Is this 9/11 nonsense going to ever go away? ZERO eveidence but still pushing on!

Originally posted by L1U2C3I4F5E6R
When is this so called "truth" movement and conspiracy talk going to end?

Truthers seem rather sanctimonious and believe in the fact that 9/11 was an inside job.

AH! After 9 years everyone lets it go... truthers are closer to the truth than ever before.

HMMM well JFK theories hung on for over 40 years when finally some sense of the truth was made available from people asking for documents to be declassified early, or from just good old fashioned brainstorming!

It seems the OP is not into Justice!

Before this post, I'd like to correct one of the links in my earlier post - the Air Traffic Controller:
www.communitycurrency.org...
Compare that opinion with this story posted on USA Today:
www.usatoday.com...
Notice how they completely avoid any mention of normal protocol for intercept, any attempt to contact NORAD or the Pentagon, and write that the controller spent all the time telling planes to get out of the flight's way.
Here's the opinion of another ATC:
www.prisonplanet.com...
Here's another news story, notice how passive the story is from the ATC - nothing about regular protocol, they don't take any action until the hijacked flight is approaching Washington DC, when they call the White House directly (ha!). Intercepts are only mentioned passively "by this time NORAD has scrambled 2 fighters", and in another "I thought Langley had scrambled some fighters". In other words, complete bull#. It's a lie.
Analysis from 14:36 to 17:10, it's in German, but has subtitles, first video on forum.
pilotsfor911truth.org...
He has not lost his job for incompetence, so the only conclusion can be official cover-up of false flag.
(by the way, that whole video is related to the overall event, there's even more in it, and it's all pretty heavy hitting)

Let's talk about explosives in the towers, shall we? Out of all that I posted before, that's probably what's going to be attacked logically the most. The most steadfast defenders of the OS think they have that angle covered.
First however, I'd like to show where I have made a mistake, specifically in including the angle cut pillars, as that was done afterward by cleanup workers:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
I also saw video elsewhere showing the workers actually doing that.

I stand corrected. However, at the same time, there is enough evidence from witnesses on the scene and afterward concerning the number of blasts. Also, going with the hypothesis that the people within the government planned this event, which is supported by the extremely high number of improbable coincidences that day as well as the one time refusal to operate by the country's air response system, it would be logical to assume that whoever it was did not want the buildings to have any chance to only suffer minimum damage. They were built to extreme specifications and were some of the strongest buildings on the planet. I'll let the witnesses speak for themselves:

In this one, you can ignore Alex Jones if you like, but it has videotaped testimony on the scene by Barry Jennings, where he says he was in WTC 7 and heard repeating explosions all around him. He then said that the stairwell collapsed and later when finding their way down, they were walking over bodies. There's a hit piece by the BBC on Jennings mentioned, probably something along the lines of questioning his competence about the bodies and the explosions. Note: Jennings died shortly after saying he'd been threatened and told to shut up.
www.youtube.com...

To add to the testimony above (not the same tower, this was tower 2):
These three guys are in the hospital, injured, and are doing an interview with a TV station. They mention explosives, say the stairwell in that building had collapsed as well, mention laying on the ground and people stepping on them while going past. Now, in light of that, does Barry Jennings testimony sound more logical now? The same events happened in both buildings.
www.youtube.com...

Here's a slow motion video - check out all the little focused blasts going all the way down preceding the collapse front. Also has the firefighters talking specifically about it, which is probably a good part of why they have their firefighters for 9/11 truth website right now:
www.youtube.com...

These witnesses already had all the relevant information apparently:
www.youtube.com...

"secondary explosions going off every 15-20 minutes", talks about police believing there may have been explosives in the building, firefighter: "There's a bomb in the building, start clearing out", basically this one is full of references. Note especially the firefighter who said an explosion came UP the stairs (9:01)....
www.youtube.com...

Why had the fires reached 2800 degrees F, and why are the fires still burning after 8 weeks? In the below video, someone is questioning Dr Gross about "molten steel". While I accept the debunkers' statement that the amount of molten metal leaking from the 80th floor of the building is probably from the plane, what I am paying attention to here is the listed high temperature and a direct statement by Dr Gross of how that is impossible under his theory of how the building collapsed.
The NIST analysis lead Dr Gross agrees, there is no possible way that the fires could have reached anywhere close to that temperature. This video shows him making that argument, along with the backup information stated here. Also, as steel has a melting temperature of 2750 F, that 2800 F would explain the molten steel. Out of Dr Gross' mouth - "no possible way for the fires to have reached that temperature". The only other explanation? Explosives.
www.youtube.com...

