Organ donation and smoking

reply to post by Libertygal



thanks for that great response!

i had never looked into it myself, since i have no prob with that.

i'd be a shame i couldn't donate tho, without the paperwork.

at my age i should have all that in order.

great heads up!

Originally posted by Libertygal
And no, money nor status has *anything* to do with your place in donation lists. You cannot buy a place on a list. Rich people die, stars die, famous people die, all before they might get organs they need in due time.

source please ? human nature says otherwise

Originally posted by Libertygal
It is obvious you have done zero research on this

You know what you are 100% correct .. I have done zero research on this...

This is called an opinion ... something you may want to get used to on ATS.

Don't like it .. then go away.

Originally posted by ppk55

Originally posted by Libertygal
or once brain death is declared

This is the bit that worries me.

Would brain death be declared 'that little bit earlier than normal' if there was unconditional agreement to donate the organs? Just a simple question. Compared to someone who specifically and undeniably stated they did NOT want their organs donated.

Are you serious? Brain death is not just a guessing game. Brain flow studies are done. These are matter of medical record, and no, I have seen people with only a trickle of blood still flowing to the brain, not enough to declare brain death - remain in the care of the physician. In most instances, once brain death was declared, due to waiting for it to occur, the amount of medications used to keep the patient alive ruled them OUT for that donation.

Only in certain cases when the patient is too unstable for brain flow studies to move for the exam, will two doctors examine the patient and do bedside tests for brain death. That is two doctors that use proven test methods to conclude that a patient is indeed deceased. Do not think for a moment that these cases are not reviewed over and over again by boards of doctors and even in some cases attorneys when the family questions things. This area of medicine is *vitally* important, and no one wants to risk losing it.

If you have concerns, you should write a living will. It is a legal document that you can obtain copies from your hospital for, does not need a lawyer to file, and can be kept on record with the hospital as well as in your personal posession.

While there are corrupt people in all walks of life, I will steadfastly stand by my opinion that your death will NOT be hasted in an attempt to get your organs for donation. Whether you had agreed or not, planned for it or not.

Sometimes we do know when a patient rolls in the door that they will be a possible donor. I have seen some of them get up and walk out, amidst tears of joy not only from the doctors, but the nurses who cared for them as well.

By the same token, I have sadly see some roll out the door to the operating room amidst tears of loss for that person, family and doctors and nurses included, but also a certain peace knowing that they will be living on - parts of them, in many people.

What a gift to give someone who just faced what is usually a shocking and tragic loss. Brain death is not something most people go to work expecting to happen to their child, spouse, or themslves.


Give the gift of life.

nothing like waking up in a tub full of ice in thailand somewhere.

big ugly scar where your kidney used to be.

reply to post by ppk55


I just said it was obvious.

And your opinion is terribly damaging if potentially one person that was considering donating changes their mind. And for that, I will not go away.

Thanks for the invite though, but the truth needs to be spoken, not fallacies and fearmongering.

Originally posted by fooks
nothing like waking up in a tub full of ice in thailand somewhere.

big ugly scar where your kidney used to be.

Proven false. Yet again, more fear mongering.

www.snopes.com...

Originally posted by Libertygal
I will steadfastly stand by my opinion that your death will NOT be hasted in an attempt to get your organs for donation. Whether you had agreed or not, planned for it or not.

And will you stand by that in respect to every other medico on earth?

How can you?

How can you? with 5 million up for grabs. Come on, what if someone offered you that?

Originally posted by ppk55

Originally posted by Libertygal
And no, money nor status has *anything* to do with your place in donation lists. You cannot buy a place on a list. Rich people die, stars die, famous people die, all before they might get organs they need in due time.

source please ? human nature says otherwise

I already provided a source, had you bothered to read it.

www.lifelinkfound.org...

Aside from the fact that I have witnessed the entire process from beginning to end, including the organ procurement.

The doctor that was treating the patient hands over the case to the Organ Donation Team. He has nothing to do with it once the patient is declared dead, he signs off the case.

It is a Federal crime to buy or sell organs.There is no way to buy a place on a National Waiting list.

Like it or not, fearmongering or not, the whole process is very intricately overviewed.

