Too Many People for an Inside 9/11 Job

firstly you need to remember that there where military exerzises that day across that nation of yours, including pentagon

im not even gonna go into how many military personel including crisis management that was deployed that day for these exerzises

many of these exerzises uses dummies and props for enhancement of reality of situvation

yet

on such a day when you have more then enough people ready your vice president when faced with this said its a stand down , several times all up untill the "impacts".

same thing happened during 7/7 in london , exerzises , more then usual military / crisis management activity yet the disasters happened.

Originally posted by quantum_flux
It would take hundreds of people to set up the plan to "launch missiles into the Pentagon and WTC buildings killing businessmen and federal employees, fabricate fake videos of airplanes flying into buildings to cover up those missiles and force all news media to broadcast them, set demolition devices and thermite bombs to demolish the buildings with innocent people and rescue crews inside, kill all the passengers on those flights and dispose of the bodies, fake videos of Osama Bin Laden bragging about it, and then convince the majority that Islamic terrorists did it".

That is a lot of extraordinary claims (not an exhaustive list by any means) that truthers make that I am skeptical of, and frankly I believe somebody would have fessed up due to a guilty conscience by now.

Okay son, let's settle a few things to start with.

#1. Two planes DID crash into the WTC towers. Idiots and pro conspiracy theorists invented the controversy about phantom planes and doctored video. It's bullsh*t and all the serious researchers acknowledge that.

#2. The Pentagon event is a lot less documented (video-wise) and it is suspicious (at the very least) that dozens of security video clips have not been produced to document exactly what happened. I worked on a USAF installation crew at the Pentagon for two months and every inch of that place - inside and outside - has been redundantly covered at all times with extremely high quality cameras and recorded footage since the mid-70's, at least. The footage exists. All anyone wants is to be able to settle the matter once and for all, and that footage would settle it.

#3. The entire project involving prepping the towers for the drop has already been established and there are two extremely credible witnesses - on record - who detailed that the final prep for the drops was performed on the weekend before the attacks. The number of people involved would not have been more than a couple dozen, and Blackwater Security took in a lot of ex-KGB operatives (including demo techs) when the USSR went down, leaving those guys without paying jobs. The Thermate charges would have only been used in key spots - probably where the three isolated units that made up each tower were connected - to ensure that the whole building would globally fail as one structure. After all, the towers were designed to remain as three isolated structural units per tower - making a progressive collapse literally impossible.

Setting RF-triggered IED's (basically) at points along the building's core, placed with two guys on top of each maintenance elevator as a third manually operates it to put them into position, is simple work. And it gets accomplished quickly, since the blast-packs would have been pre-assembled and mounted to the load points magnetically. Then, the entire blast sequence would have been pre-configured to blow each pack in the correct sequence with a laptop-driven transmitter - low wattage, line-of-sight, from a building within 1/4 mile of the towers. The last bit of work would have been manually re-configuring the blast sequence initiation point to begin in the area of the jet-liner impact after the crash, so that the drop would appear to be caused by that impact. Not a lot of operatives involved, and all of them non-American professional soldiers. No guilt involved there. These guys were raised to hate the US and its people.

#4. About the cover-up...The Anthrax Attacks targeted two entities with 4 attacks. The DNC Senate leadership and the mainstream media. These attacks were specifically made in reference to the 9/11 attacks, and the specific spore strain's ID was traced to a DoD lab in Maryland. This specific recipe (the spores and the technical preparation of the spores) has been estimated to have taken at least 2 years to engineer, which indicates that this attack was planned well in advance. Especially since this specific recipe was not part of the DoD's registered stockpile. In other words, a team (and it takes a team) of specialists took a DoD strain and created this recipe on its own and without DoD authorization, before employing it specifically in congress with the 9/11 Attacks toward the only two US entities powerful enough to properly investigate and litigate the perpetrators of the 9/11 Attacks - should it ever be discovered that Al Qaeda was not involved in those attacks. It is also important to note that the Anthrax Attacks occurred immediately after CNN published a report questioning an aspect of the attacks and the Official explanation about that aspect of the attacks. In fact, the attacks occurred within days of that published report. The accepted presumption is that the Anthrax Attacks were a warning for the government and the media to leave the 9/11 Attacks alone and to not allow them to be properly investigated. It is reasonably speculated that there are more Anthrax attacks being held over the American public as a threat against any investigation ever occurring.

