It's official - RELIGION = Right Wing, ATHEISM = Left Wing.

It has finally become distinctly clear in the minds of the world at large.

Religion has become the preserve of Right Wing thinkers and practitioners, Atheism & Agnosticism have become the preserve of the Left Wing. Yes, these are generalisations, and don't take into account specific examples. However, as a general rule of thumb, it's sound.

"Why?" I hear ye nutters scream shrilly!

"Evidence?" I hear from those whom I have offended already.

The Pope's conservative, traditionalist views were intensified when teaching at the University of Bonn in the 1960s he was said to be appalled at the prevalence of Marxism among his students. In his view, religion was being subordinated to a political ideology that he considered "tyrannical, brutal and cruel". He would later be a leading campaigner against liberation theology, the movement to involve the Church in social activism, which for him was too close to Marxism.

Quote Source

The pope considers left-wing thinking, and liberal views to be "Tyrannical, brutal and cruel". From the leader of one of the worlds major faiths, who is really meant to be 'apolitical' and not involved in political machinations, this is not only 'rich' but also massively hypocritical.

I think it's fair to say that from most threads that we read about religion and it's associated issues, we generally see the divide between right and left appear most drastically between religious and non-religious peoples. This thread is an excellent example of this - BlupBlup's Atheist Extremism / Pope Thread

The above statement about the pope proves that Christianity in general is trended towards right-wing thinking. Atheism, is arguably trended towards the left, given the Atheist tendencies of Communism and Marxism - and the fact that socialism is based upon equality for all, directly in contravention of religious privilege.

We are now in the midst of setting the 'chess board' for the mother of all ideological battles. The right-wing religious world, is now polarised from the left-wing non-religious world, with extremists and moderates on both sides. Across the world this battle is being played out in different arenas, but with the same teams.

As usual, the ideological battle is at it's fiercest here in the UK - but in a typically restrained British fashion. The left-wing non-religious team found focus in people like Christopher Hitchins, Richard Dawkins, Steven Fry, Bill Maher and others. The right-wing's usual suspects have begun to react, although slowly and without the fiery passion of the left.

Isn't it time we stopped pretending that religion is for everyone? Isn't it time we admitted that religion is only for those who believe in differential rights between people (right-wing), and that atheism / agnosticism is a result of or a cause of being left-wing?

Most of all, isn't it time we admitted that FAIRNESS, LIBERTY and TOLERANCE don't need 'big-government', but do need left-wing, liberal thinking?

Let the arguments commence.

Parallex.

I must disagree as I am an Agnostic Libertarian.

Yes, this is generally true. And it disgusts me personally because as a Libertarian/Centrist I have to witness the dirty and narrow fence fights of these two groups who try to hog the attention of the masses and continually misrepresent each other.

Their idiotic agenda has not only hogged the mass-media but even alternative-media sites like this.

You, dear OP (I have read your posts), are notorious for misrepresenting the right-wing. And Im sure those who misrepresent the left-wing will show up soon too. And then their mudslinging will once again begin.

All the while the top of the Pyramid laughs at the two sides on the bottom. We need more...

bi-partisans
agnostics
liberatarians
moderates
middle class

We need to get rid of the fascists and commies who are running the show.

I have seen many left wing people who are religious; as well Atheist who are right wing,
Christian communism and Christian socialism are very popular among Left Christians.
Heck there's even an group of Atheist Conservatives.
www.facebook.com...
An Atheist Conservative even has his own site.
www.theatheistconservative.com...

Quite a stimulating thread.

In the words of the Pope, is religion really compatible with equality, liberty and fraternity? I very much doubt it. Religion dictates we are separate and cannot be united - unless we submit to a deity. Clearly, you are right to suggest those of conservative thinking wish for religion to become a part of public/political life. Liberal practices reserve the right to separate Church and State, which the right oppose. God's place is the Church, not the legislative branch of government.

Even though great nations, such as the French Republic and the United States both believe in religion being prevented from public life - politicians on right (in both respected nation) support religious involvement. But the irony, American voters feel the urgency to elect figures who are of a religious bias. A recent poll, said the majority of Americans would never vote for an atheist. How Bizarre.

Originally posted by Parallex

Isn't it time we stopped pretending that religion is for everyone? Isn't it time we admitted that religion is only for those who believe in differential rights between people (right-wing), and that atheism / agnosticism is a result of or a cause of being left-wing?

Most of all, isn't it time we admitted that FAIRNESS, LIBERTY and TOLERANCE don't need 'big-government', but do need left-wing, liberal thinking?

Let the arguments commence.

Parallex.

Yes. It is time. But it won't happen.

In a recent thread, I attempted to have an intellectual and philosophical conversation with the OP. His only recourse was to tell me to believe in "Jehovah" and surrender on to him. When I again attempted to steer the conversation into an intelligent one, the OP merely told me he would be ignoring me from now on (threaten me with a good time!) because his version of truth was the only version he was willing to consider.

