America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

reply to post by davespanners


yeah dave and those people and the people like the didnt whine complain or moan about what they didnt have

every single one of them and their kinds got out and did something about it.

not a single one of them has ever had their hands out for nothing.

anyone doing well off or even rich had the drive the will and patience and perverserance to get where they wanted to be.

something the cries babys clearly dont have.

reply to post by davespanners


And the sad part about it is that the list you supplied doesn't even include the folks that are so wealthy they are literally above a dollar value! Families so entrenched in the world power and banking schemes that they literally can just produce the money they want out of thin air! These families and individuals are really the scariest of a bunch of people who are completely removed from the same reality as most humans and yet produce little to nothing of any real value. Very sad..

reply to post by Hefficide


yes i am as a matter of fact while they may think they are as well as you may think you are

if they were as hard working and productive as you say or think they are they wouldnt be where they are now.

and before you start slamming me about aww they havent had the chance or the opportunities that others have had well 99% of those people didnt have anything either.

they saw that they wanted and the all did something about it.

warren buffet was a self made man
bill gates was a self made man
oprah winfry is a self made woman

and the list goes on.

so yes you heard me correctly

reply to post by neo96


SO you think that it is possible to have a world where every single person is a billionaire then? as long as they all work hard enough.

Let me ask you this, who do you think these billionaires are going to employ to earn a profit out of, who is going to clean the streets in your world full of hard working billionaires, how is anyone going to be able to afford to employ anyone to work for them? Who is going to work in a manufacturing plant, who is going to work down a mine?

This is just not possible in a capitalist society. people make a profit by paying employees less then what they can make from the fruition of that labor.
If you want proof of this, why do you think that thousand of jobs in the USA and the EU have moved to India, it's because people get payed less, people that work even harder and longer hours then their counter parts in America yet somehow still end up being poorer then them. How does this fit into your theory that wealth is entirely down to how hard you work?

People in sweat shops in India work 18 hour days making clothes that get sold in the US yet somehow for all of their hard work they aren't rich.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Hefficide

 

yes i am as a matter of fact while they may think they are as well as you may think you are

So in your estimation labor is only based upon income? A construction worker is an underachiever, for example? A carpenter is a slacker?

Originally posted by neo96

if they were as hard working and productive as you say or think they are they wouldnt be where they are now.

Where, exactly, are the 983 out of 1000 in your mind?

Originally posted by neo96

and before you start slamming me about aww they havent had the chance or the opportunities that others have had well 99% of those people didnt have anything either.

I wasn't even pondering making excuses for the hard work of 98.3% of the population. Many of whom are the driving reason for that wealthiest 1.7%.

Originally posted by neo96

they saw that they wanted and the all did something about it.

Originally posted by neo96

warren buffet was a self made man
bill gates was a self made man
oprah winfry is a self made woman

How does the success of these people diminish the work accomplished by others?

reply to post by davespanners


no its not possible for 350 million people in the us to become billionaires and its not something that is remotely possible for the simple fact 98% percentage are financial morons.

it truly is sad to say the opportunities are there or use to be..but from the non stop slaughter of the financial and banking system of america is nothing but a shell of its former existence.

every single tool that americans has had in the past has been destroyed.

this country grew and thirved because the us was where the money was thats not the country we live in today.


americans makes stupid choices and live beyond their means. examples of this a buying homes they cant afford buying cars they cant afford buying things they simple do not need buying name brands. and they have no clue of what it means to save.

all those things that americans of the past didnt do or even think about doing. its the instant graitfication of todays society.

nobody wants to work for what they have they all want it given to them.

the housing bubble bursting is a prime example of this but another example of this is take any lottery winner for the past 20 years. over 95% of those people who had their dreams come true go bankrupt with 1 or 2 years of winning.


anyone can succeed in this country every single one of us can have a better if they would just plan prepare and make wiser choices than they currently are.

maybe not be billionaires but they can become more wealthy if they just started thinking and doing instead of bitching and whining about what other people have.

reply to post by Hefficide


last time i checked a carpenter makes some good money



you have it backwards man its that 1.7% that people even have jobs
its that 1.7% that you people have a place to go get a loan for a car or a house
its that 1.7% that makes all those cool little things like ipods xboxs,ps3s all those little things that the majority of americans just can live without.

without them the life you lead would be a hell of alot worse than you think it is.


like a said in the above post to other people. making money is one thing but the majority of americans ARE fiancial morons.

they are all too busy wrapped up in the i want it now mentality. they dont think they dont plan and they dont prepare or even save a dime.
they are too busy buying the latest things
they are too busy buying brand names
they are too busy buying homes and cars they cant afford.

americans of the past would have never even thought about doing half the crap that todays society does.
that is a fact and when americans thought like that
that is what built this country
that is why this country grew
that is why it prospered
it was because the money was here

the only thing here now is the debt.

