9/11 from a different perspective.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
You gotta be kidding me, Nef. Have you ever been in the military? I don't know how the military is in the U.K., but here in the states, soldiers don't go through boot camp and then sit on their asphalts for the rest of their military careers. They train hard, every single day for any and every scenario imaginable, at all levels of the military and government.

Just because our military didn't have as many fighters ready as we used to, doesn't mean for a second that they weren't ready and prepared at all times for any scenario.

There you go. Are you really sure there, or is that just some hopeful denial speaking?

I know - not one single person would want to think it was the case. No one. But just because you don't want to think it, doesn't mean it couldn't be true, does it?

Most people don't want to think the US Government was complicit with the attacks that day, and yet you think it was a controlled demolition. Why does your theory have more weight?

If anyone was incompetent, heads would have rolled. But they didn't. Instead, heads were promoted. Most every single head that had power on 9/11 was promoted. How ironic is that?

"You guys did such a good job on 9/11 that you're all promoted!" What a friggin crock.

Interesting theory, Nef. But that's not anywhere near where the evidence leads.

If there was endemic failure in the system - and the US government admitted it - what effect do you think that would have had on the USA? On the foundations of the entire country? Do you think the administration in power would have survived it? Do you think the USA would have survived it? When millions and millions of people woke up to find out that the system they believe in failed them simply because - when it came to crunch time - it all broke down. When the worlds only superpower turns round and says "we couldn't protect you" after years of making itself out to be virtually untouchable?

Better to paper over the cracks and hope no one looks too carefully, or really thinks about it too hard.

No blame culture, plausible deniability. Nothing to see here. Please move along. Don't look at the man behind the curtain.

Its a theory. Think about it.

reply to post by neformore

Just because I'm a 9/11 forum mod doesn't mean I have to jump through the hoops of the truth movement.

If your posting then you aint in Mod mode
But every poster, right or wrong, deserves respect..

Originally posted by neformore
Most people don't want to think the US Government was complicit with the attacks that day, and yet you think it was a controlled demolition. Why does your theory have more weight?

Are you really a 9/11 forum moderator? What have you done with neformore? Have you actually read any of the hundreds of threads that address this subject? Have you watched any of the videos where you can see the detonation flashes (squibs) going off as the buildings collapse? How about the firefighters, police, rescue workers, reporters and passers-by who heard numerous secondary explosions at the base of the towers? The WTC employees who testified that there were explosions in the sub-levels BEFORE any plane impacted? The scientists and researchers who found thermite explosives in the WTC dust? The physicists who claim the towers' collapse at free-fall speeds violates basic laws of physics (conservation of energy and momentum) and who maintain the oxygen-starved fires weren't nearly hot enough to melt or compromise it's steel structure? How about the fact that no other steel-framed skyscraper in history has collapsed due to fire, even those that burned for days at much hotter temperatures? Or the original WTC architects and engineers who specifically constructed the towers to withstand multiple impacts from a 707, a plane similar in size and weight to a 767?

Originally posted by neformore
I prefer to think independently, thank you very much. You ought to try it some time.

All I can say is, wow. I guess Hitler was right: "The greater the lie, the greater the chance that it will be believed."

Originally posted by neformore
Its a theory. Think about it.

And as I stated, an interesting theory. However, it ignores all of the evidence. In fact, it didn't even touch the evidence.

You and other debunkers/skeptics are all beating your chest around a bush. And every one of you is making up every possible thing you can think of to explain what may have happened. But at the same time, every single one of you is ignoring and/or dismissing some of the most prominent and damning evidence instead of looking inside the bush, accepting the evidence, and realizing what the evidence means.

So yes, you have a theory. But it doesn't work in the real world when it ignores the evidence.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Are you really a 9/11 forum moderator? What have you done with neformore? Have you actually read any of the hundreds of threads that address this subject?

Yep. I see people following like sheep along a predetermined path because someone else thinks so. It seems to be fashionable.

Originally posted by neformore
All I can say is, wow. I guess Hitler was right: "The greater the lie, the greater the chance that it will be believed."

He was an astute guy in his more lucid moments.

Imagine if "9/11 Truth" was invented by TPTB in order to create a massive distraction from incompetance at the highest level. Get all the smart people asking questions and running round in circles in order to distract away from the real problem.

