Side Of Hate Served With Your Religion?

What I find most amusing as of late on ATS (I've lurked for years) is the current trend of the putting down of religions. It's amazing how the dial has been cranked up lately with the rise of the Muslim Mosac at ground zero to well everything. Religion seems to be taking hold of several people. Even those such as myself are subject to having to sift through debates about it here and on the tube as well as the radio. What I find most amusing, is how so many will quickly criticise the Muslim faith and their extremist saying it's a deadly religion. What these individuals forget (Which are more often then not of the Christian/Catholic sects) is that many religions have been at the very root of civil unrest. How quickly these Christians and Catholics forget about the Crusades. In my humble opinion, the human race will never reach it's full potential until religion is left buring at the stake. When people are held accountable for their own actions and understand that no one is going to save them from themselves is the day we as a disorganized race will rise above such trivial bs. After all, a vast majority of the current main religions have borrowed beliefs anyways. They've just been rehashed to fit those that currently adopt them. Thoughts?

Your mistake is throwing out the baby with the dirty water from the bath.
The problem is not religion, or morals or evolution, it is the immense puffed up self important narcissistic humans, who need to justify their own insignificant lives, and so latch on to something and distort it for their own purpose.

Take out the humans and nobody has ever died from religion, be it evolution or christianity

reply to post by Jenisiz


Genesis-
The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

Isaiah-
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

1Corinthians-
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Originally posted by Jenisiz
In my humble opinion, the human race will never reach it's full potential until religion is left buring at the stake.

I use to once think that humanity would be best served if we immediately left the need to worship perceived supernatural entities behind us.

Now i see religiosity in general,like an extremely old oak tree , whose roots have merged with the foundations of civilisation . Any hasty attempt to remove it root and branch, could prove calamitous.


The strangler fig trees of Angkor Wat- Thailand come to mind.

Re Bluepill

You wrote:

"Take out the humans and nobody has ever died from religion, be it evolution or christianity"

What a peculiar statement. Ofcourse nobody would die, if humans are taken out, because there wouldn't BE any humans, who could die.

Whereas religion, evolutionary or christian would appearently still hang around as some abstract harmless concepts. The question is, where did they come from, if there are no humans?

I bow to this wisdom.

reply to post by Jenisiz

I think the Iman from New York summed up a widespread sentiment.
The problem is not religion, or any particular faith.
It is the extremism or supposed literalism in every religion. That medieval use of scripture has made a resurgence in the last two decades.
I have friends who think calling Genesis 1-2 a "myth" or "fable" is denigrating it. I don't agree. A multitude of deep meanings can come from symbolism. Taking it literally however implies we can quote one verse against another and put the book back on the shelf. It's such a sad approach.

Re Rustami

You wrote:

"Genesis-
The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

Isaiah-
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

1Corinthians-
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."


It certainly explains everything.


Whereas my omniscient mouse Henry has said:


"It's terrible to be a zen mouse. As soon as you open your mouth, people start believing in what you say, because it fills out the empty spaces they have inside".

reply to post by bogomil


great, eh, you and Henry may like these copies of what other men wrote also zen-

Galatians-
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels

These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai

2Timothy-
God's word is not chained

reply to post by Jenisiz

How quickly these Christians and Catholics forget about the Crusades.

Please don't delude yourself into thinking anybody on ATS would ever be permitted to forget the crusades, not even for one day.

Thanks for the reminder of the hour. I'd almost completely forgotten it!

Originally posted by Jenisiz
What I find most amusing, is how so many will quickly criticise the Muslim faith and their extremist saying it's a deadly religion. What these individuals forget (Which are more often then not of the Christian/Catholic sects) is that many religions have been at the very root of civil unrest. How quickly these Christians and Catholics forget about the Crusades. Thoughts?

Putting the term *hate* into your topic title relegates you to one more of the masses who jumps on the term du jour regardless of the accuracy of said term. I chuckle when I see terms such as hate abused as it has been.

While religion in and of itself has a historically proven track record of acting as a dividing force, it can only do so when individuals allow it to do so. Just like you cannot be offended unless you allow yourself to be offended. I find the term *offended* to be approaching the same level of triteness as the term *hate*.

