Travis Walton (Moment Of Truth) Proof, Hes A Liar!!

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by MarrsAttax

 

You're wrong and way off the mark. We all learned about this hoaxer through the public record. I read everything about it and came to a conclusion based on the public record: Travis Walton reeks of liar and hoaxer.

This is what you said and what I took issue with (my emphasis)

Since I don't accept tales of abduction, not accepting Walton's is a given

To paraphrase "Abductions are not real therefore the Travis Walton abduction is not real"

Therefore your conclusion was made first, by your own admission.

Are you now retracting that statement?

Originally posted by The Shrike

Walton and his 6 (or 60 or 600, 6000, 6,000,000) cohorts pulled a fast one for the money and fame.

Is this a belief or do you 'know' this?

Of course it's highly likely a group of men would want to be suspected of murder and be interrogated by the Police for a shot of fame.

And these 6 are of now rich and famous of course. So famous I'd have to go and look up their names.

Ah but Travis himself is rich as evidenced by the fact that he felt he had to appear on a tacky game show for a chance at winning some money after being laid off from work. That makes sense.

In my opinion you yourself have the belief that this story simply cannot be true and therefore isn't. Therefore no amount of evidence is likely to sway you from that belief.

I must say your own 'evidence' is even shakier than Travis'.

Travis Walton reeks of liar and hoaxer.

Reeks? Is that a scientific term?

The facts uncovered show that he made it up.

This appears to be nothing more than assertion on your part. Present these facts and let us make up our own minds. We shouldn't need to take your word for it.

To you and to all other believers replying that Walton's story is truth. Let me repeat mysel: belief is the result of mental conditioning. You believe something because there is no evidence to prove it. When there is evidence, belief is not a factor, knowing is.

Ad hominem attack on people who disagree with you. Still no facts.

Personally, I do not know if the story is true or false. You are wrong to characterize everyone who doesn't automatically dismiss these claims as 'believers'.

I wouldn't call InfraRedMan or Maybe...Maybe Not 'believers'. They are true skeptics who suspend judgement until all the facts are known (most of the time ) . They base their conclusions on the evidence and if the evidence isn't enough to make a conclusion they suspend their judgement and leave the question open.

You are correct that in this case there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims. However, it is wrong to assume that because the claim cannot be proved it is therefore false. That would be a logical fallacy and an example of non-critical thinking. As are presenting opinion as fact and making judgements based on intuition.

This is my contribution to this thread. Take 10 minutes out

and watch it. You may find out what a skeptic really is

instead of your own delineation of what you think it is!

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Yes especially we would not be talking about aliens if not for the UFO.
Have fun with your alien talkers and texters brought to you by Tesla.

reply to post by SaturnFX


You wandered into Aliens and UFOs by chance.
Seriously Tesla created this mess.
Thanks for helping out.

reply to post by KIZZZY


I like the definition at UK Skeptics www.ukskeptics.com...

After inquiry, a skeptic will form a conclusion on an issue (should sufficient robust evidence have been available to justify one); however, this conclusion is a provisional one that may change if better or newer information comes to light. This aspect of holding a provisional position on matters gives skepticism the beneficial attribute of being self-correcting. There is no dogma with skepticism: no matter how sound a conclusion appears there is always room for it to be shown to be wrong by new evidence.

Note how the conclusion should come after the inquiry never before.

Originally posted by MarrsAttax
snip
You are correct that in this case there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims. snip

Enough said.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Yes especially we would not be talking about aliens if not for the UFO.
Have fun with your alien talkers and texters brought to you by Tesla.

Sorry.. the only thing I can ascertain from that post is that your obsession with Tesla isn't getting any better. He was a great man, of that there is no doubt, but he isn't responsible for everything that you attribute to him... which is basically 'everything'. Over the years the tales have grown taller... kind of like what you are doing now. You are inflating the legend and turning him into a mockery. You do your hero a disservice by distorting the truth,

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


If skeptics are concerned about a lack of evidence from Travis Walton, how about some evidence of the negative result of the lie detector test when he got a false answer? We didn't get to see anything - we just have to rely on the show's producers to believe that they would not deceive anybody. Because no-one lies in Hollywood do they!!!!

These lie detectors read blood pressure, pulse rate and moisture on the skin etc. When you are on a stage in front of an audience you get nervous and guess what? Your pulse rate increases and your blood pressure rises and under hot stage lights you start to sweat.

Remember the statistic that people's biggest fear is public speaking...even before death.

I have been performing on stage for over 25 years as a musician and I even still get nervous sometimes.

This whole result is spurious and I'm sure Michael Shermer would agree that these results do not constitute a serious scientific investigation....its just a dog and pony show, in fact Michael Shermer probably damaged his own reputation by even being a part of this circus act.

Apologies Infrared Man - this reply was not directed at you, I just hit the wrong button, I just wanted to post a comment.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by MarrsAttax
snip
You are correct that in this case there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims. snip

Enough said.

Not really.

Saying there there is not enough evidence doesn't mean there is no evidence.

