As Requested: Alex Kennedy's Masonic Origins Research Paper.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Good one, ?Mr. Necros?, or whatever you?re calling yourself this week. Still enjoying all your ?secret books??

Damnit ML, you're stealing my job.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
My dear bitter pill, you missed me...

Mirthful, I miss you even when you're here

many thirty-third degreer's.

Well, I can't be blamed for that one, as it's within a quote. I didn't want to change the spelling of the quote (it's from David Icke's Website).

power structure of Europe with one based on the Merovignian.

"Merovingian," "Merovignian," what does it matter? Well, I'll have to tell the editor to fix that one before it gets published.

due to its undocumentation.

"Undocumentation" is a perfectly cromulent word

Actually, it's not, and I'm sorry. Still two spelling errors in seven single-spaced pages isn't too bad, although still unacceptable. I will promply sever the top phalange of my left pinky finger, MM.

The major “mistake” was my presuming you were an honest inquirer instead of a troll. Good one, “Mr. Necros”, or whatever you’re calling yourself this week. Still enjoying all your “secret books”?

Whatever you mean by "troll" I don't know- we were having a good discussion until you came along -- you seem to enjoy hostility -- Ya I am still enjoying the info I have and out of respect for the order itself and fear I most likely will not make it public. If you read back to the beginning i clearly state "A lot of the information I have is public knowledge". As for the "whetever you're calling yourself this week junk" -- I have, in fact, just joined ATS and will be here in the weeks and months to come -- you will just have to wait and see ...


[edit on 23-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

Originally posted by Leveller
You just can't get the staff.

I propose MM beomes Alex's proofreader.
Any seconders?

Thanks L, I would much rather become MrNECROS' (or the appropriate permutation of identities) "ghost" writer than negotiate the obfuscated "Queens (French) English" of Canada (Sorry AK but any culture that feels a necessity of a 13 letter description of "ham"...errr... that would be "Canadian Bacon" to the less imaginative is preoccupied in a less than productive way). As to your "kontint"... flawless as always... I can only hope that the "uninitiated" (remember that IS what you are) appreciate the poignant juxtaposition of your fine "cleave and adhere" not to mention the rather profound cut and paste exposition herein implemented.

p.s. Troll off.

AK Really enjoyed the reading!
Wow, you offering good insights to the craft have sure turned an interesting course... ha ha ha

BTW: I am still in the HUNT... The masons will know what I am talking about. So, probably will not hear so much, but, I just love this board and will stop by. Once it is over and I am Enlightened, I will be back!

[edit on 24-6-2004 by JCMinJapan]

Alex haven't had time to read it yet, will get to it tonight. Didn't want you thinking I was being rude.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
but any culture that feels a necessity of a 13 letter description of "ham"...errr... that would be "Canadian Bacon"

That just shows your silliness, monekyshriner! (We'll have no more of your monkeyshrines!) Canadian Bacon (by the way, we don't call it "Canadian Bacon up here, for obvious reasons. The proper name is "back bacon," as in, "while you're at the store, could you pick me up a six, a dozen crullers, and a pound of back bacon, eh?"

You think you've got it great down there in the states, but you forget that up here we have the metric system. We all know that in order to get from the metric system to the imperial you double and add thirty. So, let's say you're drinking six Canadian beer... that would be the equivalent of (six and six is twelve, add thirty is 42) 42 American beer.

You'd better watch out insulting the Queen around loyalists like me... not to mention that I'm also an Anglican, so she is also the head of my church. How would you like it if I insulted your heroes, the members of the band "Survivor?" I suspect you'd be mighty miffed.

"Cleave" means the same thing as "adhere," silly man!

I've always had this romanticized (even if inaccurate) version of the history of the freemasons as being a group of individuals who were out to rid the world of the ignorance that is Christianity and instead replace superstition with reason. What a noble cause that would be. If that was their goal I would join them in a second.

I know it might not be accurate but I used to for some reason link the Masons with the Enlightenment. Down with superstition (Christianity) and up with reason. We need more groups like that.

Originally posted by miltie
I know it might not be accurate but I used to for some reason link the Masons with the Enlightenment. Down with superstition (Christianity) and up with reason. We need more groups like that.

