Wellesley, Massachusetts Public School Students Learn to Pray to Allah

Originally posted by sweetliberty
In May of 2010 a parent accompanied a field trip her child was going on. She had some concerns which are stated in the video that prompted her want to experience what the field trip was about. At some point during the visit the students were separated by gender and the boys were asked to join the Muslim adults in their prayer.

This doesn't seem to be an isolated incident. Frankly, I'm not here to judge who is a terrorist or who isn't. I simply feel it clear we all must adhere to keeping religion seperated from our schools.

This is not your typical field trip.

all public schoolchildren SHOULD NOT be permitted to go to ANY place of religion during class time...why?...because religion is a choice and is private, not something that is TAUGHT in a public school. when you interject a specific god, or a specific religion, you have created an uncontitutional stituation. 1st amendment says it quite clearly, and if people can't understand HOW the 1st amendment does this, they need to pick up a research book.

i think a year-long class in high school that spends equal time on 3 subjects: propaganda, critical thinking, and finance, should be required in all public schools throughout the nation.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

I have never, ever heard of school field trips to churches synagogues or Mosques,

Really? You seriously have not? Well it happens alot. There are plenty of schools that send kids on field trips to different religious centers, usually for social studies classes, and its usually junior high. It happens alot and has been happened. Back to my highschool years I even attended a field trip to a Hindu temple and buddhist temple, for goodness sakes.

reply to post by LordBucket


But I believe that the difference between a matial arts class and a public school, is that you pay for a martial arts class, and thus it would be similiar to a private establishment and school to provide instruction. A martial arts class does not, to my knowledge, recieves any public funding.

Hey SweetLiberty, I got into this discussion kind of late. But will put my $200 in, price of inflation.

Being the spiritual type and the Libertarian type, I could solve the WHOLE problem using my Libertarian principles.

ELIMINATE the public schools. PERIOD.

Do not want your child to learn about religion? Send them to the secular one.
Do not want your child to learn about a specific one? Send them to a specific religious one.
Want them to learn about all religions? Send them to a multi-religious one.

See that, the saltheart solves another HUGE problem by using the common sense approach.

PLUS, your schools become more adherent to the parents wishes, the children do not have to be indoctrinated into the nanny state, the parents are given back the power of choice on what they want their children to learn, etc etc etc.

It is like a big win win for everyone. How bout them apples.

Keep ol big brother out of the school and we might actually get our children to learn, instead of having a drop out rate of- in 2007 of 26.8%.

Hmmm, over 1 in 4 do not complete high school.

IMAGINE that. IMO, I was sick of high school by the time I was a sophomore. I usually knew more than a majority of the teachers, being I was a huge reader and also my parents taught me more things than I learned in school.

Most public schools are a joke. More than half of what they teach is social issues. I picked up a curriculum last year and could not believe what half of the curriculum was at one of my nephew's school.

No such thing as separation of church and state, only Congress shall make no law.

Many have it right though, schools SHOULD NOT teach things that their parents do not like.

So question, if I do not want my children indoctrinated into the secular hate fest of religion, the secular marxist social issues, the communist belief that people do not own their own labor, etc etc etc, should I not have the right to have my children exposed to THAT CRAP?

Like I said, time to get the government out of our lives once and for all.

reply to post by RainCloud

RainCloud,

I wonder how you as a Muslim can put up with the bigotry and abuse that is heaped these days at Muslims and what your explanation for it is?

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I don't want my child's public school having anything to do with religion in any way shape or form. All organized religion are curses upon society and responsible for most of the planet's suffering wars and oppression.

edit on 17-9-2010 by hotbakedtater because: l

I couldn't have said it any better.
There really is no place for any organized religion.
I just wish I could give you more than one star.

..Ex

I am very offended. The mosque should be confronted on why what they did is not right, but then again the schoolboard are a bunch of morons for not checking to see what kind of trip they were sending their students on.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by LAinhabitant

 

If it was a prayer ceremony then it would have been performed in Arabic and the kids would not have understood what was being said...

If it wasn't a prayer ceremony then the video is lying.

edit on 17-9-2010 by Truth_Hz because: cos i can

Catholics attended Latin Mass for many years. Others faiths chant "OM".