Are you playing, or are you being played?



One thing you should note though GoldenFleece - this is a theory. What you believe is a theory also. The only facts here are that buildings fell and people died. Everything else is pure speculation. You can dress it up however you want, but speculation is all it is.

reply to post by neformore


I would agree with the third case scenario! I think you hit the nail on the head this time! If it where to happen again we would still be in a mess today! Our government is to big to react in a prompt manner and that leads to total failure of the systems in place,we have way to many ranks to go through to be fast at reacting.

reply to post by _BoneZ_

You and other debunkers/skeptics are all beating your chest around a bush. And every one of you is making up every possible thing you can think of to explain what may have happened.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Isn't that what you are doing? Fitting a crime to an event.

Again, you have a theory. Nothing more than that.

You call me a debunker/skeptic - like that bothers me - but at least I have the power of my own convictions to admit that I don't know exactly what happened on 9/11 because NOBODY does. I'm offering a theory - the same as you are.

You, however, appear to be so entrenched in what you believe so deeply that you don't even want to contemplate anything else.

Sorry Bonez - you know I respect you - but simply put you can't find truth that way.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Have you watched any of the videos where you can see the detonation flashes (squibs) going off as the buildings collapse?

This shows you know nothing about building demolition, there were no "squibs" going off during the collapse, as in a demolition explosives go off BEFORE the building falls, also a squib is a "a miniature explosive device" and they are not used in demolition.

heard numerous secondary explosions at the base of the towers?

As the towers did not collapse from the base, they did not hear explosives

The WTC employees who testified that there were explosions in the sub-levels BEFORE any plane impacted?

wrong, they heard the plane impact

The scientists and researchers who found thermite explosives in the WTC dust?

another truther lie, thermite was NOT found

The physicists who claim the towers' collapse at free-fall speeds violates basic laws of physics

now you are getting even sillier - apart from the fact that WTC 1 & 2 did not fall at free fall speeds, as can easily be seen by just watching a video of their collapse, the debris falling off the towers are falling at free fall speed, the towers are much slower

who maintain the oxygen-starved fires weren't nearly hot enough to melt

yet another truther lie, only truthers claim steel was melted, which is a lie.

How about the fact that no other steel-framed skyscraper in history has collapsed due to fire

how many of those were hit by a heavily laden airline at speed? None, so it is not strange no others collapsed!

Or the original WTC architects and engineers who specifically constructed the towers to withstand multiple impacts from a 707,

yet another truther lie, where did the original architects claim they could survive multiple impacts?

Why do truthers lie so much - because they have no facts!

Originally posted by neformore
You call me a debunker/skeptic - like that bothers me

I wasn't calling you one directly, nor did I say that to bother you, and I wouldn't.

Originally posted by neformore
You, however, appear to be so entrenched in what you believe so deeply that you don't even want to contemplate anything else.

You're correct. I've researched 9/11 for many years. And in that research, evidence is piled up and most of the time stays in that pile. When another theory pops up that ignores the evidence, or the available evidence doesn't support the theory, then there's nothing to contemplate. The theory doesn't need contemplating when the evidence in the other hand does not fit.

Originally posted by neformore
Imagine if "9/11 Truth" was invented by TPTB in order to create a massive distraction from incompetance at the highest level. Get all the smart people asking questions and running round in circles in order to distract away from the real problem.

Now there's a theory! Maybe TPTB really are behind all this "inside job" speculation. That way, while Americans slowly become convinced that their own government is a bunch of mass-murdering psychopaths who are bankrupting the country with endless, genocidal wars, they could effectively hide the fact that they're... incompetent. Very clever.

Originally posted by neformore
One thing you should note though GoldenFleece - this is a theory. What you believe is a theory also. The only facts here are that buildings fell and people died. Everything else is pure speculation.

As you believe, so it will be, neformore.

BTW, is your screen name inspired by 'The Raven?'

Originally posted by dereks
in a demolition explosives go off BEFORE the building falls

Sometimes they go off before. Sometimes they continue to go off as the building is collapsing. And before you say "no they don't", I've got videos to prove otherwise.

But there were numerous explosions that went off before either tower collapsed. For instance, there were about 9 large explosions just before the south tower collapsed:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b03b63d8cee2.jpg[/atsimg]

First responders have also testified to that same number of explosions before the south tower collapsed. Explosions that are heard miles away.

