15 Hours 18 Minutes

I have been thinking lately about how long it takes the average person to really begin to research the info surrounding 911.

For years many of us have been dong research and I noticed that we seem to be all talking on different levels of research.

Many times we have to restate facts and repost videos because new people join ATS and do not know the same info.

Daily I witness posters derail threads with simple questions that have been answered years ago.

We argue about one facet of the event at a time.

However, only when one corraborates the wide spectrum of evidence it begins to paint the real picture.

I began thinking of a documentary type of tv or internet program which would take average everyday individuals from several countries and walks of life and expose them to the myriad videos and documents which they are unaware of. How long would it take for the average person who is still in the matrix to research history to learn the truth.

The answer was in the event.

911 divided by 60 equals 15.1833333. Now I admit I am horrible at math but thats what I came up with.

So 15 hours and 18 minutes.

Thats what I feel one would have to put in to even BEGIN to call themselves versed in 911 info.

So we take 20 people, just about right amount for a reality TV audience to identify with without losing the personality of each person.

We get extensive info from them regarding their understanding of current geo=political events through taped interviews.

They dedicate the minimum 15 hours and 18 minutes to the info we provide.

We then ask them the same questions and then test the results.

I have a solid feeling that if you came to the table as a supporter of the official story and then watched and or read 15 hours and 18 minutes of info you will have a much different opinion.

Not some thread where it gets derailed and sidetracked.

You in a room with the info.

I am serious about this.

I can only imagine the great video we would have of people literally waking up in a documentary.

Then we condense it down and make a documentary film where people who still hold on to the OS could watch it and see themselves in the participants.

Of course we would have the specific 15 hours and 18 minutes of footage-info available on line so that you at home could do it as well.

What do you guys think

reply to post by Game_Over


If you think there is a coherent truther truth that anyone can be educated to accept in 15 hours plus would you please spell it out.

Originally posted by Game_Over
The answer was in the event.

911 divided by 60 equals 15.1833333. Now I admit I am horrible at math but thats what I came up with.

So 15 hours and 18 minutes.

I'm curious where you got 60 from to begin with. Is it an arbitrary number or is there some significance to it that I'm missing? Also, it wouldn't be 15 hours and 18 minutes but rather 15.1833333 hours which is actually 15 hours and 10 minutes. In your defense, you did say you're horrible with math.

reply to post by Game_Over


I have a better idea .

Let's take those same people, set them in a room with all the available material , and give them 78,840 hours to prove 9/11 was an inside job .

365 days in a year x 24 hours in a day x 9 years = 78,840 hours .

Originally posted by Game_Over


I have a solid feeling that if you came to the table as a supporter of the official story and then watched and or read 15 hours and 18 minutes of info you will have a much different opinion.

The toughest part would be deciding on what would go into that 15 hours and 10 or 18 or 45 minutes or whatever the total you decide on is.

Do you include wackjob Judy Woods and her dustification?
Do you include space-based destructo beams?
Do you include the Pilot's for 9'11 Truth club and their claim that they were not real aircraft because a real aircraft would break into a thousand pieces at 420.1 knots
Cruise missiles were used instead of airplanes
The airplanes were indeed airplanes but were remote-controlled
The airplanes fired a missile into the buildings a nanosecond before impact;
The airplanes has special pods attached to their undercarriage
The airplanes had “forward spraying fuel sprayers” installed to help enhance the explosion of jet fuel
There were NO AIRPLANES AT ALL
It was a Global Hawk
It was an A-3 Skywarrior
It was a painted-up KC-135 Tanker aircraft
It was done with holograms
There were missiles fired from the Woolworth Building in NYC
Pre-set charges blew the holes in the WTC to LOOK like an airplane hit
The media (ALL the media) is in on the charade
The aircraft/missiles/whatever were invisible!
The various videos of the WTC2 impacts do not match up because…well…ummm….even though they were filled from….ummm…different locations….
The passengers never existed
The passengers existed but were loaded up onto another aircraft and were shot down over the Atlantic
The passengers are living in exile somewhere
Barbara Olson (wife of former Solicitor General Ted Olson and a passenger on flight 77 that SUPPOSEDLY hit the Pentagon) was arrested in September of last year in Germany or Poland or West Snoblovia with a bajillion counterfeit lira (never mind the fact that Italy has not used lira since 2002)
The steel melted
The steel didn’t melt but buckled
The steel didn’t melt or buckle, it was cut by thermit
It wasn’t thermite, it was thermate
It wasn't thermate...it was NANOthermite
It wasn't5 thermite/thermate/nanoanything, it was a bomb in a truck carried up in an elevator
Controlled demolition is what brought the towers down
A small nuclear bomb is what brought the towers down
Lasers are what brought the towers down
A particle beam is what brought the towers down

I SWEAR....every single one of the above I have read somewhere on the Internet at some time or another over the past half dozen of years - and that list is by no means all inclusive.

