The Declaration of Independence - Outdated?

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Ok if you want to present a new declaration then go ahead. Maybe its not half bad. But remember its a political document....ok dozy "Jesus" boy. Some like the baby Jesus others the one with a sword coming out of His mouth. But at anyrate...

Chill out.

It's not a political document "self" boy. The Declaration of Independence isn't about politics. It is about the ability to live life until the end without having stumblingblock after stumblingblock thrown in your path while you attempt to lead a somewhat decent life. The Declaration of Independence kissed no ass... therefore, I would hardly count it as a "political" document.

The reason why I chose the forum "Above Politics" is because this IS above politics. Way above.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

the purpose of my thread is to determine how it would
be wisest to go about such a process.

Ok. So then again I ask...what exactly is it you're trying to accomplish? Is your goal to rally support? To help yourself affirm your beliefs? To create an avenue for others to be able justify rebellion against powers they feel a guilty allegiance to? Or are you trying to remind others that they are sovereign to themselves and have no reason to owe allegiance to governments and corporations in the first place?

Jefferson wrote his own document, specific to his particular purposes. You can do the same. But it's often easier to get where you're going when you have a clear idea of what your destination is.

You make a good point.

My destination, after a little contemplation, is to simply remind people that our freedom cannot be taken away from us. Even at gunpoint, we still have our freedom. Too many people sell their souls for their "liberties". But really, they are just buying their liberties back in return for their slavery. It's so ironic that it's sillly. People don't realize that they do have their freedom no matter what.

And further, my personal stock in it is that, even though I can come here to ATS and be entertained with like-minded individuals, I am an outcast in real life society. I am alone. And people think I'm crazy. And I don't play politics with people to make them like me - I act upon what I think is true.

I am a christian outcast among christians. I am a patriot outcast among patriots. I am a human outcast among humans!

It's just craziness.

And it gets so disturbing because the people who tell me that I am crazy are the same people who think that they do live in a free country and think that they do have freedom and yet they are lazy at work and just do enough to get by because they don't make enough to do a great job and they tell me I am crazy for always working hard and taking my job seriously - and think that I am a hypocrite to care so much about freedom and yet slave despite my salary...

But I work the way I do because I have the freedom to do so and I believe that doing the right thing for the sake of what is right is good work. I believe that the reward system is false and has made the entirety of society weak-minded and practically unknowingly subservient to the system in every way.

It's just sad seeing the world around me be so busy and yet not really truly busy at all. The vanity is insanity. I want people to remember who they are.

People are born with these natural rights and then are convinced that they are ENTITLED by the time they are toddlers because they are spoiled and raised to be politically correct and yet void of honor. But that's insanity because we are born with natural rights but also, in order to exist with eachother we must love eachother - which means personally giving up our own rights to serve others because we choose to do so. Not because we will be rewarded for it! This stupid cut-throat mentality, this crazy "Me and my own" mentality, this insane world which believes that we DESERVE anything... but it's not totally our faults.

Of course, once we come to knowledge of this, it is. But some people, and it shocked me, too, actually don't know any better. I mean... a lot of people don't know any better.

And this is the reason. If we can figure out a way to declare humanity's independence from groups and powers, and bring people to this realization, then I think people will be more free to understand how society has gone wrong and what we can do to truly improve it.

And all we have to do is love eachother and be honest with ourselves.

And the utter irony is that most people won't believe this is possible because everyone else won't do it. "Why should I love everyone else, they aren't gonna do it." Because people are that selfish. People are too afraid to face evil - so they protect themselves with evil.

That makes me laugh and cry inside.

My goal is to cause those who don't know better who would make a difference to know - and also to cause those who would not do better to feel convicted of their wrong when they do it so that their life is not comfortable knowing that taking from others is not right.

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

The Declaration includes a list of acts imposed by the Crown that give cause as to why independence was necessary. More important would be a statement that given similar circumstances we will act again.

Don't get me wrong. I believe that governments should be overthrown - but I think, regardless of Thomas Jefferson's wisdom, which I do believe he was wise, that violence is no longer the answer.

Especially since, if Obama became the next Abraham Lincoln, it wouldn't be with union troops... but with bombs.

I believe that people should not be afraid to die during peaceful protest.

I believe that the government cannot destroy the people whom it supposedly serves and the corporation cannot destroy their slaves because both the government and the corporations require people to exist.

No, strong-arming will not work anymore. It's gone too far.

