Wellesley, Massachusetts Public School Students Learn to Pray to Allah

reply to post by LAinhabitant


If it was a prayer ceremony then it would have been performed in Arabic and the kids would not have understood what was being said...

If it wasn't a prayer ceremony then the video is lying.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with you, is the parents job to expose their children to religious believes outside of the family ones, not the government and not the school system, I will have serious concern with a school that takes upon itself to expose children to Islam.

Many people doesn't understand that Islam is not a "religion" on itself but the laws that government the faith that is part of Islam.

You can not be an Islam follower and practice without following its laws, in the US we already have laws and a constitution and Islam will never recognized our laws and take them upon itself regardless what the American islamic followers said, that is not true Islam.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

In the UK every morning (in what was essentially a non-religious school) we were made to sit in assembly and sing christian songs and perform in prayer. It was also a multicultural school but the kids were expected to sit through it. I also participated from a very young age in religious studies, a class which was compulsory, throughout my secondary school.

Would you agree that compulsory participation in Faith based ceremonies and prayer in publically funded schools is wrong?

You say that you participated in your own faith, and correct me if I'm wrong but you had chosen that faith and it was because of that faith that you did not participate in others?

Yes, although my belief system was shaped by my parents, ultimately I made the decision to believe and participate. I should clarify that I have participated in Jewish Seder (Passover) ceremonies, but it was not in association w/any public school activities.

What I am saying is that these children should be allowed to choose their faith, or lack of, themselves.

I completely agree, however that isn't the function of public schools. Public schools are mandated to teach only secular knowledge and not religious dogma. I firmly believe that it is the right of every parent to shape the religious belief of their children.

I have already apologised for the soccer mom comment.

Duly noted, however the comment is rather telling.

However I stand by my belief that the video was a good representation of the ignorant bigotry widespread throughout the western world.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I am entitled to disagree.

As for my bias? the only thing I am biased against is the ignorance of others beliefs and teachings.. I have not studied theology in any way and at no point claim to be an expert, however it is clear (to me at least) that people are quick to judge others (usually incorrectly) based on their belief system and that with proper education a better understanding can be reached. Diversity is good.

I fail to understand how this video is a representation of bigotry towards Muslims. My perspective on it is this: A justifiable concern is being raised as to the appropriateness of a public school taking a field trip to a Mosque (under false pretense) and allowing the students to participate in prayer at said Mosque. I think it would be inappropriate regardless of the religious affiliation.

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Heh well, if I had a child in that school that would have been the last time they went to it. It is one thing to teach children ABOUT other cultures, but you don't expose your religious propaganda to them and get them to participate.

If you want your kid to be brainwashed by a cult so be it, but don't pretend it's learning...

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

Please research the Golden Age of Islam.

The Muslims laid the foundations for modern day science, maths and medicine based upon "knowledge of the ancients"

This is what brought it from the beliefs of a few to the masses.

They were the first to build medical schools, psychiatric hospitals, perform autopsies, draw comprehensive diagrams of the bodies nervous and circulatory systems etc etc...

all of this from the 8th century onwards.

Please cite references to back up these claims. Again, the research I've done does not support what you claim.

Originally posted by mumma in pyjamas
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

I probably see it differently because in Oz we have no distinct separation of church/state.
In fact we had half an hour a week of religion at school.
We had 7 different religions and one "no religion" room where the kids played board games.

I tried to "scripture hop" and try them all, but was not allowed to, the school decided that I would be a "disruptive influence" to my fellow students.I guess my reputation as a smarty pants was well established.

What? Well it appears you went to a private catholic school. You do realise that not all schools in Australia are that way? Out of all my extended family, I was the only one forced to go to a private catholic school, and yes we had religious studies as well as mass each friday.

If you went to a public school however, there was no religion at all.

Would you agree that compulsory participation in Faith based ceremonies and prayer in publically funded schools is wrong?

Compulsory - Yes, but these kids were not forced to take part, they were invited.

Yes, although my belief system was shaped by my parents, ultimately I made the decision to believe and participate. I should clarify that I have participated in Jewish Seder (Passover) ceremonies, but it was not in association w/any public school activities.

Exactly, if you had no faith yourself you may have been open to partaking in various religions ceremonies for the experience.

I am in no way religious, yet I have participated in Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist and Jewish ceremonies around the world, it's called cultural experience.

I completely agree, however that isn't the function of public schools. Public schools are mandated to teach only secular knowledge and not religious dogma. I firmly believe that it is the right of every parent to shape the religious belief of their children.

you have completely contradicted yourself with this statement. How are children supposed to make their mind up and choose religion unless they are educated by an impartial body. If a childs parents are religious do you think that they will teach them about any other religion other than their own? Children need to be taught about religions by an unbiased body and what better way to do that than via a secular public school?

I fail to understand how this video is a representation of bigotry towards Muslims. My perspective on it is this: A justifiable concern is being raised as to the appropriateness of a public school taking a field trip to a Mosque (under false pretense) and allowing the students to participate in prayer at said Mosque. I think it would be inappropriate regardless of the religious affiliation.

As I stated before, if this was a field trip to a Christian church and the children were asked to participate in prayer how many people do you think would complain let alone make a video out of it? I'm guessing at none.
My point is if there was less ignorance in the US as to the various religions then again this video would not have been made.

Fear of the unknown...

reply to post by badw0lf


Exactly my point, we should have been taught about all religions not had one forced upon us.

I have no problem what so ever with children being exposed to other cultures/religions, it will only help them have further understanding & respect for others as they grow up.