Here's some simple modeling of the scenario:
www.mypeepz.us...

Oh, and by the way for those that would demean William Rodriguez, the janitor who tells everyone he heard explosions inside the tower? That man is a hero. He risked his life to rescue 15 people, making it out just in time before the collapse. Yet some would call him crazy or a traitor. Amazing.

But by all means my pleasant debunkers, tell me once again I have no evidence. Tell me, please. I can keep going....and keep going for a LONG time.

moraloutrage.wordpress.com...

I've been told before that there was no pipeline going through Afghanistan on forums, as it is a quite inconvenient fact, but while watching the German video above, it appears that the planned pipeline is one of the fundamental reasons for war. The reason I had been thinking there was one was because I had read the PNAC documents available and requests from Cheney concerning such a pipeline. Because they specifically mention Uzbekistan-Afghanistan pipeline in the video, I Googled it and out come the results.
According to the following link, you have Uzbekistan making deals with George Bush while he was still governor of Texas, as Enron was based in Texas. I'm betting one good reason why Enron failed was the overall plan fell through when the Taliban blocked the pipeline through Afghanistan (after getting a lot of money in bribes from Enron). Overall, Enron had sunk at least 400 million dollars into the deal, and they were desperate to get a return on their investment. Bush was too closely linked to this, and so was Cheney.

moraloutrage.wordpress.com...
whatreallyhappened.com...

This link also offers supplemental information. The site calls itself "Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan". It has extreme anti-US bias to it (to be fair, anti-Taliban and Northern Alliance as well), but offers some interesting information regarding pipelines - China, Russia, and Iran are building competing pipelines in the area, and we are apparently struggling with them for the resources there. The pipeline information matches what I've read about China's and Russia's pipeline in the past.
www.rawa.org...

Check this out - the coalescing of a plan:
www.viewzone.com...
www.lewrockwell.com...

What I'm saying is this: "terrorism" is a game that the larger players are using as a scapegoat to justify direct action. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book, only it's been used a lot lately. They have been staging attacks, shifting the blame, then using it as a reason for invasion and resource grabbing, or simply to rid themselves of a political opponent (in some countries - China, Uzbekistan, etc). When the US did 9/11, there were a lot of copycat style actions by other countries.
I'm saying that our intelligence services already knew all the information about each of the terrorists, had been following all along, let it happen or even helped it happen / made sure it would happen, and afterward used torture to twist events so that there would be no culpability found on their own part. It has been proven that the FBI had advance information on both attacks - 1993 and 2001 on the WTC, and in both cases the attacks were allowed to proceed to their conclusion. That can only mean one thing.

Basically, if you are the president and you're not getting your way with Congress, what you do is send someone in your inner circle you can trust to talk with ISI or Saudi Royalty. They then send one of their security people to filter through their religious schools for people radical enough to carry out an attack. They get sent to the US to work, supported financially through a series of intermediaries. Then through the Pentagon, studies are conducted to see how the attack could work under the guise of how to protect against said attack. Weaknesses in related security systems and the results of the tests are noted and the plan is refined.
Finally, the specifics of what the patsies need to do is sent overseas to be retransmitted down the chain back to the terrorist cell. The whole time, the cell is monitored by our intelligence agencies as well as any cooperating nations agencies (Mossad). On the day of the attack, the overall security systems simply step out of the way and allow it to go through, as well as possible assistance to ensure success.

From here on in, pay close attention to what tests the Pentagon is running, as it will signal what the next mass encouragement exercise will be.

Would one of your truthers explain something to me?
Since it would take literally thousands and thousands of people to pull off the grandest conspiracy in the history of man, as described by truthers, where are all these people? Out of all these people, not one person has come forward with a guilty conscience? Not one person has misspoke? Not one person has sent an incriminating email? NOTHING ? Each person involved would have a huge amount of paperwork associated with that person and NOTHING ? The government can't do anything without filling out paperwork in triplicate !

It would NOT take thousands of people to pull that off.

Take the guy who testified that he was the air traffic controller for instance. In saying that he didn't follow protocol the entire time, he's practically pleading with us - "here I am, arrest me".
However, in that entire network of CIA planes running drugs there were quite a few confessions of the pilots. However, who is going to confess to killing 3000+ people? It goes against human nature, who wants to be executed or killed by an angry mob? It's a lot easier to say - "I was incompetent, I wasn't there right then, I didn't hear about it until much later....(yeah, the entire process broke down just that once for that event)" and so on.