Furthermore, the lack of a definitive conclusion does not mean that the premise is false.

Also, the fact that there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims doesn't mean that the claim that he is a liar is proved. A skeptic would know this. It is Logic 101.

By the way, you've still not presented any facts that have led you to your conclusion. This would seem to be a necessary first step in making a case that Travis is a liar.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


I'm confused. he truthfully thinks that there is tons of evidence that he was abducted but doesn't truthfully think he was abducted?

reply to post by snusfanatic


Hence why this thread only has 10 flags.... even the skeptics can see how flawed this whole piece of "evidence" is.

Another thought on this negative result.....

Did anybody notice that if the answer was positive it would have cost the show's producers another $75,000 and possibly even more $$$$

I'll bet that did not come in to consideration at all........

Why didn't they ask this for the first question???? That would not have made good TV............

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown
reply to post by snusfanatic

 

Hence why this thread only has 10 flags.... even the skeptics can see how flawed this whole piece of "evidence" is.

Indeed. This lie detector show BS is meaningless.

IRM

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown
These lie detectors read blood pressure, pulse rate and moisture on the skin etc. When you are on a stage in front of an audience you get nervous and guess what? Your pulse rate increases and your blood pressure rises and under hot stage lights you start to sweat.

Huh? And pray, what has a stage appearance gotta do with a polygraph test? Are you aware that on stage (In this program) you are NOT connected to a lie detector? So whether you sweat from all your pores and orifices or your blood pressure hits the ceiling or you sweat enough to fill the Great Salt Lake, it doesn't really matter?

reply to post by OrionHunterX


It's irrelevant. The polygraph method used is discredited. End of story.

reply to post by Travis Walton
Hey Travis,good to see you on ats I for one have always found your story fascinating and believable,if you could clarify a few things about the movie? did the producers follow your exact story or did they dramatize it in any way?also did the aliens show you anything about the destruction of the world as I have read other accounts that the abductees have been shown a screen showing the cataclyisms of the earth or the destruction of our planet did you have that experience?
And lastly do you have any thoughts on 2012?
thanks-valerie

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Yes especially we would not be talking about aliens if not for the UFO.
Have fun with your alien talkers and texters brought to you by Tesla.

Sorry.. the only thing I can ascertain from that post is that your obsession with Tesla isn't getting any better. He was a great man, of that there is no doubt, but he isn't responsible for everything that you attribute to him... which is basically 'everything'. Over the years the tales have grown taller... kind of like what you are doing now. You are inflating the legend and turning him into a mockery. You do your hero a disservice by distorting the truth,

IRM

edit on 4/10/10 by InfaRedMan because: Sorry.. It's Above Top Secret!

Try and talk your way out of the Tesla aircraft theory, you can't.
Open the books on Tesla.
Sure sure give me the great man BS.
He was his own man even with JP Morgan trying to keep a lid on him.
Aliens and UFOs is a generated CIA invention worth their while and
good for many a net forum.
Too bad you feel the way you feel about my stance but you are wrong.

Originally posted by MarrsAttax

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by MarrsAttax
snip
You are correct that in this case there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims. snip

Enough said.

Not really.

Saying there there is not enough evidence doesn't mean there is no evidence.

Furthermore, the lack of a definitive conclusion does not mean that the premise is false.

Also, the fact that there is not enough evidence to prove Travis' claims doesn't mean that the claim that he is a liar is proved. A skeptic would know this. It is Logic 101.

By the way, you've still not presented any facts that have led you to your conclusion. This would seem to be a necessary first step in making a case that Travis is a liar.

edit on 4/10/2010 by MarrsAttax because: clarity

edit on 4/10/2010 by MarrsAttax because: (no reason given)

I provide below the best evidence that Travis Walton and his family and cohorts are liars. It is not the only source. Go to google, type: travis walton hoax - and you'll get 4,100 results. Possibly not all negative for there will always be the supportive gullible, but I'm sure there are a lot of reasonable thinkers who see through the abducted claim b.s.

http://j_kidd.tripod.com/b/218.html
Travis Walton Fact Sheet
By Phillip Klass
Date: Aug 16 1993
Formatted By CammoDude
01-08-2000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travis Walton Speaks With a "Forked Tongue":
-----------------------------------------------

Following are some of the claims made by Travis Walton in reference to his alleged UFO-abduction in 1975 in his book "The Walton Experience," published in 1978 by Berkley Publishing Co.:

"I was arrested for my involvement with others in _writing bad checks_. I paid for that one stupid mistake in jail...Charges were dropped and I was never actually convicted." (p. 146) (Emphasis added.)

The Truth: On May 5, 1971, Travis Walton and Charles Rogers pleaded guilty in the Navajo County Superior Court to the following charge: "On or about the night of February 18, 1971, they broke into the office of the Western Molding Co. with intent to steal and did steal therefrom a quantity of Western Molding checks and on the 19th day of February filled out said checks payable to a fictitious person and signed the name of Robert W. Gonsalves, thereby to cheat and defraud." After the defendants agreed to make restitution of the funds, they were placed on a two-year probation, i.e. they were _not_ jailed.