If anyone else has any to add to the list, please feel free - I'll retain configuration management of the master list.

That's a lot to cram into 15+ hours.

If you think there is a coherent truther truth that anyone can be educated to accept in 15 hours plus would you please spell it out.

I SWEAR....every single one of the above I have read somewhere on the Internet at some time or another over the past half dozen of years - and that list is by no means all inclusive.

Like the OS, mostly being defending by the same zealous lot, mostly attacking the real truthers who do provide real evidence, credible sources, and science that blows the OS lies out of the water.

We have read all the assumptions of how the OS believers lump all truthers in the same boat as hologram planes, hush-boom bombs, magic laser beams from space fired from space aliens, and ect… just as you say, “I SWEAR…. every single one of the above I have read somewhere on the Internet at some time or another over the past half dozen of years,” .which is to ridicule all the truthers anyway many of you can, because most of you enjoy it, and many of you can get away with it. I agree with OP anyone who spend just a few hours doing a little research will realize the OS is all hogwash.

It certainly appears many OS believers do not use or lack common sense and logic.

I feel bad for even replying because it is an obvious troll thread, but I just have to point out how utterly ignorant people are;

Do you include wackjob Judy Woods and her dustification?

Everyone can plainly see and observe this phenomenon and draw their own conclusion. To deny it via character assassination is absolutely deplorable logic skills.

The pulverization of steel and concrete into dust is a real observable event. Judy Woods hypothesis is just that.

Of course at this point I have not begun to think about what material would go into those fifteen hours.

I just imagined that in about 15 hours you could get a base understanding of the events surrounding the event.

such as historical precedents of false flag terrorism. such as the contradictions regarding prior knowledge.

such as the relationships behind the scenes and who the benefitted from 911.

I just feel that when you isolate one event such as the twin towers falling and people argue about that they are often not taking into consideration the other evidence of government involvement in events like this.

i just feel like we are arguing over isolated points all the time and that is our weakness.

it is only when you take the big picture in that it starts to become clearer.

I am not trying to troll or start controversy.

I am interested in prgressive ideas from ATS members regarding a 911 documentary about real people devoting 15 hours and 18 minutes...or whatever math breaks down 911 into hours and minutes...to reviewing information that may instigate a paradigm shift.

of course the debate revolvng around what or what not to include would be fierce...that is expected.

but i truly believe it is important to read ALL info regarding 911. The most obscure internet poster may reveal the most interesting item.

It is 2010 and any people have entrenched into one camp or another. That being said, most of us TRUTHERS were OS supporters at one time and that is a fact that those who still support the OS seem to not understand.

I am interested in DOCUMENTING the AWAKENING of people to 911 TRUTH.

I believe that if Joe Six Pack were to identify with a person participating in the show and SEE the person grow from a OS supporter to a TRUTHER it would encourage that person to go online and devote their own 15 hours 18 minutes to 911.

Perhaps it could catch on and people would no longer even consider opinions of someone who has not at least conducted their rudimentary research.

Kind of like how posters always jump on people who are not actually architects or pilots.

We take these posters who slam truthers at heart when most of the time they have not done any research.

We argue with them non stop when the can barely be accountable for reading the entire thread they derail, let alone any serious research.

So my dream is that one day, a troll will come on ATS and post a reply like, WHY WOULD OUR GOVERNMENT EVER HURT ITS OWN PEOPLE, and we can instantly send them a link to our 15 HOURS WEBSITE. If they dont want to research, using the power of the internet, then why are we wasting our time.

I want to take this mainstream.

I want YOUR GRANDMA to bring up 911 truth at your cousins wedding...like she does about AMERICAS GOT TALENT.

Originally posted by Game_Over


i just feel like we are arguing over isolated points all the time and that is our weakness.