Originally posted by diginess

Compare that opinion with this story posted on USA Today:
www.usatoday.com...
Notice how they completely avoid any mention of normal protocol for intercept, any attempt to contact NORAD or the Pentagon, and write that the controller spent all the time telling planes to get out of the flight's way.

It's a personal piece about the impact it had on the one guy. The things you're suggesting are suspicious by their absence aren't suspicious at all.

This is the thing about the Truth Movement. Something often changes between reading the summary of what's contained ina link and the actual link itself.

Further, I stipulate that you only really needed 30 or so people to pull this off. Maybe 10 for the demolition team who were probably Mossad, 1-2 "FBI agents", 1-3 top corporate media heads, Rumsfeld, Cheney, the ATC, 1-2 FAA officials, and a few others.
The resources you have at your disposal as VP and Secretary of Defense are massive. All needed tests can be ordered that way with no suspicion. People can be planted within needed positions ahead of time. Deals can also be made with Benjamin Netanyahu, Saudi and ISI, and Taliban.
That would explain why we have not gone after Bin Laden. The explanation for why we are still being fought in Afghanistan stems from China-Pakistan link in regards to competing Russia-Iran-China pipeline.
The people below the top only need to know very limited objectives and have no idea what the overall picture means: "The plane is at 50 miles. The plane is at 20 miles. Do the orders still stand sir?"

So there are a couple of problems here. One is putting titles and lables on everyone from "Birthers" to "Truthers" etc. This disgusts me. Since we're all on ATS, I would assume that we're all Truthers, since we argue back and forth searching for truth on all topics and trying to deny ignorance in all areas. Just don't call me a truther or anything else. That's insulting. It's insulting to put title or label on someone. When you insult someone then you take away the possibility of constructive dialogue and conversation. The second problem is that of asking questions. There is nothing wrong with asking questions and we should all ask questions about everything all the time.

There are quite a few things that don't add up to me about 9/11--I think the best way to sum up how I feel is looking at the 911 timeline. This is the most logical way to go about 9/11. If you start by looking at Paul Thompsons Timeline, you start to see that something isn't right and maybe it's as simple as ignored warnings and how it appears we let Bin Laden slip away into Pakistan. That's enough though, and we should hold people accountable.

The other reason is the government itself. Even if there is no conspiracy, cover up or anything else there would still be issues with the government for not releasing all the information. It's the same basic problem with UFO conspiracies. Release all of the documentation and files and there will be no problems. Where is all the video footage of the pentagon attack for instance, and why hasn't that been released? Withholding information is always seen as shady and secretive.

Just a few thoughts. I haven't even mentioned anything about how the towers were brought down or any of the "controversial stuff". The Denial of ignorance starts with basic question answering.

By the way, remember that book burning in which the Pentagon bought the ENTIRE first release with your tax dollars then proceeded to burn them all? That was Anthony Shaffer, the guy who says that we knew about the relevant terrorist cells well in advance.
en.wikipedia.org...
They did it for national security, don't you know?

Originally posted by diginess
It would NOT take thousands of people to pull that off.

Of course it would !
How many do you think could pull it off and make it look like muslim extremists did it?
Please be specific.
Thanks.

reply to post by jfj123


You are wrong. It is an assumption that it would take thousands and thousands of people. It wouldn't necessarily take even a quarter of that. Then there are some people who would have been given orders to do or not do something, without even knowing they were part of the plot.

Add to that, many of the perpetrators were Mossad and Zionists, the very people who wanted this to happen, so, of course, they are never going to have a stab of conscience and they will never speak out.

reply to post by jfj123



You are forgetting that these people pull off these things all the time, they create false terrorist attacks and blame muslims.

Also, have a look at 'How 9/11 was done' how911wasdone.blogspot.com...

and how he estimates it could have been done with a core group of 12 or so, and 30 or 40 in the next ring out from the core group.

Again, the point I think is important to understand is that there was Israeli involvement. Mossad and Zionists will NOT have a pang of conscience about this and would never betray Israel by letting it slip they had been involved. These people are absolute pros at this kind of thing, and lying is their daily bread.