#5. Oh, and Osama condemned the attacks within a week of their occurrence. Look it up. He was in a Saudi hospital having dialysis when they occurred. Seems odd that he would have not known when they were to happen, allowing himself to be so obviously vulnerable at the moment of the attacks to US authorities, and that he would not have taken credit for the attacks in that first press release. And that video, where Osama claims credit? The guy in the US released video was right-handed (Osama is left-handed) and facial recognition software has already debunked the guy as not being Osama. That was established in 2005, but again, the MSM and the US govt. are dealing with an Anthrax threat if they acknowledge what has been positively proven.

All of this information is old hat, and to be honest, I expected more from ATS on this subject. This is supposed to be the premiere conspiracy site, and tired threads like this one keep showing up here. This stuff has been established for 5 years now. It's almost as if the perps and their salesmen (like the boob who started this thread) will ultimately win because no one bothers to move to the next stage, which is to figure out how to take it to the perpetrators that we already have identified. The effort to bring this issue to closure seems stranded in the proof stage. The proof has been found and the truth has been determined. Now the ramifications have to be determined and metered out properly.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
I think you need to ask yourself what could be gained by starting a war with Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan's opium production went up dramatically since we went in. I wonder how that happens when your being invaded? Oh, yea the CIA and drug smuggling. Selling drug to help fund the war machine. Vietnam all over again.

There also was the desire to put a pipeline through Afghanistan in the 90's but Bin Laden wouldn't allow it. They couldn't have that could they. He was an obstacle that needed removing. The same with Saddam Hussein. I'm sure he ticked off the Government when he ordered the oil wells lite when he retreated from Kuwait. If he couldn't have it neither would America. You do know that Iraq and Iran has a lot of oil. America uses a lot of oil. I find it funny how there is now tension with Iran and we just so happen are having wars in two of Iran's bordering countries. What a coincidence. It's all staged. An actual game of chess. The war was structured to obtain as much oil as we can. We have either hit peak oil use or already did years ago. It's the mad rush to get it while the getting is good.

Why do you people think it terms of governments? The world is not run by governments. It's run by international business groups. Governments either cooperate or they find themselves having terrorism issues. The 9/11 Attacks were a shift from high tech to defense spending, forced by the security and defense sector. There have been plenty of easy to recognize reasons for the attacks. None of them ideological in nature.

The Oil Industry has made hundreds of billions off the instability of the ME region. The international construction industry has made hundreds of billions off padded reconstruction projects that still exist as mulit-layered boondoggles throughout the ME. Munitions and defense machinery manufacturers have made hundreds of billions and stand to make trillions off the need to blow [snip] up in the ME in order to "keep America free" in a "post-9/11 world". There are dozens of brand new security intelligence firms in the US private sector since 9/11 and the War on Terror, with trillions of US Treasury dollars being sucked into that black hole - off budget, and applicable to "stuff that's necessary" in the shadow budget that Bush/Cheney created (most of which Obama took out of the shadows and allowed to suddenly show up on the real budget - ironically tagging him with that spending spree). The spending is nowhere near even leveling out, and all the defense dollars never get questioned in this country.

9/11 was designed to offset the absence of the Soviet Cold War threat. Defense spending went flat for a decade, and high-tech was the boomtown sector during the 90's. The big defense and energy money took care of that situation with 4 planes and several dozen hired goons (courtesy of Blackwater) - and a small marketing team in the White House (courtesy of the GOP). Talk about your ROI coming through. The rest - that war in Iraq and Afghanistan - was pure Cheney, and he's a stupid man with no real capacity for pulling off what he envisions. He was just the field marketing manager for the 9/11 project. He wouldn't have been capable to planning and directing those attacks. His MO is clearly visible when you look at what a cluster-[snip] the two wars have been. A stupid, nasty little man, who was handed his own bit of destiny as his price for opening up the US Treasury to his corporate bosses.