Many of these people have no idea what is being said. Are you surmising that the prayers are to no avail?

Thank-you for explaining what you mean as I am confused here.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

I have never, ever heard of school field trips to churches synagogues or Mosques,

Really? You seriously have not? Well it happens alot. There are plenty of schools that send kids on field trips to different religious centers, usually for social studies classes, and its usually junior high. It happens alot and has been happened. Back to my highschool years I even attended a field trip to a Hindu temple and buddhist temple, for goodness sakes.

No, it has never happened around here, neither I as a child, nor any of my four children attend a field trip to any churches, synagogue or Mosques.

and my children have been in school from 1974 until the last one graduated in 2006

I even attended a field trip to a Hindu temple and buddhist temple, for goodness sakes.

There are no Hindu or Buddhist temples around here,"for goodness sakes."

Where do you live Calcutta?

Praying by pupils at mosque decried
www.boston.com...

Originally posted by Kokatsi
reply to post by RainCloud

 

RainCloud,

I wonder how you as a Muslim can put up with the bigotry and abuse that is heaped these days at Muslims and what your explanation for it is?

Oh cut me some slack, the Christians have been putting up with bigotry and abuse since they took prayer "OUT" of schools, every year more and more.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
No, it has never happened around here,

Well thats rather interesting aint it? That does not mean that your experiences equate to it never happening.

There are no Hindu or Buddhist temples around here,"for goodness sakes."

Where do you live Calcutta?

Are you seriously that narrowminded? Really? Can you see beyond that bubble of yours? There are 25 Bhuddist temples in Illinois alone, one there I know of has been around since the late 80's, theres another one that was established since the 60's in old town chicago. Theres two that I can recall in Kentucky, they are small but they do exist. California as what? 30 buddhist temples? Many of them are by no means 'recent', they have been around for some time. There are a number of Hindu temples around the US as well, one in Chicago that has been around since the late 70's. They are scattered around the the US, it is not hard to simply go onto wikipedia and have a look at the list of temples.

Think beyond that little bubble you like to live in. There is a world out there and it has been around for years.

Praying by pupils at mosque decried

No doubt it is inappropriate, whether it be a mosque, a temple, a synagogue or a church. Although I doubt that this incident would get as much attention if we were talking about a church.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Whine Flu
Only in America, eh? Wo0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0, Islamification... scary. If this wasn't shown, you wouldn't know about it, so you wouldn't care.

Really, this is kinda like getting a new car. When you see the same car on the streets you think that they're all over the place, but it's all in your mind. They've always been there, but you've only started to take notice.

No it is not only in America.

Hokay, America and Britain then.

Either way, perhaps kids need to be given handguns and instructed to shoot themselves in the head.

Why? I dunno.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz

They were there to learn about the religion not to have a look at the architecture!! The building's only a few years old!



Truth_Hz

About 50 seconds in to the video they speak of and show the permission slip that states that during the visit "we will get a chance to hear from Islam from members of the Cultural Center, learn the architecture of a mosque and observe a midday service."

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
children are indoctinated and forced to abide by a christian calendar.

religious connotations and holy days (holidays) are part of societal institutions which permiate and saturate all aspects of life, and are forced upon youth as a system in which acknowledgment is a mandatory expectation (laws), which is also a form of prayer and reverence towards a god.

minutes after my birth my penis was made smaller due to religious intolerances, and their effort to aim men (amen).

i'm not sticking up for the practice of forcing kids to participate in a faith that ... oh, wait... i do pay taxes ... i guess i do participate in a system that enforces religious obligations onto children and infants. nevermind. i would hate to appear to be too overtly hypocritical.

There are actually numerous sects that celebrate around the winter solstice. not just Christianity.
www.religioustolerance.org...

ATHEISTS: There has been a recent increase in solstice observances by Atheists in the U.S. For example, The American Atheists and local Atheist groups have organized celebrations for 2000-DEC, including the Great North Texas Infidel Bash in Weatherford TX; Winter Solstice bash in Roselle NJ; Winter Solstice Parties in York PA, Boise ID, North Bethesda MD, and Des Moines IA; Winter Solstice Gatherings in Phoenix AZ and Denver CO: a Year End Awards and Review Dinner (YEAR) in San Francisco, CA.