whatreallyhappened.com...
News stories specific to Urban Movers, Mossad involvement, there's a lot more where that came from. I notice that jf does not read any of the links nor most of the posts, as the questions seem to ignore the content.
www.youtube.com...
This video from Fox has information on many types of Israeli cells, but does not allege direct 9/11 involvement, only that they definitely knew about it ahead of time. Looks like we need to get rid of Amdocs as well as they are a threat to our country.
Note that the four part series done by Fox on the subject is extremely hard to find now. You can still find the whole thing on youtube by going from the first one above and following to the next after each one.
Further, if you want to find results on "Israel 9/11", you'll have to use a different search engine than Google for the most part. Most links have been purged from Google, and it's not hard to understand why when you realize who the owners are.
www.historycommons.org...
Here's a timeline of Israeli spying in the run up to 9/11. It's of particular note that the influx of people trying to get into federal facilities were mostly art students from one specific company, the DEA ran the investigation on that. There were approx. 125 of these "art students". (page 5 bottom, below link)

www.antiwar.com...
Also of particular note is the fact that Israel had a cell in the vicinity of the Florida pilot training sites, and were observing them for at least 3 months. They had addresses very near the terrorists during that time period.
Also of note is the same company mentioned in the Fox news series part 1 is mentioned in the above document, one of their employees is escorting one of the art students into the country, describing him to customs as a "relative". These art students were all Israeli military intelligence.

One thing I wonder about is why the DEA itself was in particular targeted? Knowing that the sites used to train the terrorist pilots also were CIA front companies, and had planes which we know were used to run drugs, it may be that Israel was helping our CIA higher ups avoid a scandal by making sure that the DEA was thoroughly bugged. To the people who say that "surely someone would have come forward", I ask this - though the CIA is thoroughly involved in worldwide drug trafficking, as evidenced by one the same planes reported throughout Europe to be used in renditions having crashed with 4 tons of coc aine on board, have any of our top CIA leaders been arrested and sent to prison?

Also of interest is that while the DEA released its information to us, the American people, the FBI released its information about Israeli involvement only to the Commission, which thereafter refused to release it. This is particularly troubling given that the FBI was also involved in picking up all the security camera footage around the Pentagon and making sure it never saw the light of day.

reply to post by jfj123


Already did, see above.

Just because you aren't convinced or seen enough available evidence doesn't mean it should be dismissed. If you don't want to believe and agree with more than 100 million americans who feel that there is a lot of inconsistency with the 9/11 commission report then will you believe the 41 U.S. Counter Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans?

Patriotsquestion911.com

If Flight 93 did indeed crash instead of "shot down" as "truthers" and 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists say, What is Rumsfield talking about here? (www.youtube.com...)


Just look at the location of WTC #7 and answer the question to how it could have fallen demolition style being so far from the towers.



I have a plethera of information on the subject, but you say you've seen it all. I hope you open your eyes to the fact that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, because the government is already exercising that idea.

Originally posted by jfj123
Would one of your truthers explain something to me?
Since it would take literally thousands and thousands of people to pull off the grandest conspiracy in the history of man, as described by truthers, where are all these people? Out of all these people, not one person has come forward with a guilty conscience? Not one person has misspoke? Not one person has sent an incriminating email? NOTHING ? Each person involved would have a huge amount of paperwork associated with that person and NOTHING ? The government can't do anything without filling out paperwork in triplicate !

edit on 2-10-2010 by jfj123 because: (no reason given)

not true.
first off the government is not affiliated directly with these projects. private sector with military protection.

these people are life term employees and specially profiled selected

they are not a part of society the way you might understand, they live by different sets of rules and practices and do not answer to anyone outside of their secret circles.

they went in fully briefed, took their oaths of silence, and were turned loose to do what they were hired to do, and proudly live untouchable and silent.

they pay no taxes. they're only known by their encryption. paid in cash with no traceable records. and have no desire to talk to you.....EVER

they live in a different reality. an alien reality

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by jfj123

 

You are wrong. It is an assumption that it would take thousands and thousands of people. It wouldn't necessarily take even a quarter of that. Then there are some people who would have been given orders to do or not do something, without even knowing they were part of the plot.

Actually I'm not wrong. It would take a massive effort of both personnel and material to pull off the supposed conspiracy.

Add to that, many of the perpetrators were Mossad and Zionists, the very people who wanted this to happen, so, of course, they are never going to have a stab of conscience and they will never speak out.

OK so now you are involving 2 countries in this plot of yours. It's getting bigger and bigger every time you post.

First, it's important to know what the "truthers" official story is. So could you please post that information? Then we can figure out personnel, material, etc..

Thanks.

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by jfj123

 

You are forgetting that these people pull off these things all the time, they create false terrorist attacks and blame muslims.

Care to prove it?

Again, the point I think is important to understand is that there was Israeli involvement. Mossad and Zionists will NOT have a pang of conscience about this and would never betray Israel by letting it slip they had been involved. These people are absolute pros at this kind of thing, and lying is their daily bread.

Wow so everything is a conspiracy?