Sun Tzu did a remarkable job of providing us with the insight needed to see past this divisive tactic and see it for what it is. Apparently, he didn't do so succinctly enough since it still goes on and is still as effective as he warned it would be.

Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics......or whatever else........such are merely means for dividing and ultimately conquering those who wish to pick a side. What those who pick a side don't realize is that the game has been previously stacked with the knowledge that you will choose one of the aforementioned and will then be readily used as was expected upon the initial use of the hot button term.

It follows the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid.

If I am the current *king* of the hill, it is far easier to keep the subjects fighting each other over menial things than for me to actually spend the time and effort that would allow them to realize that they are indeed subjects. It is far easier to sit back, pop some corn, throw out a few strawman boogey men and enjoy my popcorn while watching the subjects battle over their perceptions of reality. As the *king*, I will make certain to toss out a few terms du jour via whatever mass communication network is available so the subjects don't realize that they are mere pawns in a game.

Until we collectively realize what we are and determine to strike at the heart of those who see us as their pawns, the game will continue as it has for millenia. There is no rocket science involved. It is merely a study of history and how man has allowed themselves to be manipulated using things such as religion, race, etc.

Sun Tzu is laughing in his grave knowing that he figured this out long ago, gave the playbook and the only ones who have utilized his playbook are the ones currently controlling the game rather than the players in the game utilizing his playbook to take control of the game.

reply to post by Jenisiz


My friend, religion is not Man's problem, it is just his latest excuse. Take religion out of the equation, and we will murder and hate each other over politics. Take politics out of the equation, and we will murder and hate over money. Take money out of the equation, and we will murder and hate over land. You see where I am going I am sure.

The problem isn't religion my friend. It is much more sinister than that. Mankind is being cooked alive by powerful organisations. See, when life is good, and all things are plentiful, Man is a happy creature. When he is loosing his livelihood, his home, life is getting tougher to survive in, he lashes out at what ever he perceives to be the cause. Fortunately, we have a mass media which provides ample amounts of causes. Illegal immigrants, Muslims, Democrats, Republicans, Gays, Straights, what ever enemy you would like to vent on, flip a channel and you can find a story on how they are ruining your life.

What you won't find is the real cause of your sorrow. The masters who control it all and delight in having us divided and fighting amongst each other. As long as they can keep us fighting, they can profit off our despair, and control us more efficiently.

Dance my marionette, dance...

With love,

Your Brother

reply to post by bozzchem


Well said my friend, well said indeed.

With love,

Your Brother

Re Rustami

You wrote:

"Galatians-
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

I add:

"Galatians
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."


Not that Henry or I ascribe any value to it, but apart from being part of Paulus agenda to hijack the Jesus movement, the good scammer also succeeds in being at odds with himself, while he was selling the Brooklin bridge.

How can you love people, if you curse them for disagreeing with you?

Henry and I have to speculate on, if this selfcontradiction is zen. Possibly a koan (a kind of logical paradox used for enlightenment).

If that is true, it can lead to a revival of the old question: "Was Jesus a budhhist?"

Re Bozzchem

Agreed.

But there's still the essential questions left:

When does an offense change into an agression? If this guy returns every evening and P on my house out of spite.....

And what do we actually DO to tell the dictators in spe to bugger off?

Turning the other cheek hardly stops them, and preventive violence is ofcourse out of the question. I believe an initial verbal resistance gives a good warning signal.

That is, if you're not out too late and book-burning and censorship already is a fact.

As you can understand, I'm serious about this. So please, do you have any practical suggestions?

Originally posted by JenisizHow quickly these Christians and Catholics forget about the Crusades.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/5194fe57c36072c8.png[/atsimg]

Trust me, no one be it Christians or otherwise can forget about (drum roll please?) The Crusades. It's been talked about, discussed, thrown in everyone's face (at least twice), presumed, exhumed, dismantled and put back together again. Trust me, we know all about it like the back of our hand. So *thank you* so much for reminding us about it... Goodness gracious we not bring up *The Crusades* each time Christianity is discussed, or better yet, talked down upon.