One thing is that Organ Donation Companies, such as the one I linked above, work rather closely with the Police and Coronors and Medical Examiniers. The reason being that any traumatic death requires an autopsy. This is usually done BY the Organ Donation organization in conjunction with the Legal authorities overseeing the case, which BTW, are non-profit.

Explicit and intricate records of everything are kept.

To say anything else is fallacy.

Originally posted by Libertygal
Aside from the fact that I have witnessed the entire process from beginning to end, including the organ procurement.

The problem here is you're basing this whole thread on YOU. Ok, you're a saint. agreed, what I'm trying to get at is not everyone is a saint. Not every doctor / institution is going to be as honorable as you.

I believe there are many, many so called medical professionals that would take the $5 million to 'facilitate' an early demise in a patient to expedite an organ transplant. Once again, just my opinion. Sorry it doesn't agree with yours.

double post please delete

Originally posted by ppk55

Originally posted by Libertygal
Aside from the fact that I have witnessed the entire process from beginning to end, including the organ procurement.

The problem here is you're basing this whole thread on YOU. Ok, you're a saint. agreed, what I'm trying to get at is not everyone is a saint. Not every doctor / institution is going to be as honorable as you.

I believe there are many, many so called medical professionals that would take the $5 million to 'facilitate' an early demise in a patient to expedite an organ transplant. Once again, just my opinion. Sorry it doesn't agree with yours.

Way to take my quote out of context, along with the other information that I provided, you asked me for a source.

I provided you my source, along with a link where you can research your questions to your hearts content. I then provided you eyewitness testimony. As I deal with this as my job, then I think my eyewitness testimony stands for something in support of your request for a "source".

It has nothing to do with being a "saint" and you are snotty for twisting it inot that. That is of course, my opinion. Sorry if it doesn't agree with yours.

The rare times that the underground organ trade does happen, once it is discovered, the people are dealth with. Black markets happen in all walks of life, but one would hope that you would not go to some underground institution to garner an organ transplant, and if you did, then you are partially to blame for facilitating it. If there were no market for it, it wouldn't happen.

No, I am dealing in legitimate medical facilities with outstanding phsyicians and Organ Donation organizations, ones that are non-profit and have nothing but the lives of these people in mind. If that doesn't suit your conspiracy that's too bad, but most organ donations are above the board, and the blackmarket trade is not common.

Originally posted by Libertygal
The rare times that the underground organ trade does happen, once it is discovered, the people are dealth with.

Great so now you've gone from none, to rare.

If there is even a one in a thousand chance of my organs being taken prematurely I'm not in it. Sorry,
I don't care what holy spirit cause you try to spin it, my initial stance remains...

If you agree to donate organs .. they won't try as hard to save you. Yes this is a massive generalization, however for every generalization there is some fact/truth behind it.

Originally posted by ppk55

Originally posted by Libertygal
The rare times that the underground organ trade does happen, once it is discovered, the people are dealth with.

Great so now you've gone from none, to rare.

If there is even a one in a thousand chance of my organs being taken prematurely I'm not in it. Sorry,
I don't care what holy spirit cause you try to spin it, my initial stance remains...

If you agree to donate organs .. they won't try as hard to save you. Yes this is a massive generalization, however for every generalization there is some fact/truth behind it.

Again, I will state emphatically that I believe you are terribly incorrect in this, but if it is how you choose to live that's your business.

Through the research I did, the black market organ trade appears to be single organs, such as kidneys, etc. Usually in third world countries. Usually with the people remaining alive, and being willing participants. It has nothing to do with fascilitating these peoples' death.

In forward moving countries, it is still largely unheard of.

The worst that has happened in the US recently was when someone was paying a Funeral Home to get tissue and bone. From dead people. NOt killing people for their organs.

This is a far cry from facilitating someones' death in order to harvest their organs.

This is what the black market largely consists of, and no I would not include it in the same topic as whole body organ donation. IE: What happens when you have brain death and die.

Spin it any way you like, but I would hope that anyone reading this thread would not buy into this load that they are going to hasten your brain death to get your organs when your brain death is usually NOT the cause of death, in any case. I already pointed out in a previous post that brain death is not common. Most deaths are cardiac and or respiratory arrest.