Originally posted by neo96

it truly is sad to say the opportunities are there or use to be..but from the non stop slaughter of the financial and banking system of america is nothing but a shell of its former existence.

every single tool that americans has had in the past has been destroyed.

this country grew and thirved because the us was where the money was thats not the country we live in today.


americans makes stupid choices and live beyond their means. examples of this a buying homes they cant afford buying cars they cant afford buying things they simple do not need buying name brands. and they have no clue of what it means to save.

So if the gap between rich and poor is entirely down to people being lazy / bad with money then how do you explain the fact that the gap now is more or less the same as it was in the 50's 20's 1900's when according to you people were much better at working and making financial decisions the same holds true in nearly every single country (apart from a few tax exiles) . A small number of people owning 90% of the wealth?

reply to post by davespanners


is the gap really the same are you accounting for inflation?


your summation of lazy and bad with money is a good one those things that small group of people who are wealthy arent.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by davespanners

 

it truly is sad to say the opportunities are there or use to be..but from the non stop slaughter of the financial and banking system of america is nothing but a shell of its former existence.

every single tool that americans has had in the past has been destroyed.


[/quote

God you are a fool...

The non stop slaughter of the financial and banking system???

That is so (???????) its almost comedical in nature

Did you crawl under rock two Septembers ago, maybe hung out with W when he hid away?

Einstain, we are pretty screwed because those industries you exalt deal in B.S, fake ass money, binary code.

This country is in the toilet because we do not value hard work or quality. Instead we peddle junk and do our damnedest to cut our own population out of the American Dream, our own F$#@ our own consumer base out.
Each year the wagons circle, closer and closer... this is my goddamned country too, you and many have been programmed to believe this horseshiz, I don't buy it one bit. I see a nation of hard working people and if we don't wake up this little boo woo routine is gonna see us third world.

lol its funny to read that rich guy complaining having to pay taxes. GOOD! let him remember what hte working class has to go through, being taxed and taxed to death, just as king george was doing to us prior to the revolutionary war. good let the rich snob complain. In fact, i hope he and the rest arre taxed so much, they will actually have to get up and get a 2nd job*
as for leaving. I love this country! the governemnt sucks, as we all know. As another member here stated..ther arnt many greener places overseas.. i mean, your stuck here, having been born here. Ide like to argue that, becuase IF this is a global eceonomy, then we all should have the right to go and leave as we please...the only thing keeping us from doing os, is government* most countrys, central america has guerilla and rebel warfare, and a poor eceonomy. souther america, is semi socialism and cocain, as well as the occasional body parts snatchers* China, japan have enought to worry about, let alone having to totaly re adapt and re learn a new way of life and culture hoping to fit in for survival, IF they accept you. Europse isnt big enough for 100 million of us. As for INdia, phillipines..its all sweatshop countrys. americans moving their would be mistreated and enslaved into making nikes and levis jeans, for minimal $$$. seems like the only real safe cool places are Australia and antartica...and perhaps canada.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Now here's the real question, how do we set up a fund so that YOU can join them?

Has to be a place with zero internet access as part of the deal though.

How does Yemen sound? I'll look around and see if I can get a fund started!

If he doesn't consider himself wealthy then maybe he needs to look at how he spends his money.

In my opinion people who have this much money almost always have a ton of credit cards, which is usually what they live off of, they waste money on frivilous items. I have seen it time and time again.

How can this guy make that much money and have no retirement? I dont even make 20k a year but I still manage to save my money and even fund my own trip to Europe in December without the use of a credit card. It's called budgeting!!!

Maybe people shouldn't rely on credit since iMO it's what gets most people in trouble anyways. I have no sympathy for people who make tons of money and then waste it and cry that they have nothing. I know plenty of people in this category and it amazes me how they complain about not having any money yet they don't see the big picture of what they spend their money on.

As for taxes, I do think they are too high for everyone. I don't think that just because you make more money you should pay more. These people earned their money and shouldnt be penalized and have to pay more because of it. I think they just need to learn how to live within their means.

I thought a few folks would like the story and some would hate it.

Tell me folks, where do you think the founders of this country would of stood. Do you think they would of wanted to tax individuals at 50-75% of the their labor (property)?

Do you think they would gang up on their fellow citizens saying wo is is me?

Do you think they would of sided with the tyrant King George over their fellow man?