I feel that this person is a sad representative of many-- people who are only comfortable inside a narrow and shallow mindset. Those who feel that an eternity of suffering awaits them if they dare step outside that tiny area. When engaging these folks, we have no real way of being able to compete with an eternity of hell.

So on opposite sides we sit.

Sad, really.

However, there are those who are willing and happy to meet on common ground. I had a lovely 4 hour conversation with a Catholic man and we discovered that we agreed more than we disagreed. It was fabulous! .

Originally posted by Skyfloating

We need to get rid of the fascists and commies who are running the show.

Why use the proper noun for one and yet for the other, slang?

Again our conditioning arises.

Originally posted by Parallex
It has finally become distinctly clear in the minds of the world at large.

Religion has become the preserve of Right Wing thinkers and practitioners, Atheism & Agnosticism have become the preserve of the Left Wing.

Boy.
This is going to come as a surprise to the United Church.

Didn't Jesus say something about how people show their true allegiance through their actions?
By their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 7:16

Most Republicans CLAIM Christianity because it's the popular thing to say.

What do you think Jesus would say about the actions of George Bush and his cronies? It's hardly a Christian act to start wars on false premise (lies) and recklessly pursue actions that have killed and injured hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT civilians. Whether they're Muslims or not they're still human beings. Jesus said LOVE thy neighbor.

George Bush has brought abomination to Iraq.

Google Images : deformed babies Iraq
Link
WARNING VERY disturbing images

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
I have seen many left wing people who are religious; as well Atheist who are right wing,
Christian communism and Christian socialism are very popular among Left Christians.
Heck there's even an group of Atheist Conservatives.
www.facebook.com...
An Atheist Conservative even has his own site.
www.theatheistconservative.com...

Yes, but we are talking about the general tone, not details and minorities.

Originally posted by infinite
In the words of the Pope, is religion really compatible with equality, liberty and fraternity? I very much doubt it. Religion dictates we are separate and cannot be united - unless we submit to a deity. Clearly, you are right to suggest those of conservative thinking wish for religion to become a part of public/political life. Liberal practices reserve the right to separate Church and State, which the right oppose. God's place is the Church, not the legislative branch of government.

I think western nations have nailed it perfectly by guaranteeing both Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion. There is nothing wrong with keeping Religion out of Politics. But there is nothing wrong with consulting spiritual ideals when practicing politics.

Even though great nations, such as the French Republic and the United States both believe in religion being prevented from public life - politicians on right (in both respected nation) support religious involvement. But the irony, American voters feel the urgency to elect figures who are of a religious bias. A recent poll, said the majority of Americans would never vote for an atheist. How Bizarre.

Thats because public perception is that spirituality comes with a set of values and ideals.

Atheism has not yet been able to advertise its values and ethics to the larger audience.

Fo a really crazy twist, where would you put anarcho-communism? Ze madness!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
You, dear OP (I have read your posts), are notorious for misrepresenting the right-wing. And Im sure those who misrepresent the left-wing will show up soon too. And then their mudslinging will once again begin.

I do indeed 'inflate' my opinions of the right-wing on ATS, as they are so unbelievably prevalent and vocal. Reality means nothing, perception is everything in a fixed medium like ATS. Equality and balance is required, yet we have none.

We need to get rid of the fascists and commies who are running the show.

How nice. I agree with you that extremism - as both are - is not the best way. However I do believe that 'getting rid' of people is not the way.

Parallex.

Originally posted by infinite
Quite a stimulating thread.

In the words of the Pope, is religion really compatible with equality, liberty and fraternity? I very much doubt it. Religion dictates we are separate and cannot be united - unless we submit to a deity. Clearly, you are right to suggest those of conservative thinking wish for religion to become a part of public/political life. Liberal practices reserve the right to separate Church and State, which the right oppose. God's place is the Church, not the legislative branch of government.

Even though great nations, such as the French Republic and the United States both believe in religion being prevented from public life - politicians on right (in both respected nation) support religious involvement. But the irony, American voters feel the urgency to elect figures who are of a religious bias. A recent poll, said the majority of Americans would never vote for an atheist. How Bizarre.

Americans are the ultimate consumers. Their opinions and beliefs are manipulated and often wholly formed by the opinions and output of the media they consume. The fact that most Americans espouse religious freedom, yet practice religious favouritism in their actions and votes is a classic example of consumptive manipulation.

Literally - "They know not what they do."

Parallex.

Originally posted by Alora

I feel that this person is a sad representative of many-- people who are only comfortable inside a narrow and shallow mindset. Those who feel that an eternity of suffering awaits them if they dare step outside that tiny area. When engaging these folks, we have no real way of being able to compete with an eternity of hell.

.............

However, there are those who are willing and happy to meet on common ground. I had a lovely 4 hour conversation with a Catholic man and we discovered that we agreed more than we disagreed. It was fabulous! .