BUDDHISM: On DEC-8, or on the Sunday immediately preceding, Buddhists celebrate Bodhi Day (a.k.a. Rohatsu). It recalls the day in 596 BCE, when the Buddha achieved enlightenment. He had left his family and possessions behind at the age of 29, and sought the meaning of life -- particularly the reasons for its hardships. He studied under many spiritual teachers without success. Finally, he sat under a pipal tree and vowed that he would stay there until he found what he was seeking. On the morning of the eighth day, he realized that everyone suffers due to ignorance. But ignorance can be overcome through the Eightfold Path that he advocated. This day is generally regarded as the birth day of Buddhism. Being an Eastern tradition, Bodhi Day has none of the associations with the solstice and seasonal changes found in other religious observances at this time of year. However, it does signify the point in time when the Buddha achieved enlightenment and escaped the endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth through reincarnation -- themes that are observed in other religions in December.

DRUIDISM: Druids and Druidesses formed the professional class in ancient Celtic society. They performed the functions of modern day priests, teachers, ambassadors, astronomers, genealogists, philosophers, musicians, theologians, scientists, poets and judges. Druids led all public rituals, which were normally held within fenced groves of sacred trees. The solstice is the time of the death of the old sun and the birth of the dark-half of the year. It was called "Alban Arthuan by the ancient Druids. It is the end of month of the Elder Tree and the start of the month of the Birch. The three days before Yule is a magical time. This is the time of the Serpent Days or transformation...The Elder and Birch stand at the entrance to Annwn or Celtic underworld where all life was formed. Like several other myths they guard the entrance to the underworld. This is the time the Sun God journey's thru the underworld to learn the secrets of death and life. And bring out those souls to be reincarnated." 14 A modern-day Druid, Amergin Aryson, has composed a Druidic ritual for the Winter Solstice. 15

INCA RELIGION: The ancient Incas celebrated a festival if Inti Raymi at the time of the Winter Solstice. Since the Inca Empire was mainly south of the equator, the festival was held in June. It celebrates "the Festival of the Sun where the god of the Sun, Wiracocha, is honored." 16 Ceremonies were banned by the Roman Catholic conquistadores in 1572 century as part of their forced conversions of the Inca people to Christianity. A local group of Quecia Indians in Cusco, Peru revived the festival in 1944. It is now a major festival which begins in Cusco and proceeds to an ancient amphitheater a few miles away.

IRAN: Shabe-Yalda (a.k.a. Shab-e Yaldaa) is celebrated in Iran by followers of many religions. It originated in Zoroastrianism, the state religion which preceded Islam. The name refers to the birthday or rebirth of the sun. People gather at home around a korsee -- a low square table -- all night. They tell stories and read poetry. They eat watermelons, pomegranates and a special dried fruit/nut mix. Bonfires are lit outside. 17

I have no problem if it was decided that the calendar be changed. Jesus Christ wasn't born on Christmas day and most people realize this nor did Jesus rise from the dead with the bunnies and eggs on Easter Sunday. The holidays are the days chosen by Constantine to celebrate these things and they have a lot of pagan traditions enmeshed with the holidays.

reply to post by sweetliberty



If you Americans didn't automatically circumcise every male baby born in your hospitals, this could never have happened. Cavaliers aren't allowed in mosques; only Roundheads.

I'm not going to bother singling anyone out here, but I find the level of control that parents want over their children a little worrying.

I've been to numerous schools and some blatantly avoided other religions, and some taught more than one. All were Catholic. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism had problems on my own in a Catholic school that sent me to the library for voicing my concerns. My opinions were not welcome in those classrooms. My mother also used to force me to go to Mass on Sundays long after my faith had lapsed. Back then I can never actually remember being myself - just a drone 'getting on with it'.

I got along a lot better in the schools which encouraged debate/opinion and diversity. In fact my later schools had time devoted simply to learning about other religions, and at times discussing politics in an open environment. Whenever I heard an interesting debate I would discuss it with my dad. It was the first time in my life I actually had communication with an adult which wasn't an order without any justification. It worked out well for both of us and we've very close and knowledgeable about each other's minds to this day.

