma, Big Oil, and Big Ag now corrupt both parties.

Besides social issues, there is not much difference between the D & R parties. Both promote and support the giants that kick-back to them with political contributions.

reply to post by infolurker


Conservative: People too lazy to fish have no business taking my fish. Certain groups have no business fishing at all since all they do is demand the fish of others. If you have alot of fish already, it means you probably need more so that others who actually do the fishing will somehow eventually receive some fish themselves. If you cannot fish here for us, we'll use whatever means we have at our disposal in order to get more fish from elsewhere. Anyone who reads the Bible already knows how to fish and anyone who learns fishing through other means is going to hell.

Liberal: People need fish and others have unfairly denied fish in the past. Fish should not be denied on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion or how many fish one already has. Help those who were previously prevented from fishing by giving them first access to fish. Be sure noone can catch the wrong kinds of fish that could be harmful to themselves, their children or the environment. Fishing rights should be tightly controlled and those who would fish too much or benefit most from fishing should pay their share according to how much they've benefitted from fishing.

Libertarian: Fish or die, but noone should be denied the right to fish to the best of his or her capability. Some fish more successfully than others and each has a right to his or her catch. The government has no business in fishing other than securing our basic natural right to fish. We shall not be denied the use of our privately-owned fisheries as we see fit.

Progressive: Give a man fish while he learns to fish. If he successfully learns to fish, he can become a great contributor to society. If he is unable to learn to fish, he shall be at least be able to obtain enough fish to meet his basic needs because everyone has a basic right not to starve.

Communist: The worker owns the means of fishing. Keeping fish for one's self is theft. Each provides fish according to his or her capabilities and receives fish according to his or her needs. The central authority on fishing decides who fishes, when, where and how, and handles the distribution of fish.

Anarchist: Noone has any business telling me how to fish, where to fish, when to fish or what kind of fish I can catch. We fish as we damned well please but we respect others' natural right to fish and the fish.

Eutopia: Fish each for the benefit of others. Noone shall go hungry.





It's first draft. Sorry for all the chum!

Introspection is very healthy, imho.

Your questions are very valid, as are your .... understandings, i think.
The problem is that you're stuck in the current era, and frankly the "opposites" are more alike than they'd ever admit to, they're also very exclusive. There are so many assumptions you're making in your observations of the world around you, that are wrong. But they are what your language, culture and age has taught you. They are your tools, and your tools are not adequate in fixing the problem before you. Because our age does not have a valid understanding of man. Your problem involves humanity, and being a man, and being a good man. These problems are utterly divorced from even libertarianism, which already has made certain assumptions ... and has side stepped the real issue, which is MORAL, not political.
The second you fall into political thought, you're missing the real issues, and get taken with "ideas" instead of ... feelings, perhaps.

Logic cannot account for the MAN in mankind, merely the products of man. You have to step out the paradigm.
peace ;-)

reply to post by EnlightenUp


That was a very nice post. I smell fish!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

That was a very nice post. I smell fish!

Thank you. Somehow writing that elucidated to me that ideologies have a tendency to boil down to beliefs about how resources should be allocated. Once they're boiled down and the essences concentrated, the fishy odor gets pretty intense.

reply to post by Misoir


What Ive gotten from your posting here in the last months is that you just want to be a good person and do the right thing. You want to have made the right choice and not be deceived.

I say that if your intent is good, your political affiliation is secondary.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I say that if your intent is good, your political affiliation is secondary.

And I say that no matter how good your intentions are, what really matters is how you act and what actions you support.

After all, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.