The reality is that people must be willing to do what is good and what is right and love eachother - because we have the freedom to tell the person who will attack us that they have a choice just as we do. I choose to love, but you choose to kill? You can choose to love as well.

But of course, many will not make that choice. They will kill. And then, more likely than not, their having killed one who was not an aggressor will cause their heart to be severely convicted of their actions and then they will realize how much more they should love.

It is the opposite of terrorism. It is love-ism. Sacrificing our lives, not with bombs on our chests, but with love in our hearts.

It sucks.. it's scary. It's really scary - and more likely than not, we would not see the results of our actions in this physical world. But, if the physical world is to carry on for any amount of time, we will have made it easier, hopefully, for our descendents to live until the end.....

Because the end is going to be bad enough.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
My friends,

The Declaration of Independence is an out dated document. It achieved its purpose, but for a brief time. Soon after we, our forefathers enslaved each other once again under the shackles of the Constitution of the United States.

It is my opinion that a new Declaration is needed. Thus, I have not only signed such a document, but written into my heart, and live by it.

See the Plan at the bottom of my posts, if you haven't already done so.

With Love,

Your Brother

Oh wow, IAM. I just checked out your thread.

You beat me to it.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Oh wow, IAM. I just checked out your thread.

You beat me to it.

Welcome aboard my friend.

Thanks for stopping by. The power is always in the hands of the people.

With Love,

Your Brother

Not another one of these "I need to dust off the declaration of independence in order to justify killing Americans" threads.

That's all these are, you want an excuse to go out and kill your fellow Americans. Well, just a reality check here. This is what happens.

You re write your new "License to murder your fellow countrymen" and then you get a lot of stars and flags and in the end, you do nothing.

You won't DO anything, you just want to act like a big man. You are pissed at the government (probably because a cop took your "bag") and so you want other people to start your revolution for you. You won't actually do anything at all because you are actually content living the way you do. You aren't happy because of some lame issue that you already have the power to change locally if not nationally that you actually refuse to do anything about. So instead you come online and spout how you need to write another "Declaration of Independence" where you list out all the grievances you have with the government, in a pathetic and sad attempt to have others do your work for you.

It's not outdated. It was a declaration of independence from England. It has been added to and clarified in the Bill of Rights, and other laws that have been passed throughout our history. The Declaration is just fine. Leave it be.

reply to post by whatukno


My friend,

If you had bothered to follow the topic, you would have noticed "killing" was never mentioned.

As you are uninformed to the progress of this thread. I will not rebut your uninformed post. If you wish to reread the thread and present an informed opinion, then we will have what's called a "discussion" about it.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by TarzanBeta

The Declaration of Independence - Outdated?

The Declaration of Independence was designed for a specific moment in time, as a starting point. It addresses itself both as a broad statement and one narrowly aimed at Great Britain which was, at the time, the center of government.

These kinds of things do not age because once in place, they are frozen in time and remain as firmament in history.

Now, anyone can write up their own personal declaration or as a collective. The problem arises with these just the same as with our original, national statement; they are either recognized and respected or they are not. In the case of the formation of the US, it was not. King George III and Britain did not respect the separation so there was a war for that independence.

The same thing happened again on 12 April 1861, when the southern US states sought independence from the union. This was not respected by the Lincoln administration and so there was a war for independence which was lost.

No man or nation is an island. Declaring independence is one thing, affirming it is quite another.

I think our Declaration of Independence has earned the right to exist as-is, and remain as viable today as it was so many generations ago.

Cheers

Originally posted by redoubt
No man or nation is an island. Declaring independence is one thing, affirming it is quite another.

You are absolutely correct my friend. Never declare your independence if you are not committed to affirming it.

I AM

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by whatukno
Not another one of these "I need to dust off the declaration of independence in order to justify killing Americans" threads.

That's all these are, you want an excuse to go out and kill your fellow Americans. Well, just a reality check here. This is what happens.

You re write your new "License to murder your fellow countrymen" and then you get a lot of stars and flags and in the end, you do nothing.

You won't DO anything, you just want to act like a big man. You are pissed at the government (probably because a cop took your "bag") and so you want other people to start your revolution for you. You won't actually do anything at all because you are actually content living the way you do. You aren't happy because of some lame issue that you already have the power to change locally if not nationally that you actually refuse to do anything about. So instead you come online and spout how you need to write another "Declaration of Independence" where you list out all the grievances you have with the government, in a pathetic and sad attempt to have others do your work for you.

You don't have a clue what is going on, do you?

Who gave you that star?