Bush? He's a dry drunk. Just an idiot with delusions of grandeur and a dad who sits on the board of three international business sectors - all of who needed 9/11 to happen. Frankly, the whole scenario is almost too easy to flesh out. People who run things aren't geniuses.

reply to post by LordBucket


You seriously think a team of 6 was sufficient to rig WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 for demolition ?

You don't think any of the team would think it odd that they were rigging buildings that thousands of people were working in ?

Did none of them twig afterwards what they had been doing ?

If the government wanted pretence for invading Iraq and Afghanistan and were going to plan a false flag attack why would they have constructed such an elaborate plan? One that was so overly complex?

They would have needed Engineers, secret demolition teams, architects, heads of military, radar operators, airline companies, airports, airport security, journalists, fighter pilots, politicians, vfx and sfx artists, coroners etc etc etc. Its way too many people and too many variables.

There would have been way easier ways to accomplish the same result, that Middle Eastern terrorism is the gravest threat to America.



Also ,Why no Iraqi hijackers? If they were made up shouldn't they have at least made them the nationality of the country they wanted to invade.

reply to post by NorEaster


" The entire project involving prepping the towers for the drop has already been established and there are two extremely credible witnesses - on record - who detailed that the final prep for the drops was performed on the weekend before the attacks. "


I would be interested in reading more about this . Could you please provide a source ?

reply to post by drock905


You are overdosing on the common sense there ! You must be a paid government disinfo agent.

There are SO many reasons why this was an inside job. If you read all the information posted on ATS, watch all the Youtube video reports, and use your own gut feeling, then weigh all those points up with the OS and the hard unquestionable evidence that it wasn't an inside job (if you can find any), then you will be left with an obvious conclusion. Don't close your eyes and believe the BS. Seek the truth and believe that we are all pawns in the game played by the powerful ones.

Two other points to consider, amongst all the many are:

If these were commercial, hijacked aircraft, then when their fuel laden bodies (made of light metals), hit the concrete and steel of the massive and strong structure that was the World Trade Centre Towers, they would have exploded on impact, outside of the building as well as in! These 'aircraft' seemed to plough through all that tough material and explode INSIDE the buildings??

Also.... There is no way on this earth, that those buildings would collapse to the ground by an impact and fire on a few floors. As those floors gave way, the mass collapsing, including the floors above would very soon hit resistance in the floors below, which were undamaged, and so the collapse would slow and debris would fall outside of the structure, and the collapse would stop mid way down. (and I'm no engineer, it's purely logic).

Definately, without doubt - an event planned with the Bush Administration in the driving seat!

Originally posted by quantum_flux
It would take hundreds of people to set up the plan to "launch missiles into the Pentagon and WTC buildings killing businessmen and federal employees, fabricate fake videos of airplanes flying into buildings to cover up those missiles and force all news media to broadcast them, set demolition devices and thermite bombs to demolish the buildings with innocent people and rescue crews inside, kill all the passengers on those flights and dispose of the bodies, fake videos of Osama Bin Laden bragging about it, and then convince the majority that Islamic terrorists did it".

That is a lot of extraordinary claims (not an exhaustive list by any means) that truthers make that I am skeptical of, and frankly I believe somebody would have fessed up due to a guilty conscience by now.

Apparently, you don't know the power of our own gov't. They nearly wiped out an entire NATION of indeginous people, disfigured generations of people in Vietnam, and control the news system.

Did you know Bureaucracy, the argued fourth branch of the national system (besides Juidicial, Executive, and Legislative) employes 3 million people and counting? That's the NSA, CIA, FBI, NASA...

reply to post by Alfie1

You seriously think a team of 6 was sufficient to rig WTC 1,
WTC 2 and WTC 7 for demolition ?

Given a few weeks to do it, yes, absolutely.

You don't think any of the team would think it odd that they were rigging buildings that thousands of people were working in ?

You don't really believe, do you, that out of the million and a half active US military personel, no six could be found who could be persuaded to do such a thing?