I also stated that if you are that steadfastly against donating, then make a living will, and make sure you know that your feelings are known. This will prevent your organs from going to someone in the unlikely case you have a brain death, or your eyes and tissue and bone after you die.

It is the only way to assure it, and that seems to be what you need for peace of mind, so I urge you to proceed. It is never too early, but it can always be too late, especially if your next of kin wishes to donate your organs. Then your final wishes may not be acknowledged.

Originally posted by Libertygal
Through the research I did, the black market organ trade appears to be single organs, such as kidneys, etc.

Once again, you have to bring this back to YOU again. I don't mean to be rude but you probably have no idea about organ harvesting worldwide.

Do you even know what the going rate is for a used liver in France ?

So, once again, if there is a chance the medicos will provide you with a (slightly earlier than planned) demise due to the attraction of your organs, would you consent to donation? Or would you hope the medical profession would do the right thing by you, $5 million aside.?? huh ??

reply to post by Libertygal


Also, have you ever heard this expression

The lady doth protest too much

Originally posted by ppk55
reply to post by Libertygal

 

Also, have you ever heard this expression

The lady doth protest too much

Ever heard of attack the argument not the person?

Thought that was off topic, and against EULA.

See, when people have nothing left to say and not a leg to stand on, this is what they have to resort to. Thanks for the intellectual conversation and rationality.








NOT.


I can at least back up my posts, my thoughts and opinions with reason, and if you bothered to do even a small amount of research it would become obvious. But alas, some people cannot be bothered with facts when fearmongering is the game of the day. Glad I didn't flag, looks like no one else is, either.


Thank goodness both of our posts speak for themselves.

If you are dead, you are truly dead. Live ( or die? ) with it.

No sense in wasting resources to keep the shell alive when all conciousness is gone.

But still, it is your choice.

Mine is to spare my loved ones the high costs to medically keep me alive, even if I were only to become a vegetable. I want to live, and never to give up this precious gift, but if others have to sacrifice on my behalf, better I go and spare others the pain and misery....

My organs will be donated, freely, without favour to anyone, rich or espacially to the poor, and never to draw the line who the donated is or will be become. He/she needs it more to stay alive, in order to get a second chance in life.

It will be their free will and choice to decide how they want to live their life. I would be sad if they used my organs to harm others, but then...I would have been too far dead to be concerned, as I had done my part as a human while still in mortal form to another fellow human.

Live ....and let live....and respect free will... Today we may be still be immature with such gifts, but if we don't ever stop evoluting, one day we will mature and use such gifts and powers from our Creator wisely, if given the chance....

If a doctor is so corrupt that he is removing organs from people to sell then what makes you think he's going to give a damn about whether you signed an organ donation form or not? You think that they can't give you a fake Donor card?
I can go to this site right now and fill in a donor card with any name I want.

According to this site most black market activity that exists in the US happens way after the point of you being in hospital

In the U.S., a black market for human tissue exists. It usually involves bodies about to be cremated. A black market broker may enter into a financial arrangement with a criminally minded funeral home director and carve up the bodies before they're cremated. Falsified papers -- such as consent forms and death certificates -- are produced,

Not being a registered donor isn't going to do squat about that either.

So because some doctors might abuse the donor system you refuse to be a donor but not being a donor doesn't actually stop that abuse from occurring, all it stops is people with a valid need getting your organs .

3. Why would anyone want organs from someone who had smoked?


My wife has less than twenty percent use of one lung and fifty percent use of
the other due to scarring from asthma. she has been on supplemental oxygen
for a decade as is on the list for a lung transplant.

She cannot exercise at all without severe stress due to lack of oxygen.

I, on the other hand, have smoked two packs a day for nearly thirty years.
Due to some reason I don't understand I can hold my breath over two minutes...
I did it this summer in the pool, underwater. Maybe it's genetics, I don't know.
Point is, my lungs are probably five hundred percent better than my wife's
even though I abuse them. And if someone inherits my lungs after I die, they
won't inherit my nicotine addiction...and after a few months my/their lungs
should be nearly free of my abuses against them. Perhaps they will inherit
a higher risk of lung cancer, but at least they will breath well for awhile