Your "weakness", if you want to continue calling it that, is the fact there is no "there" there. That is why there are so many cockamamie theories and speculative imaginations out there from you people. Nukes? Nanothermite? Conventional explosives? Explosives in planes? Explosives in a truck? Planes? No planes? Different planes? No anti-aircraft missiles fired at the Pentagon?

Yes, it really is hilarious because you Truthers really have no capability to rationally and sanely look at this thing. Your hatred of George Bush skews absolutely every and anything to the point people will say there were holograms or nukes.

Again you are fixated on the towers.

There are many aspects of the OS that suggest we have not been told the truth. Some of these include, prior knowledge, pilots trained in america, able danger, operation northwoods, cheneys stand down order as told by mineta, shanskville, sibel edmunds, pentagon strike, cell phone calls from air, harley man, bin ladens relationship with america, berry jennings interview with avery, terrorist id survives explosion, rodriguez bombs in basement, EPA said air was good to breathe, phil berg, daniel pearl, fake bin laden tapes, even those involved with the commission said it was a sham, patriot act, booker elementary shenanigans, heck doesnt the fact that henry kissenger was going to lead the commission raise flags.

seriously, there is enough anomalies in the OS that even if the towers fell perfectly normal from plane impact and fire we would still have many questions that would need reinvestigation.

Do you get it now. I am not trying to tell you how the towers were brought down. I am telling you that there is way more to this story than what happened in manhatten and only with a substantial amount of research can you begin to really grasp it all.


And i am not proposing having a discussion regarding my stance. I am a truther. the purpose of the documentary is to have the participants make the realization that 911 was not as the OS story told them. and using their interview from before their research and after would illustrate this.

i am looking for suggestions from ATS members on if this is a good idea to pursue. Keep in mind the documentary wouldnt be about the info it would be about the peoples transforamtions or their refusal of the info.

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Game_Over


i just feel like we are arguing over isolated points all the time and that is our weakness.

Your "weakness", if you want to continue calling it that, is the fact there is no "there" there. That is why there are so many cockamamie theories and speculative imaginations out there from you people. Nukes? Nanothermite? Conventional explosives? Explosives in planes? Explosives in a truck? Planes? No planes? Different planes? No anti-aircraft missiles fired at the Pentagon?

Yes, it really is hilarious because you Truthers really have no capability to rationally and sanely look at this thing. Your hatred of George Bush skews absolutely every and anything to the point people will say there were holograms or nukes.

Trebor....

*I* only use:
-common sense
-deductive reasoning and
-logical thinking...

I don't hate any past president, nor the one in office currently.

*I* can tell you that YOU do not know the actual events that transpired because
your inept mind couldn't see what many intelligent people out there saw and heard and witnessed.

YOU lack empirical data and like a 5 dollar parrot, you repeat what you've heard.
Like a broken record you simply keep on with the same old tired drivel that you yourself
aren't even aware that you spew when you speak.

You OBVIOUSLY do not know the basics of elementary and rudimentary education because
your curriculum teaches you only ONE thing:

Obey daddy, and STFU.
Do not critically think, and do not use an open mind.

Why don't you open up some real reading material, research the makeup of
the type of plane that was said to crash 4 times on 9/11 and then...

Learn how to utilise addition and research the makeup/composition of the 2 towers...
Then when you figure out that the nose of ANY commercial airliner could NEVER have survived the impact
even if the building was made of candy canes...ask yourself HOW the nose was recovered
at the Pentagon?


Get back to me when you have a modicum of intelligence necessary to
facilitate an intelligible discussion of 9/11, k?


If you cannot find the sources of the information posted might I suggest
due diligence, and humility is needed to form an intelligent opinion on the subject
because clearly, you haven't the aptitude.

The aforementioned traits are prerequisites to understanding how anything works.

No one needs to tell you HOW the towers fell that day in order to satisfy your strawman of
an argument/position when clearly you cannot piece together A+B to conclude it doesn't equal potato.

reply to post by trebor451

Yes, it really is hilarious because you Truthers really have no capability to rationally and sanely look at this thing. Your hatred of George Bush skews absolutely every and anything to the point people will say there were holograms or nukes.

We have read all the assumptions of how the OS believers lump all truthers in the same boat as hologram planes, hush-boom bombs, magic laser beams from space fired from space aliens, and ect… just as you say, “I SWEAR…. every single one of the above I have read somewhere on the Internet at some time or another over the past half dozen of years,” .which is to ridicule all the truthers anyway many of you can, because most of you enjoy it, and many of you can get away with it. I agree with OP anyone who spend just a few hours doing a little research will realize the OS is all hogwash.