Did none of them twig afterwards what they had been doing ?

"Twig?"

If by that you mean have a change of heart and want to talk, consider the following scenario: you've been in the military for most of your adult life. It's all you know. You've been trained to follow orders. You've been on dozens of covert missions, and you've killed many people. You were told you were chosen for this particular mission because you were the only one who could do it. You were offered a huge bonus and lots of perks for doing it. You were asked to both sign and swear an oath of secrecy. And you did.

If you go to the press...all of your years of service, all of your sense of duty and honor, your loyalty to your fellow officers...all of that will be thrown in the trash. You'll suddenly be the person responsible for thousands of deaths. You'll be court martialed for treason. Probably executed.

Wouldn't it be easier to keep quiet?

reply to post by ckitch


Do you realize the concept of the physics? Put your thinking cap on, please:

If these were commercial, hijacked aircraft, then when their fuel laden bodies (made of light metals), hit the concrete and steel of the massive and strong structure that was the World Trade Centre Towers, they would have exploded on impact, outside of the building as well as in!

I think you're underestimating the forces involved, and the materials (especially the builiings' structure details).

This is interesting, it's a short read, highly recommend it to get you thinking:

A 3000-pound car at 70 MPH has 15.8 million pounds of force at impact.

Now, I found that with a quick search, and there are plenty of physics formulas and equations also available online.

The maximum gross weight for the B767-200 is (still using American units) is 395,000 pounds (for the ER version). Of course, the airplanes used on 9/11 weren't at max weight, so even conservatively you can still knock off 100,000 pounds and see the sort of impact forces they would inflict at the speeds seen.

Here's something from another online link:

Assuming your table of m = 100 lb. = 45 kg, initially travelling at 60 mph = 27 m/s is deformed by 10 in. = 27 cm then the impact time interval is approximately
dt = 0.27 m / (27 m/s) = 0.01 s

During this 100th of a second it is decelerated from 27 m/s to zero, so
a = dv/dt = (27 m/s) / 0.01 s = 2700 m/s^2

So the impact force is
F = m * a = 45 kg * 2700 m/s^2 = 121500 N

This is equivalent to the weight force of an object of 12385 kg!

You see, impact forces are quite large, but they only last for very short time intervals.

en.allexperts.com...

Good luck in your studies......

Originally posted by ohsnaptruth

Originally posted by quantum_flux
It would take hundreds of people to set up the plan to "launch missiles into the Pentagon and WTC buildings killing businessmen and federal employees, fabricate fake videos of airplanes flying into buildings to cover up those missiles and force all news media to broadcast them, set demolition devices and thermite bombs to demolish the buildings with innocent people and rescue crews inside, kill all the passengers on those flights and dispose of the bodies, fake videos of Osama Bin Laden bragging about it, and then convince the majority that Islamic terrorists did it".

That is a lot of extraordinary claims (not an exhaustive list by any means) that truthers make that I am skeptical of, and frankly I believe somebody would have fessed up due to a guilty conscience by now.

Apparently, you don't know the power of our own gov't. They nearly wiped out an entire NATION of indeginous people, disfigured generations of people in Vietnam, and control the news system.

Did you know Bureaucracy, the argued fourth branch of the national system (besides Juidicial, Executive, and Legislative) employes 3 million people and counting? That's the NSA, CIA, FBI, NASA...

Your post just confirms for me , what I knew already, that trutherism really has its basis in angst with authority in general, and in particular with the US government. If Bush/Cheney were so ruthlessly in pursuit of power how come the peaceful handover ? I saw, prior to the election, predictions that Bush/Cheney would nuke an American city so that they could continue with emergency powers. Of course, like everything else in trutherism, that has vanished like morning mist.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I think you are suggesting that I'm thinking these aircraft couldn't penetrate the buildings, due to an imbalance of material strength - well I'm not.

I agree there is increased force by speed, and yes they would easily enter the structure, even if it's structure is stronger than the planes. However, that wouldn't stop the plane smashing up on impact and the fuel exploding OUTSIDE the building. They would still rip a bloody great hole in it, but I doubt they would enter it seemingly undamaged, and only appear to explode inside!

reply to post by ckitch


No offense but , your post only shows how very little you actually know about the construction of the towers , velocity , energy , and logic .

