If I'm not religious but believe intelligent design has possibilities am I therefore religious or s

If I'm not religious but believe intelligent design has possibilities am I therefore religious or scientific

Briefly to set the scene: as a child it was insisted I went to Sunday school I did for many years but never really progressed to church on a regular basis. For me something didn't gel the bible had more questions than answers but that was okay I didn't particularly challenge it.

Life has progressed to the other end of the scale these days a lot older and none the wiser, the in between years have been very science biased. Always looking for answers the theory of intelligence design has taken a front seat for me probably because (I think) it sits between religion and evolution.

Anyone here sitting on this fence or is there no fence – interested in your thoughts.

MJ2

Well there is a religious test I know you can take online to see where they place you.
www.beliefnet.com...
There are a lot of mysteries in life and everyone will claim they have the answers. A lot of them faithful to their beliefs. That doesn't make their religion true though. From where you stand I say you will be a huge fan of Bumba.
www.godchecker.com...

I don't think you would be classified as either. I personally am not satisfied with either explanation and openly admit that I just don't know, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it although I get flack from both sides from it.
I often wonder if the truth of our origins is something the human mind can not yet or possibly not ever be able to comprehend because it requires a complex way of thinking that our brains are not set up for.

wouldn't that put OP with the Agnostics?

2nd

@Calstorm

This is what the bible teaches. Man can simply not comprehend everything... although science would come knockin saying that we are discovering new facts everyday.... There certainly is enough out there to make a sane person completely lose track...

reply to post by majestictwo


We can work this out:

You are not religious.

You believe in intelligent design - therefore you believe in a creator.

Religion is a man-made thing and therefore not to be trusted.

So it is fine to believe in a creator, and not to believe in "religion".

Who that creator is, is up to you.

Originally posted by faceoff85
wouldn't that put OP with the Agnostics?

2nd

Indeed, perhaps its that simple. But you know I think we "scientifically" are getting closer to the answer. How about that for sitting on the fence.

You know, I was 'sitting on that fence' for most of my adult life. I don't think I even realized it (or admitted it), because while I have always believed in a divine creator, I never had faith. I never read the bible and challenged it because so much of it relies on having 'faith' and I am a very black/white person and self-proclaimed control freak. Faith is all about giving up that control and to be frank, that scared the heck out of me.

Just recently I had a life-changing experience. Now, I don't want to come across as preaching or trying to push an agenda here, I am not. I am hoping that maybe by sharing this with you it could possibly lead you to answering some of your questions...in you own time and way. The fact that you are looking for these answers I think indicates that you maybe are already aware of some of the things I have recently discovered.

I have read about meditation and chakras, etc. several times but never explored it although it interested me. Again...that whole black/white,control does not fit in there. Well, for the past several years I, like so many other people these days, have been looking more and more for the reason of my existence. I finally decided to try meditating, ironically, after reading a thread here on ATS about it. I have experienced all of the elements before,but never put them together. I figured I would fall asleep and be done with it. Boy was I in for a surprise. Instead of falling asleep, I 'opened' my awareness of this absolutely incredible energy whithin that eminates from deep in the pit of your stomach and (if concentrated on), spreads through your body giving you this feeling of complete euphoria and just plain 'goodness'. I was at the same time enthralled, excited, amazed, confused and a little scared. What in the world was this?

I spent the next two days reading up on this and found that this 'energy' in fact has a name. Kundalini. Look it up,lots of info on it. So....I started to go down that road. The very next time I meditated, I concentrated on it more and 'moved' it up to me head. The experience was even more incredible, it is hard to even explain. BUT...the rational, control freak in me was even more scared. I was really quite confused for a few days and a little worried about my rational. Then, again after reading some other threads here at ATS, I realized I was at a crossroads. I could go down the 'astral plane' and some other mythical road, or I could, to simply put it, turn to God. Once I determined that, the answer was easy. That night, I did what I should have been doing from the begining; pray. I have 'prayed' all my life but this was the first time that I REALLY prayed. It's hard to explain.

Without getting too religious with you (I have always hated to be preached to) I feel that my awareness of this world around me has been enhanced and changed forever. I know now that the energy I have felt all my life is real. It is in every living thing and connects us all. Ofcourse there is a creator, how couldn't there be? The holy spirit, as it is called in the bible, is the thread that connects us all and our direct link back home once our training here on earth is over.

Being a realist, I always need proof of something before believing it. There could be no greater proof than the incredible energy of the holy spirit that I have now 'tapped' into. My whole attitude has changed from negative to positive. I am finally at peace with things because I now have faith. I know that everything will ultimately be alright and that God is always there.....if we just allow ourselves to feel it. We truly are all created equally and we are all connected to each other by this energy. Let me ask you this: Have you ever been to a church service and experienced that warm, comforting feeling while everyone is singing together? That is a VERY small taste of what the holy spirit is. I know now that is real, it is there and I have finally found the faith that I have been lacking all my life and the changes in my life are already apparant.