Seems the Traditional Monkeys have come out in droves to attack their fellow monkeys-

It all started with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, a banana was hung on a string and a set of stairs was placed under it. Before long, a monkey went to the stairs and started to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touched the stairs, all of the other monkeys were sprayed with cold water. After a while, another monkey made an attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys were sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, anytime another monkey tried to climb the stairs, the other monkeys tried to prevent it.

After a couple of days, the cold water was removed. One monkey was removed from the cage and replaced with a new one. The new monkey saw the banana and wanted to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attacked him. After another attempt and attack, he knew that if he tried to climb the stairs, he would be assaulted.

Next, another of the original five monkeys was removed and replaced it with a new one. The newcomer went to the stairs and was attacked. The previous newcomer took part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, a third original monkey was replaced with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey took to the stairs, he was attacked. Most of the monkeys that were beating him had no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they were participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys had ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approached the stairs to try for the banana.
Why not?

Because as far as they know, that's the way it's always been done around here.

And by the way whatukno, sorry, not so easy on getting rid of me. I have a different plan then attacking my fellow citizen.

Ever hear of ghandi? MLK?

Peaceful non compiance. I do not consent to be ruled. I do not consent to un Constitutional color of LAW.

Seems the statists are getting worried. They are doing things that normal people are waking to how CORRUPT our government has become.

Look at Murkowski as an example. They knew that the "Radicals" were going to get in power so they are going to pull out all stops to try and stop the redress of grievances.

Problem is, there is no way to stop it, the statists have already lost. What are they going to do? Throw 60% of us into prison?

What you going to do whatukno? To keep your statist slavery system in power?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

And by the way whatukno, sorry, not so easy on getting rid of me. I have a different plan then attacking my fellow citizen.

Oh cmon, it will be fun, tell ya what, we can try and petition the country of Yemen to change their name to New Alaska! We can help create a conservative paradise with no government whatsoever! No government, no laws, no taxes, no socialism! You could have a completely free market, with no regulations at all!

A utopia of free trade and supply side economics awaits in Yemen (New Alaska)!

What you going to do whatukno? To keep your statist slavery system in power?

Just tryin' to help man, just tryin' to help. See, brainstorming some solutions for you and your conservative friends. We set you up with your own country, that way you can run it however you want and don't have to deal with things like taxes, or laws, or healthcare, or even that pesky 13th amendment which I know you hate so much.

Heck! It will be your own country! Make up your own constitution! Make it better! More conservative! Outlaw things like other religions, gays, minorities, Bill Maher, Michael Moore! I'm tellin ya, this is a great solution! We can encourage all conservatives to go to New Alaska! And bill it as the conservative paradise on Earth!

Originally posted by neo96
250,000 isnt jack squat in todays age.

Maybe he can sell one of his boats, some stock or the motor home, perhaps their cabin in the Hampton's? Poor little guy! I hope he finds some more tax shelters so they can continue to eat steak and lobster and have those big pool parties that make life worth living.

If this guy wants to leave the country, I think he probably should. I can't find ANY sympathy for him. As someone who makes less than half of what he makes, lives well within my means and has no debt... nope, I just can't find the sympathy.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

 

Now here's the real question, how do we set up a fund so that YOU can join them?

Has to be a place with zero internet access as part of the deal though.

How does Yemen sound?

I'll look around and see if I can get a fund started!

Lmao, God I love you and Saltheart.

What is it with Americans and there fear of taxing the rich? The rich have only been able to become rich and flourish because America has been a country with vast opportunities, the opportunities have been created by all Americans. The rich have benefited from the labour of those who have built America and those who have protected America. It is down to those who have built the infrastructure of your nation which allows individuals to prosper and take advantage of the opportunities. The rich need to realise that their wealth was not created in a bubble and relied on the blood and sweat of others.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Tell me folks, where do you think the founders of this country would of stood.

They have already rolled over in their graves so many times it's not funny! We would never be in the pathetic situation we're in if the founders were in charge. It's hard to say how they would get us out of this mess, but we're not starting from the same starting line as they were.

So, even though I don't think they would support taxing the rich more than the poor, this boat is about to capsize and we can't pretend (well some of us obviously can) that we're starting out on level ground (or calm seas). Sorry for the mixed metaphor. We are not in a default state. We are near to collapse. The wealthy have had it too good for too long with their tax shelters and other tax breaks... Something has to change to get our financial situation beck on an even keel.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Hey BH, like the sig. Am I one of the changes?

Yeah, the entrenched power brokers-Federal Reserve, IMF, Mega corps and the Huge Federal Government have us in a pretty pickle.

The last figure I came up with is each American taxpayer owes $1.25 million. When you going to write a check to take care of your part BH? I already sent them mine. It is an IOU. Should be worth about the same as the US dollar in a couple years!