But I think you seem to be forgetting something... Sure, the crusades were a dark part in Christianities history... Oh, did you see that? History, yes, that's right, history. This happened how long ago and is still being discussed today like it's Christianities version of Hitler... But (dare I say it?) Christianity has evolved. (Unlike Islam which is still stuck in the middle ages.)

When is the last time you've heard of a Christian priest discuss the beheading of all those who do not convert? Now, when is the last time you've heard of an Imam discuss the beheading of all those who do not convert?

When is the last time a Christian stoned to death an adolescent youth because she was raped/fell in love with the wrong boy/didn't wear a vail? Now, Islam?

You see, despite Christians being pretty much a peaceful religion on each tier down to the individual believers and up to the priests, people like you still dog on Christianity, bringing up (aforementioned drum roll please) *The Crusades*.

Yes, Christianity once, long ago in a galaxy far far away had crusades... Christians MUST be evil because of it right?

Well, in your closed little protected world, ever think that maybe, just maybe *GASP!* Islam had (drum roll one last time) *Crusades* as well? I bet that never occurred to you huh? That Islam also had crusades... So, should we add that to the list of things we don't like about Islam too, just like you do with Christianity? I mean fair is fair right? And it's not like we don't have enough crap on Islam over the past ten years with current things they've done...

I don't mean to single you out and I don't mean to bring this off topic. I just get soooooooo sick of hearing, "Zomg! Christians had crusades!!111ones, they MUST be evil! Never forget! Crusades! Crusaaaades!"


And for your reading pleasure, see this link for a quick look back into Islams crusades. You might be surprised at what you learn.

www.answering-islam.org...
+ Many more via Google.

Re Frontkjemper

Yes, it's quite repetitive and boring. Just as repetitive and boring as the constant attacks on liberal society from 'christian' fundamentalism. Attacks which are still happening.

That the religionists usually aren't beheading anyone these days, maybe could be ascribed to a general public reluctance to the practise rather than humanitarian principles on the part of religious extremism.

I don't know if you have a very bad memory, no knowledge of history, big blinkers or consciously try to confuse issues. But a big faction of 'christianity' has from day one been a movement of backstabbing, infiltration and violence. Inside as well as outside 'christianity'.

The crusades were just one little bit of it.

reply to post by bogomil


My friend,

No Man is innocent of these things which you speak. It is quite boring to watch the same battles with different competitors regardless of the topic. Every Man is has blood on his hands, every single one. We all have played our part in creating a world where evil runs wild and rules our hearts with an iron grip. If we are not directly out there in the fight, we sit on the sidelines giving applause, placing bets, and relishing in the carnage. If that is too much for our taste, we cover our eyes and ears and pretend we are not a part. Some are moved to rage against it all, shouting hate at the hate and a steady stream of fuel to the inferno. Still others prefer to stay at home so they can claim their innocence, yet this inaction allows the action to take place.
There are a rare few who see this bloodshed and carnage, and seeing they have not the power to stop it, do there best to doctor up the combatants, heal the injured bystanders caught in the cross fire, and feel that they have done some good in the world, yet they too are cursed. They quietly mind their own peace their own salvation. They cured the bodies and buried the dead when they could have stood between the combatants and said NO MORE!

Yes, every Man is guilty!

And every Man can be forgiven. And, they will be.

They will be once we stop this madness and learn to love each despite our differences. Learn to stand up for each other peacefully. Learn to stand in the way of violent opposition. Learn to sacrifice ourselves that our children may have a better tomorrow. Learn that we cannot rule each other, and that ALL must be free. Learn once again that we are all Kings and Queens of this earth, and act like it.

Love all, judge not, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by bogomil


I suppose first one has to know what the good news is right? the condemnation is obviously self inflicted

Galatians-
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

even Peter agrees with Paul now what?

Acts-
the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

reply to post by bogomil


beheadings? which "religious" extremists was that again?

Revelation-
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

James-
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress

reply to post by Jenisiz



Hello Jenisiz-

It goes farther than just religion, it has to do with our lifestyles as well, but like you said, religions all have "borrowed" tributes.

From the day we are born we are told what to do and how to think, what we can and can't do. We hold ourselves down by telling each other "you can't do that, thats impossible."