This past Sunday both my daughter and I were baptized. It was amazing.

I hope you find your answers...I know it is a unique experience for everyone. If you were to talk to me a month ago, I would be saying some very diferent things....the change in me is amazing and it's obvious to my friends and family....that I am happy and 'different'. Our lives here are a wonderful gift and I believe only the begining!!

reply to post by westcoast


Hi west,

I know what you are saying.

When I am feeling bad, I talk to Jesus, and I immediately feel a wave of peace washing over me.

reply to post by catwhoknows


I'm glad you do. Now that I have this faith, I want to share it with everyone. I never got that before. I was actually envious of the few people I have known in my life with that unwavering faith, you know? At my baptism, I told the congregation that the reason I chose now to do it was "Because I finally get it!". It is like this incredible mystery that once unlocked, changes your outlook on life forever. The thing is, it isn't something to be 'obtained'. The holy spirit/energy/love is always there...we just have to acknowledge it and 'tap' into it. I think other cultures and religions have explained it in different ways, but I think the answer it quite simple. Faith isn't something you 'think', it is something you 'feel' and it is very amazing!!!

reply to post by westcoast


Yes!

I say go Jesus!

And people come in here and say they hate Jesus supporters. Sad people.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Yes, this is why I think it is important to acknowledge that there are a whole lot of people out there that are 'on the fence' right now.

I think you are right OP, we are getting closer scientifically to proving that there is even more that we don't understand and probably never will...in a lab.

I think we are getting closer to proving that there IS something beyond our existence interacting with us on this level. That there ARE forces around us that are not easily explained. (quantum mechanics)

I am thankful that I personally got the proof I needed. The funny thing is, it all started with me meditating...not actually what is thought of as praying. Because of this, I believe that you can obtain the same connection without necesarily believing in the process. Perhaps you will decide it is worth the 'experiment' to try and see for yourself if you can do the same.

reply to post by majestictwo


There's no reason to be on the fence.

Evolution - observed fact, we've observed speciation in the lab. The fossil evidence and genetic evidence are just icing on the cake.

Intelligent Design - Religiously biased AND has never produced any evidence. Whether the designer were alien or deity or whatever there has never been a shred of evidence to suggest a biological mechanism for bio-diversity other than Evolution or evidence that evolution has been interfered with by an intelligence other than our own (we manipulate it all the time for our gain).

reply to post by westcoast


It is all about getting peaceful in your own mind, and then the truth comes flooding in.

As for people sitting on the fence - everyone has to have a belief of some kind - and sitting on the fence will not help.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Hi Titen,

How about evolution plus a creator?

How could evolution even happen if something was not created to start it?

reply to post by catwhoknows


It's not necessary to have a creator for life.
Here's a great link offer my cause.
www.nobeliefs.com...

reply to post by catwhoknows


I have no issue with the idea of Evolution with a creator to get things rolling... the problem is saying: There was a creator doesn't answer any of the questions... Okay, let's say there is a creator who creates the first single-celled organisms and then things Evolve from there:

1) What kind of Creator? A God, an alien, what would he be and where is the evidence for his existence?

2) How does he Create? Does he just will things into existence via divine magic like the God of the Bible or is he more of a scientist creating a simple cell using the ingredients already on Earth.

Abiogenesis is still up in the air, we're not quite sure how life formed to start with though there are fairly sound scientific hypotheses regarding how it might have happened. Personally though I don't have much of an issue with people who think God drives Evolution or started life. As long as they aren't going around denying scientific facts and trying to get religion into science class I really don't have a problem

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


I am sorry to disagree, but for something to happen, there has to be a creator.

Nothing comes from nothing.

It's possible you are living in a simulated universe created by an advanced species of Humans.
If you think about our current technology and where it will possibly go in the future you have to assume that we will be capable of creating ancestor simulations, our technology may become so advanced that the ancestor simulation inhabitants will find it impossible to differentiate or even know they are living as a simulation created by advanced technology. You have to assume it is a possibility that you are living in an ancestor simulation, just as likely as being created by a deity no?

reply to post by woodwardjnr


The End.

We have gone too crazy.

Even a simulated universe had to have a creator.

Technology had to have a creator.

Everything had to have a creator.

You sound like a Deist.
en.wikipedia.org...

What type of deist you will have to find out on your own. you may be a Christian Deist, modern Deist, or Classical deist.
www.positivedeism.com...

The best part about deism is there is no one that can give you a hard time about not fitting mold of what they think you should be.

There are few sins in deism.
And no hell and damnation.