I do have two problems with this field trip. One, the participation in prayer.
Supreme Court's decision on Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, in 2000:

Writing for the majority, Justice John Paul Stevens said: "The delivery of such a message -- over the school's public address system by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer -- is not properly characterized as private speech."

Source

So I know that this decision was handed down because of school prayers at HS football games/graduations, but I think it still applies here. This was a school sponsored event with school chaperons. Plus these are children, the teachers/chaperons should have quietly objected. Part of the above decision was for students not to feel pressured into participating in prayer. I can see the scene play out now, Little Billy did not want to pray to Allah, so he is then labeled a "racist" by his fellow students.

My second issue with this, and this is the one that really fires me up, is the fact the students where separated and only the male students where asked to participate in the prayer. HUH??? Is it OK for a school sponsored event to give the impression that girls are not allowed/worthy to pray? For grown ups to choose this religion and choose to be separated, is find with me. That is their right to choose. But for a child to be forced into this type of separation, is plain awful. I will plainly say this, if this happened at a Christian Church or a Synagogue on a school trip, it would have been plastered all over the MSM: "Girls unworthy on school trip!!!".

The trip to the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center was a good idea, but only to learn about the religion/culture, not being pressured into participating in it.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Ibn al-Haytham - considered the pioneer of experimental physics and creator of the book of optics (also described as The First Scientist due to his introduction of the scientific method (expermiantation and quantification))

Ibn al-Haytham

Ishaq bin Ali al-Rahwi - Pioneer of the peer review in mordern medicine

Hospitals and Peer Reviews

Astronomy and Islam

Scroll down to the Middle Ages and Islam

Jabir Ibn Haiyan

The Father of Chemistry

Too Many to list so here's a general one:

Islamic Maths


Need i go on?

reply to post by OneisOne


No-one was pressured into it, the video clearly states at the beginning that several boys took part, not all.

As for the segregation, that is what happens regardless of age, if you take a trip to a mosque you have to respect their customs..

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Many in this boards know history and enjoyed, but what this has to do with Islam been pushed into the curriculum with field trips to mosques.

I will opposed trips to any type of Church regardless and that is the topic here.

While I can admire the architectural beauty of a Mosque, a Basilica or Cathedral that has nothing to do with prayer.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Truth_Hz

 

Many in this boards know history and enjoyed, but what this has to do with Islam been pushed into the curriculum with field trips to mosques.

I will opposed trips to any type of Church regardless and that is the topic here.

While I can admire the architectural beauty of a Mosque, a Basilica or Cathedral that has nothing to do with prayer.

They were there to learn about the religion not to have a look at the architecture!! The building's only a few years old!

It's called education not forced religion. If schools do not teach about religion that breeds the ignorance and religious fuelled hatred that is going to bring the world to it's knees as children will not know anything than what they have been force fed at home!

I was lucky in my early life to be taught religion, to debate religion and understand religion but as I have stated I subscribe to none of them.. you are supposed to be here to deny ignorance not promote it for future generations!

Thanks

Truth_Hz

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Is not the job of the school system or the government to teach religion this is America not and Islamic country.

Religion is a family affair and the job of parents to teach.

reply to post by marg6043


This is not just about Islam, it is about ALL religions, please look at the bigger picture. It is the responsibility of the government AND the schools to ensure that their pupils are educated.

Ignorance is bliss?

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

That subject has no place in public schools. College perhaps, but not public schools. And in the child's home as the parent sees fit.

What subject? Respecting others and their right to belive in and worship whatever they choose?

Sorry so short of a reply, Im going to be late so I guess I better get out of here.
Thanks for posting.
sl

Yes, that falls under religion, and I don't want any sort of it in my public tax funded school. Stopping at respecting others is just fine and covers everything without jumping into religion and worship, keep that out of public schools, please.

I think what I'm trying to say here is "tolerance" should be taught not just in the home but also at school. Tolerance for people who are considered "different".
Thanks
sl

Asking/suggesting a child to pray to a God not supported by their home religion is wrong and a complete lack of respect.

second line.

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Let see who is confuse here . . . Title of the thread, Wellesley, Massachusetts Public School Students Learn to Pray to Allah, now that we got that out of the way, I can go back and bring your post in this same thread about Islam, so yes we are talking about Islam.

And again, Religious teaching are not part of school curriculum, history is, now going to a mosque and pray is not about history is about teaching religion.

Now did Wellesley, Massachusetts public school have any field trip to visit a Buddha Temple?

Now should we get into supreme court rulings now? or later. . .

reply to post by Truth_Hz


We're in the 21st century now, not the 8th century.

This thread is not about who brought what to the world in the name of science, medicine (sterilization), mathematics (astronomy and the decimal point) because many more other racial groups have come forward and outdone you 1000 fold in inventions.

This is about the problems that exist among today's Muslims immigrating to the Western world and stirring up trouble.

Personally I think one of the vital issues among Muslims today is the large gap between their culture, Sharia Law and religion (many branches of different Islamic teachings) that have caused an identification crisis among the young.

reply to post by marg6043


Wow calm down love!!

If you read all of my posts they have been about Islam, it was you that stated that the government should not teach religion.

My reply was to your post that was a generalisation and taken in that context i was well within my rights to write what i did.

My whole premise for being on this thread was that if this was a different religion there would be no outcry because most of the western world has been "programmed" to discriminate against Islam and vice versa and it is only through education that this discrimination will end.

Now if you'd like to calm down and discuss feel free..