"There were several exaggerated reports to the effect that my mother, my brother and I were freaks on the subject of Unidentified Flying Objects...Our family did _not_ have any obsessive interest in the subject of UFOs, nor are we UFO 'buffs.'...My brother Duane saw something he believed to be one about 12 years ago, but no one else in the family has seen one. I have talked with him on a couple of occasions about the subject since then, but we never had an overt interest in the topic." (pp. 144-45)

The Truth: In a tape recorded interview with UFOlogist Fred Sylvanus on Nov. 8, 1975, Travis's older brother Duane said: "We've paid a lot of attention to it [UFOs]. We've lived with it for ten years..._we see them quite regularly_." During the same interview Duane added: "Travis and I discussed this _many, many times at great length_ and we both said that [if either ever saw a UFO up close] we would immediately get as directly underneath the object as physically possible. _We discussed this time and time again_!...and whoever happened to be left on the ground--if one of us didn't make the grade--to try t convince whoever was in the craft to come back and get the other one. But he [Travis] performed just as we said we would, and he got directly under the obje And he's received the benefits for it..._I don't feel any fear for his life...I think he's in any danger at all. He'll turn up. All I can say is that I wish I with him..._" (Emphasis added.)

"The NBC television special 'The UFO Incident,' about the abduction of New Hampshire couple [Betty/Barney Hill], was aired several weeks before our November encounter. So, of course, a rumor was started that we seven [crew members] had all seen the show and been inspired to fabricate a story like it..._not one of us had seen that show_." (p. 143) (Emphasis added.)

The Truth: In the book "Ultimate Encounter," dealing with the Walton incident, author Bill Barry quotes crew chief Mike Rogers as admitting that he "did watch the first part of it."

Travis claims that his mother "was terribly upset by my disappearance and had to be sedated." (p. 145)

The Truth: According to Deputy Sheriff Ken Coplan, who was present when Travis' mother first learned that Travis allegedly had been zapped and abducted by a UFO, "_she did not act very surprised_." According to Coplan, Travis' mother calmly replied: "_Well, that's the way these things happen._" Then she proceeded to tell about her own and son Duane's UFO sightings.

"Why didn't I accept the money offered by the [National] Enquirer for my exclusive story? I turned down many offers from writers and movie producers...All I wanted then was to be left alone to think things over and adjust." (p. 143)

The Truth: According to Jeff Wells, one of the National Enquirer reporters who was sent to Arizona to meet with Travis and investigate the case: "If we liked the story, and it could be properly documented, and the kid [Travis] could pass our lie detector tests, we would open our check books all the way and start talking in five figures...The test lasted an hour and I was in the ne room fending off the [CBS] TV crew when I heard [Duane Walton] scream: 'I'll kill the sonofabitch.' The kid had failed the test miserably. The polyg man [McCarthy] said it was the plainest case of lying he had seen in 20 years.. I sat down to detail everything that had happened in a 16-page memorandum designed to kill the story. It was all over."

Travis' story of being zapped by UFO beam on the evening of Nov. 5, 1975: "...when a tremendously bright blue-green ray shot out of the bottom of the craft...All I felt was the numbing force of a _blow that felt like a hig voltage electrocution_...The stunning concussion of the foot-wide beam _struck me full in the head and the chest_...My body arched backward, arms and legs outstretched, _as I was lifted off the ground. I was hurled backward through the air for 10 feet. My right shoulder collided with the hard rocky earth..._" (p. 28) (Emphasis added.)

The Facts: On Nov. 11, shortly after Travis reappeared, he was given a physical examination in Phoenix by Dr. Howard Kandell and Dr. Joseph Saults. They found no evidence of physical injury, such as burns or black- and-blue marks anywhere on Travis' body. Dr. Kandall did note a small mark in Travis' right elbow "which was compatible with a puncture wound such as when somebody takes blood from you."

The morning after the incident, law enforcement officers examined the dead brush pile near where Travis had been standing when he (allegedly) was zapped by the UFO beam. There was a thick carpet of dry pine needles. _None of the pine needles showed any evidence of burning or blast effect dispersal, according to Deputy Sheriff Chuck Ellison_.

If The Story Told By Travis And His Six Associates Were True, There Should Have Been Physical Evidence Both At The Site And On Travis' Body.
Yet There Was None_.



Philip J. Klass
Washington, D.C.
March 10, 1993

reply to post by The Shrike


Quoting Klass is like quoting Greer. Chances are a fair bit of it is total bunkum. Klass was the guy who accused a dead man of *Drug Running*, namely Valentich, on live TV.. You should be a tad more wary of your sources. That's not to say some of it isn't correct but Klass was as proven a hoaxer and inventor of *facts as Meiir is . He also claimed the chief scientist who worked on the data from Shag Harbour was * demonstrably insane*. Another lie, the guy died of Alzheimer's many years after the incident.