You just proved my point.

Do you believe if people would take at lease 15 or 18 hours and read the scientific findings from credible experts and read the FOIA that has been obtained, by professionals that proves the OS is mostly lies? Do you believe this will wake people up?

www.ae911truth.org...

www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

These are not “opinions” these are proven facts.

Originally posted by impressme
www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

These are not “opinions” these are proven facts.

Wrong again, they are just opinions, not facts. One only has to look at the front page of the "pilots for truth" and see them posting the lie that "FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT "

Then there is their support for April Gallop, who claims flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, yet on December 6, 2007 April Gallop and her son received a settlement from American Airlines Inc.... so she claims no plane hit the Pentagon, then sues and wins a settlement from AA....

They are not interested in the truth at all!

Originally posted by Chinesis

If you cannot find the sources of the information posted might I suggest
due diligence, and humility is needed to form an intelligent opinion on the subject
because clearly, you haven't the aptitude.

The aforementioned traits are prerequisites to understanding how anything works.

No one needs to tell you HOW the towers fell that day in order to satisfy your strawman of
an argument/position when clearly you cannot piece together A+B to conclude it doesn't equal potato.

Feeling a tad insignificant, are we? Wasn't it Gandhi...or Gallagher....who said first they laugh at you, then they laugh some more, then they laugh uproariously, then they laugh you into insignificance? We are close to the latter stage, I surely hope.

I am quite happy that my "due diligence" and my ability to "form an intelligent opinion" on this pisses off the Truthers. Having worked in the Pentagon before - and after - the attack and being a one-time member (one year removed) of the Navy unit that lost 42 of the 50 people assigned to it, I probably have more credibility and experience with that event than 99% of Truthers - especially you. I was a mile away from the Pentagon when it was hit and saw the fireball as it rose up in the sky. My experience was nothing big and in no way am I claiming it is. I did not see a plane - I did not see any "fly-over", either, although I was in a perfect position to see one had it have occurred. I have 1250 hours in Navy tactical jets so I know aircraft and aeronautical "things". The last thing I need is to have someone like you lecture me on a "nosecone" being recovered at the Pentagon. You seem to take people's word on these events literally. I would submit you also believe a "train" plowed through the WTC because of people claiming it sounded like a freight train:

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118] You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down

BTW, 2 and a half feet behind the tip of that fiberglass/laminate 767 nosecone is a titanium and steel bulkhead that is the mounting bracket for many pieces of electronic equipment. Rational and sane minds will understand and grasp that *this* is the "nosecone" that was being referenced. Could it have survived? Most definitely yes - if the nosecone impacted a window first, the rest of the path to the A-E drive wall was nothing but sheet rock walls and the standard office detritus of cubicles and desks and chairs, et al.

So tell us...are you a no-planer? A hologram-planer? A modified-planer? A Pod-planer? A A-3 planer? A Global-Hawk planer? A fly-over-the-Pentagon planer? A cruise-missile planer? A space-based destructo-beamer? A nano-thermiter? A truck-bomber-on-an-elevator? A mini-nuker? A missile-firer? A Plane-swapper?

Please let us know what one of the myriad speculative imaginations you subscribe to so we have a better, more fixed target to direct our uproarious laughter.

And trust me when I say I don't care in the least what you or every single other Truther thinks. Therein lies the rub...they are uninformed and ignorant minds speculating and guessing on events that occurred because they lack the ability to understand and cannot process the data. Truthers strive mightily to shoehorn every event of 9/11 into some "inside job" cubby hole, regardless of the inanity and "out-there-ness" of their imaginations, making themselves sound increasingly and utterly ridiculous with each new "theory".

Truthers exist for nothing more than simple comic relief in this world. I know you people like to take yourselves seriously, and I hope you keep doing just that. It makes my ISP cost per month much more worth it.

"*I* can tell you that YOU do not know the actual events that transpired because
your inept mind couldn't see what many intelligent people out there saw and heard and witnessed.

YOU lack empirical data and like a 5 dollar parrot, you repeat what you've heard.
Like a broken record you simply keep on with the same old tired drivel that you yourself
aren't even aware that you spew when you speak.

You OBVIOUSLY do not know the basics of elementary and rudimentary education because
your curriculum teaches you only ONE thing:

Obey daddy, and STFU.
Do not critically think, and do not use an open mind."