I've studied most of the information available , that you speak of . That is the reason that I am no longer a truther .

reply to post by Alfie1
"if you are one that has no remorse, seek only money, willing to kill, and to kill for the greater good, then no, do not even loose sleep over a few lost soles, after all they no longer suffer, the grater good can be power, money or greed, it can be a new way or control, do the words "Patriot Act" ring a bell?" just a way one might think if he/she was to do a thing like that , one does not have to look far to find a person like that .

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
Thousands of people can and do hold their silence, especially when there's threats involved. If you have a family you're not untouchable..

Manhattan project anyone? Over one hundred thousand people were involved and the secret was successfully kept.

No it wasn't, Stalin was up to speed in no time. We are now in the tenth year since 9/11 and not a single person has indicated their involvement, anonymously, death bed confession, guilt trip whatever.

Give it time; 9 years is not all that long. Besides, how do you know that nobody HAS come out with it yet? The MSM would never give them the time of day anyway, so why does it matter.

Originally posted by LordBucket
If by that you mean have a change of heart and want to talk, consider the following scenario: you've been in the military for most of your adult life. It's all you know. You've been trained to follow orders. You've been on dozens of covert missions, and you've killed many people. You were told you were chosen for this particular mission because you were the only one who could do it. You were offered a huge bonus and lots of perks for doing it. You were asked to both sign and swear an oath of secrecy. And you did.

If you go to the press...all of your years of service, all of your sense of duty and honor, your loyalty to your fellow officers...all of that will be thrown in the trash. You'll suddenly be the person responsible for thousands of deaths. You'll be court martialed for treason. Probably executed.

Wouldn't it be easier to keep quiet?

This hypothesis has so, SO many fallacies. First off, they're not going to go to a sniper expert or insertion teams for this. They're going to go to someone who a) has experience with rigging buildings with controlled demolitions, b) has preexisting contacts within building security so that he can enter without being challanged, c) has an expert understanding of the building so that he's know where to plant them to demolish the building AS WELL AS planting the demolitions where noone will notice them, d) is a blithering idiot who won't realize he's going to kill thousands of innocent Americans including his own friends who work in the building but e) is not enough of a blithering idiot so that he won't leave clues behind or accidentally spill the beans during a drinking binge.

Second off, if they're intelligent enough to do it, they'd be intelligent enough to know what would happen and they'd say, "[censored] you". If they're morons enough to do it they'd do a sloppy job and they'd leave evidence all over the place. If they're intelligent but sociopathic then they wouldn't think twice about spilling the beans.

I understand your desire to believe the towers were brought down by CD is overpowering, but you need to understand your wanting it to be true by itself doesn't mean it has to be true. If you have concerns about the validity of the thermal expansion theory, fine, but it wasn't controlled demolitions any more than it was heat rays from Martian war machines.

Originally posted by 19872012

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod
Thousands of people can and do hold their silence, especially when there's threats involved. If you have a family you're not untouchable..

Manhattan project anyone? Over one hundred thousand people were involved and the secret was successfully kept.

No it wasn't, Stalin was up to speed in no time. We are now in the tenth year since 9/11 and not a single person has indicated their involvement, anonymously, death bed confession, guilt trip whatever.

Give it time; 9 years is not all that long. Besides, how do you know that nobody HAS come out with it yet? The MSM would never give them the time of day anyway, so why does it matter.

9 years is plenty and some. You can't be serious if you suggest that the MSM would not give the time of day to a real conspirator . They would be salivating all over him/her, assuming the individual was not a total nutcase.

riddle me this

why did your vice president give the stand down order several times ?

NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES Public Hearing; Friday, May 23, 2003, Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216 Washington, DC MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And -- MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the -- MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon. MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

This was the first thing I thought too when my friend told my about 9/11 conspiracy theories, but after watching some videos on it I decided that it very well could be possible.

Here is an extensive list of co-conspirators

www.whodidit.org...