My point being ... really lots of little things make up your children. Little conversations. Little moments from TV. Little experiences with a teacher or two. Sometimes I see these adults whose world is so black and white, so Christian vs Muslim, so based on having control over everything they're exposed to and I wonder where they came from ...

I suppose the answer is that poor kid whose parents violently prevented them from being exposed to anything other than their own opinions.

If there wasn't a biological connection between the parents and the child you might even call it a cult.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

I was not promoting any kind of religion, BlarneyStone requested that I back up my claims and that is the reason for that post.

How exactly these muslims stirred up trouble is beyond me? Inviting non-muslims into their place of worship, inviting (not forcing/proletysing whatever you want to call it) them to join in with prayer. Surely that is more of an Olive Branch

than any of the westerners have offered?

You keep blaming others for your off topic posts instead of taking responsibility. You are definitely an expert trouble-maker.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by sweetliberty
Where are you from?
I phoned two different schools today, actually three if you count Wellesley Middle School. The first two schools do not have field trips any type of church whatsoever according to the people who answers their phones. One did mention they sometimes take the children, with permission from the parents, to visit The Holocaust Center.

So essentially you phoned two schools and they told you they were not sending any students to any church at the moment,

How do you get whatsoever to mean at the moment?
These two Florida schools do not send students on field trips to churches, according to them, that does not mean all schools across the state and country don’t offer those types of field trips.
Why did you distort this? I simply shared my findings of two local schools.

and through this you have concluded that the only field trip for schools to religious centers are mosques?

Lol, sharing the number of phone calls I made yesterday was simply stating a fact that I made three phone calls to three schools. I started the sentence with “I phoned two different schools today” then realized it was three calls I made to “schools”. I was simply correcting the number of actual calls made to “schools”. I wasn’t comparing the schools to the middle school in the OP but clarifying how many times I phoned schools. I did that for the simple reason of completing the number of actions (phone calls). I’m sorry if it appeared I was comparing field trips and where. What I did was I made two local phone calls to inquire if my former schools offered field trips to churches or the like. Inquiring minds want to know

It is very rare that kids are required to worship and when that is the fact, it should be reported.

I hope a public school never requires students to worship, ever.
In the case of the video in the op, as far as I know, there was no requirement thankfully.

But this islamic mosque is not the first, similar incidences with christian groups/churhes have occured.

I agree.

This is really beginning to look to me as though you are making this a 'muslim' issue when its not.

For me, this is an issue respecting the laws, the Constitution and probably most of all, it’s respecting the rights of ALL people to choose to worship whoever and whatever they so choose to worship as long as it is doesn‘t infringe on our rights and laws. It’s also about allowing everyone the right to choose without being thrown into a bucket of labels, This is about the possibility of uncovering something important and stopping it as soon as possible. This is about parents taking responsibility, the school system taking responsibility, and the public being aware.
I hope I’m not making this a Muslim issue, I didn’t think so. I have no issues with Muslims or any other persons or groups who do not infringe on other peoples lives or choices.
If it appears that I am signaling out a particular race or belief, I do hope it is brought to my attention so I can address the issue inwardly. Some contents in the video and a post from RainCloud
have given me more to think about and to research on. Going with what the poster claims, I can see the members of the mosque in the video aren’t true to their beliefs. Even disrespecting their God through the actions seen in the video. When time permits, I hope to look closer into that.

Thanks
sl

Wow, the thread move so fast, less than 1 day and my post is left behind already. Here some answer to some questions.
OneisOne
1.Why female and male separated during prayer ?
Before a prayer a muslim MUST cleanse him/herself (wudu'), after cleansing, the wudu' stays until you are dirty again (see the wudu link) or you touch a "other gender non sibling", you touch your mother, sisters, grandma etc - wudu' stays. You touch your wife, Miss or Mrs X, your brothers wife/husband, even a single hair - wudu' nullified, thus will render your prayer nullified also. Men are rated higher importance than women, man always in the front followed by boys, then the women and daughters, usually there will be a curtain to further separate the 2 gender. We dont want somebody pervert praying with a hard on watching womens bending dont we ? Its logical after all as said by sweetliberty
Wudu - Cleansing
Wudu' Invalidation