Indeed it is often the case that religion is also the preserve of the insecure. False moral certitude is sought by said people, and is provided by religious thoughts, interaction and 'undue privilege'. If they step outside of their 'comfort blanket' they will have to face the world upon their own faculties - little do they know that (as Benjamin Franklin once said) falling upon ones own faculties helps a person ascend to new heights of capability and achievement.

As you mentioned however, some people apply themselves the religious label, but don't have the negative issues associated with it. These people are rarities and normally provide the most stimulating company an Atheist can find.

Parallex.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Parallex
It has finally become distinctly clear in the minds of the world at large.

Religion has become the preserve of Right Wing thinkers and practitioners, Atheism & Agnosticism have become the preserve of the Left Wing.

Boy.
This is going to come as a surprise to the United Church.

Can you expand on your point? I'm curious about your statement my good cryptic canuck!

Parallex.

Originally posted by Parallex

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Parallex
It has finally become distinctly clear in the minds of the world at large.

Religion has become the preserve of Right Wing thinkers and practitioners, Atheism & Agnosticism have become the preserve of the Left Wing.

Boy.
This is going to come as a surprise to the United Church.

Can you expand on your point? I'm curious about your statement my good cryptic canuck!

Simply that the United Church of Canada, which is Canada's largest Protestant denomination, is known as a hot-bed of social activism and such other liberal activity. From the wiki entry:

In structure, the United Church has a "bottom-up" governance, where the congregation selects its clergy, rather than clergy being appointed by a bishop or other body. The policies of the church are inclusive and liberal: there are no restrictions of gender, sexual orientation or marital status for a person considering entering the ministry; interfaith marriages are recognized; communion is offered to all Christian adults and children, regardless of denomination or age. en.wikipedia.org...

Pretty darn Lefty looking bunch to me...and a social force, not a cult or an aberration. Nice sandwiches too.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Very interesting.

Perhaps an organisation interested in the TRUE Christian ideals? But at the same time, it IS an aberration in that it does not propound undue religious privilege for its' practitioners - just the same freedom that all others value.

Nice input mate!

Parallex.

I do believe lifestyle plays an important role in one’s own determination to embrace or reject religion.

In general I think it’s risky to stereotype with a broad brush and to compartmentalize whole subclasses of people into neat little categories.

In part because so darn many people not only love to assign labels, but wear labels.

Yet I do feel lifestyle of the individual plays a role.

The number of people, who find religion in prison for example, is it just about wanting forgiven on a different level or is an act of combating tedium, and boredom?

The number of people, who reject religion when involved in something horrific like a war, is it just about no longer being able to believe a God could exist in the face of so much needless carnage and death, or because the conflicting nature of some of the gospels that alternately promote war and peace make no sense?

Most people tend to be a product of their individual environment where socioeconomic, geopolitical, ethnicity, and peer pressure all combine to influence and shape the person’s responses and perspectives of the world, with fate, their own choices, simply being the weight of the circumstances and how they respond to them.

Yet if you ever did anything when you were young, whether it was smoking a cigarette or playing soccer, based on a belief that “Everyone else is doing it” it really doesn’t take much more than that simple perception to tempt many people into not just trying but wanting to do what everyone else is doing.

Old habits die hard; boy is World War III going to be messy.

Starred and flagged OP, I think it behooves us all to start having the difficult discussions about what gives religion in general such an appeal, as opposed to the infighting between the religious as to what sect or denomination or faith has the most appeal.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by infinite
In the words of the Pope, is religion really compatible with equality, liberty and fraternity? I very much doubt it. Religion dictates we are separate and cannot be united - unless we submit to a deity. Clearly, you are right to suggest those of conservative thinking wish for religion to become a part of public/political life. Liberal practices reserve the right to separate Church and State, which the right oppose. God's place is the Church, not the legislative branch of government.

I think western nations have nailed it perfectly by guaranteeing both Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion. There is nothing wrong with keeping Religion out of Politics. But there is nothing wrong with consulting spiritual ideals when practicing politics.

Even though great nations, such as the French Republic and the United States both believe in religion being prevented from public life - politicians on right (in both respected nation) support religious involvement. But the irony, American voters feel the urgency to elect figures who are of a religious bias. A recent poll, said the majority of Americans would never vote for an atheist. How Bizarre.

Thats because public perception is that spirituality comes with a set of values and ideals.

Atheism has not yet been able to advertise its values and ethics to the larger audience.

I couldn't have made a better point Sky!

You're right that the freedoms you mention should be held most dearly. I couldn't agree more. This is what aggravates non-religious peoples though. The right-wing religious thinkers propound that Atheism should not be ALLOWED to advertise it's values and ethics (as in that it has none on the religious front), and that Atheists should become subject to religiously affected government / private policy. Clearly, this is undemocratic and is not practicing freedom from religion.

Whereas the left-wing thinkers who are devoid of religious intent, propound equality for all with freedom from religious influence (and latitude to practice to religion) as a fundamental right.

Which is better?

Parallex.