Well, you're close, but no cigar. Freemasonry does share ideals with the Enlightenment, but neither the Enlightenment nor Freemasonry are against Christianity. Freemasonry is definitely for freedom of thought in religious matters, and that mean that you have the freedom to be a Christian (like me!).

The Enlightenment was philosophical movement of the 18th century that emphasized the use of reason to scrutinize previously accepted doctrines and traditions and that brought about many humanitarian reforms.

I can't seem to reconcile that with Christianity or any religion for that matter. But that is just me.

Originally posted by miltie
But that is just me.

That's exactly my point. Just because you don't like Christianity (and, by the way, you're perfectly within your rights not to), doesn't mean anything other than that you don't like Christianity. No single one of us (fortunately) gets to decide which religious beliefs are "OK" and which are "superstition."

"No single one of us (fortunately) gets to decide which religious beliefs are "OK" and which are "superstition.""

Actually we all get to decide what is superstition. I could decide that Christianity is superstition. Like you said it's my right. But it seems as if we are arguing about semantics. So no point in doing that.

You mentioned earlier in your posts a book on the Templars that debunked the templar connection with freemasonry. Is it still in print?

I was also curious as to whether you've read another book on the Templars called The Templars: Knights of God
by Edward Burman. HAve you ever heard of it? Have you read it? I want a good introduction to the Templars with no theory just fact. I want something that just explains what we know about them and that's it. After I get that information will i expand on the theory dealing with their connections (if any) with masonry.

Originally posted by miltie
Actually we all get to decide what is superstition. I could decide that Christianity is superstition. Like you said it's my right. But it seems as if we are arguing about semantics. So no point in doing that.

I think that what Alex meant is that no single person can decide a religion is superstition for others. You may hold your own personal belief but it doesn't mean that others aren't also right by having theirs.

If you want a good, historical book on the Templars, try "The Templars" by Piers Paul Reid. I've mentioned it before and I really founds it to be a good source.
As for Alex's paper? Apart from the numerous spelling mistakes and the obsession with bacon, I can't see much that I would actually criticise. But I can't see much that I would promote either.

That's the problem with those pesky Templars - they were just so mysterious. I'd love to believe that Freemasonry sprang from Templarism, but I just can't see it myself. Everything tells me that they were a strongly Orthodox group and that leads me away from this theory. But in Alex's defence - either way, there is no absolute proof.

Originally posted by Leveller
That's the problem with those pesky Templars - they were just so mysterious. I'd love to believe that Freemasonry sprang from Templarism, but I just can't see it myself. Everything tells me that they were a strongly Orthodox group and that leads me away from this theory. But in Alex's defence - either way, there is no absolute proof.

But... wait... my paper says that Freemasonry didn't come from the Templars. I don't quite understand what you're agreeing with me about.

What about James Wasserman's book the Templars and the Assassins?

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
But... wait... my paper says that Freemasonry didn't come from the Templars. I don't quite understand what you're agreeing with me about.

My bad. I need to read it through again. I guess the long words and the spelling mistakes screwed up my interpretation.

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
You'd better watch out insulting the Queen around loyalists like me... not to mention that I'm also an Anglican, so she is also the head of my church. How would you like it if I insulted your heroes, the members of the band "Survivor?" I suspect you'd be mighty miffed.

I'm putting on my parachute pants and combing my mullet... you're going to get it AK, Survivor rocks! How dare you! Next thing you know, Canadians will be harboring deserters from our military... I'm going to have an Egg McMuffin now.

Hey, I think the day has come when "Survivor" fans and "Flock of Seagulls" fans can finally get together and live in harmony.

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Hey, I think the day has come when "Survivor" fans and "Flock of Seagulls" fans can finally get together and live in harmony.

"Harmony" is not a word I would use in relation to either of those two bands.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by Leveller]

Oh, come on, Leveller, I know this has happened to you:

A cloud appears above your head;
A beam of light comes shining down on you,
Shining down on you.
The cloud is moving nearer still.
Aurora borealis comes in view;
Aurora comes in view.

And [you] ran, [you] ran so far away.
[you] just ran, [you] ran all night and day.
[you] couldn't get away.

P.S. By the way, what the heck are tawny eyes? You're British, Leveller, help me out.

[edit on 25-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]