2.Kokatsi How do I view the world response to Islam ?
It is hard to answer because the vast areas of conflict, whats important to realize is that it can be sum up into
- misrepresentation of and about Islam way of life and Muslim in overall -
Non Muslim have their own view of Islam and due to lack of knowledge about the religion - make up a conclusion themself according to their belief which usually biased (you sure want to side with your religion right ?) .
Theres also something wrong with Muslim side too, Islam is divided into 4 major sect, some of these sect are extremist even for other Muslims and sometimes these sect have a bit different syariah/law.
Even though theyre extremist, they are minority but do most damage to Islam way of life. I also dont agree to suicidal bombing, its really stupid to perform suicide in Islam (comparable to selling your soul to the devil), but it happens .
Some political instable areas have landgrab in progress, while fighting for their land, these people yell it it with God name because that place is considered 2nd holiest. This is where the confusion starts, all of "Islam is evil" is because of that 35 acres of Jerusalem. All the war, 911(black ops or not), bombing, espionage, sabotage, occupation, squint eyes etc is because of that 35 acres and it affect the Jews also, Christians is sort of bystander with Jews sympathy. The Jews is clearly winning by far and near.
Islam sects.

3.Visitation to religious place.
Islam allowed Muslim to visit and be visited to religious places, provided they dont participate in the prayer. I can be in a church and see you guys baptist - no problem, but to baptist me - never. Same goes to you visitors, as long youre clean, youre welcome to stay in a mosque. The clean definition might need to be elaborate a bit tho (we have strict law regarding cleanliness) see the wudu' and forbidden/haram stuff.

4.Islam is not a religion, its bigger
Islam is a way of life. While christian and some religion separate life and religion (secularism), Islam does not. Everything is sort of already there, how you should dress, proper etiquette, law (syariah) and punishment(hudud), relations (socials), economy etc. But Islamic country nowadays do not really perform it (except Saudi Arabia), mostly due to strict punishment (hudud) and the country history itself.

5.Islam is dangerous ?
Not at all! You need not afraid of Islam or Muslims, there isn't any reason to be afraid of Islam actually - UNLESS you're attacking it, if you attack Islam, you will have big problem, attacking a Muslim is not considered attacking Islam per se, heck, even attacking countries is still not - Iraq - Afghanistan.
A good example of attacking Islam is the Prophet cartoons/drawing and what the Guantanamo Bay prison officers done to the Koran and the intention to apply Western style rules to Islam country. Some part of the world however is not safe for Islam and sometime its the other way around, avoid that area because both side is not civilized, either Muslim or not muslim.

With these, I hope I answered some questions.

Men are rated higher importance than women, man always in the front followed by boys, then the women and daughters, usually there will be a curtain to further separate the 2 gender. We dont want somebody pervert praying with a hard on watching womens bending dont we ?

In my post last night, I didn't mention this, but this is the single element about the visitation which most concerned me.
That young, impressionable females should be asked to leave the room while men prayed, sends a clear message to them of unworthiness, inferiority and uncleanliness, which I find quite unacceptable to the American way of life.

American women were put in the odious position of having to fight long and hard for our rights, and to see this completely disregarded in this manner is offensive to me. It just is, I'm proud to say it is, and I am not sorry.

Muslim women may submit to this type domination and role of inferiority and submission, but to subject this on young school girls sends a message I don't particularly care for, and patently disagree with. I wonder how many parents had to deal with the question "Why did I have to leave the room during prayer"? later that evening. What did they say? Girls aren't "good enough"? Girls will pervert the prayers of the all important males?

Also...........there is nothing "perverted" about looking at a woman's behind, or a woman looking at a man's for that matter. We don't really seem to have that much trouble "controlling ourselves", and I don't know any men or women that I consider "sex maniacs" who are unable to control themselves. These people usually wind up in prisons, or mental hospitals.

The fact remains. There is a huge cultural difference here.

I realize everything I've said is old news. And I think it is urgently important for all of us to understand the other religions as a valuable education. I actually don't even have an issue with the children visiting the mosque. It could have been a great learning experience.
But I do think the presentation overstepped it boundaries, and not in a small way. In a big way. Maltreatment of women is not something to be flaunted. Rather, it is something to feel shame and disdain towards.