Why don't you open up some real reading material, research the makeup of
the type of plane that was said to crash 4 times on 9/11 and then..."

Here we have a very good description of a truther!

Then when you figure out that the nose of ANY commercial airliner could NEVER have survived the impact even if the building was made of candy canes...ask yourself HOW the nose was recovered
at the Pentagon?

Here we have yet another example of a truther telling lies - where is any evidence at all that a nose from a aircraft being recovered at the Pentagon? No evidence at all, no photo's, no witness claiming that they saw a aircraft nose, so a truther just makes it up!

Originally posted by impressme

www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

These are not “opinions” these are proven facts.

Would that be the "11.2 g's" Pilots club?

Would that be the "when an aircraft hits its "design limit", it breaks. Period." Pilot's club?

Would that be the "radar only tracks a target based on what has been put into a flight plan" Pilots club?

Would that be the John Lear - moon base/aliens member Pilot's club?

Would that be the "a 757 will break apart at 420.1 knots" Pilot's club?

lol...there is a reason not one single Professional Pilot's union or association or group has ponied up to support Captain Bob Balsamo's club despite the fact he has lobbied them to listen to his snake oil. He - and his band of outliers - are insignificant. Its funny how you and others think these PfT pilots are all right and tens of thousands of other professional pilots and organizations are wrong.

The FAA has a few professional pilots in its ranks. They, too, have been lobbied by Captain Bob Balsamo to listen to his snake oil. Same with the NTSB - a few aviation professionals in their ranks. The results? I don't have access to the emails or responses, but "derisive laughter" or "indignant insult" are the phrases that come to mind.

Hitch your wagon to whatever star you think is climbing, I say. If you continue to think this club of Bush-Hating, Inside-job claiming, US-government-did-it-accusing, wacky-aviation believing pilots is that climbing star, good luck! The rest of the world's aviation professionals disagree, though.

I think you have a great idea. There's lots of information out there, sometimes I think TOO much, but as you say, threads here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) always get caught up certain details and a piece of information gets corrupted and washed away on purpose. Personal attacks (if only mild) get in the way of real discussion. Opinions get called facts and vice versa. It's a mess.

A 911 reality show would prevent people from sidetracking the information. Not only that, reality shows are very popular. If someone could figure a way to do a show on it, I think it might be very interesting. I don't know if it would bring ultimate success (I'm assuming success to you would be convincing people that 911 was an inside job) but it's a novel idea, that's for sure.

One thing I would suggest would be to stay away from the far out theories (like there were no planes) and stick to the more down-to-earth information, like the demolition of Bldg 7. Because that one piece of information is what convinced me that there's more going on that the OS. Get solid evidence and professional opinions on that and you may be able to plant reasonable doubts in people's minds.

I wouldn't try to convince people that the government did it all. Between the official story and the whacked out theories, lies the truth, I believe.

Good thinking!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


THANK YOU.

Thank you for finally responding to my actual post.

The contstant attempts to derail this thread are admirable but not effective.

You are the first person who has actually commented on my proposed documentary series.

You see the beauty of the proposed series would not be on the actual inforamtion we present but on the transformation of those exposed to the informaton.

That being said, the real hummdinger of the show, the legacy if you will, would be the fact that the entire 15 hours whatever minutes of information presented to the participants in the experiment would almost never be featured on the actual TV program....it would instead be advertised and linked to so that the average person could go and view it, just at the TV participants did, on their own.

Thereby making each person who actually followed the links and info become their own participant in the 911 truth investigation.

Notice how TREBOR or whatever, has not striked back against the dozen or so items I brought up regarding the OS.

I did.

Dude, if you want to derail a thread fine...that is the glory of the internet.

But at least argue against what i am presenting.

Take all those items and use your little argument machine to knock them down ONE BY ONE.

PLEASE WE ARE BEGGING YOU.

I want to be like you and believe the OS. I really do.

But I cant.

And I have the feeling that if you were to research, FULLY, each one of those dozen plus items I spit off the top of my head, you couldnt either.

Prove me wrong.

Copy and paste EACH ITEM I DESCRIBED AND EXPLAIN IT USING THE OS,

I dare you.

Do you get my point....you are actually the target of my proposed documentary series.

Do you want to participate in it.

let me know. until then #inue with your attacks...which BTW were described a milleia ago by scholars.

go ahead and laugh at us...most of history is riddled by people like you and people like us.

learn it live it.