Originally posted by dereks
As the towers did not collapse from the base, they did not hear explosives

They did not collapse from the base, but numerous explosions happened in the basement levels that destroyed the parking garage; made a 10-ton hydraulic brake press "disappear"; destroyed the machine shop; caused a steel and concrete fire door to be blown off it's hinges and crumpled up on the floor "like tin foil"; caused people to either get killed or severely hurt from the explosions in the basement levels.

You would know all of this from real research.

Originally posted by dereks
wrong, they heard the plane impact

How are you just going to blatantly call witnesses and survivors liars? Have you ever lived in a tall apartment building? You can hear which noises come from up above and which noises come from below. Witnesses heard explosions in the basement levels which caused the damage I just explained above.

Originally posted by dereks
another truther lie, thermite was NOT found

Sorry, it was a nano-thermitic material. And the lab results were only preliminary. However, you must have done your own testing for you to just blatantly again call someone a liar. So where's your lab results showing that there was no nano-thermitic material in the WTC dust? Forgive us for not taking your words and name-calling as fact.

Originally posted by dereks
yet another truther lie, only truthers claim steel was melted, which is a lie.

So now you're calling firefighters truthers and liars? There are no words that I can use right now within the T&C to express my disgust for your blatant dishonesty.

Only truthers claim steel was melted?





Where the hell do you think truthers got that idea from? Now sit there and call our hero firefighters liars so I can put you on permanent ignore. Unbelievable. YOU have just been caught in a lie.

I have always wondered if anyone got in trouble for what happened that day.
I know that if you are on guard duty and something comes up missing or something happened because you were not paying attention or went to sleep, you would pay dearly including brig (jail) time, demotion, discharged and if in war, you would be killed. Why was it different this time?
No matter if the OS or a conspiracy theory was the truth, there should have been investigations and punishments.

A soldier goes on a killing rampage in a military base and they do an investigation of who knew that he was depressed, who did he talked to about ideas, who had issues with him, etc.They investigate and question the people that were in charge of this person and find if they saw any warning signs, if they did and did nothing about it, they will be punished.

I don't find it normal nor logical that no one was punished if the OS story was true.
Also, like a poster in this thread mentioned, I have seen a few documentaries were the government (Condi, Giuliani, Bush, etc.) have said and keep saying that they had no idea that airplanes could be used as weapons, Why are they lying? They have never heard of kamikaze pilots or September 12 1970?
Why are the OS believers not wanting justice when they are being lied to or at least wanting a new investigation on the failures and the blatant lies that we are being told?

Why can't we see the videos of the plane crashing in to the Pentagon and why did they confiscate all of the videos and they have to be sued in order for the owners to get the tapes back?
Why was there only a couple of frames of the plane crashing video released when there were so many cameras recording the Pentagon? Even if you are an OS believer, you should want to know the answers to these questions. Think about it.

Originally posted by Elieser
No matter if the OS or a conspiracy theory was the truth, there should have been investigations and punishments.

In actuality, there were promotions.

When the U.S. was attacked at Pearl Harbor, after eight inquiries, General Walter Short, Commander of the Army for the defense of Hawaii, and Admiral Husband Kimmel, Commander of the Pacific Fleet, were both charged with negligence and dismissed. After 9/11, neither the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, nor the head of Civil Aviation, nor the head of Air Defense was punished or removed from office.

On September 10, 2001, U.S. Army Brigadier General W. Montague Winfield asked junior officer Captain Charles Leidig to temporarily replace him as Director of Operations at the Pentagon's National Military Command Center (NMCC) from 8:30am on 9/11. After the last plane had crashed, Winfield resumed control. After 9/11, Winfield was promoted to Major General.

Captain Charles Leidig had only just completed a course qualifying him to run the command center. After 9/11, he was promoted to Rear Admiral, Director of Operations of the Sixth Fleet Naval Forces in Europe.

On 9/11/01, Brigadier General David F. Wherley Jr. was Commander of Andrews Air Force Base (the nearest base to the Pentagon). After 9/11, he was promoted to Major General, Commanding General of the National Guard, District of Columbia.

On 9/11/01, Richard B. Myers, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was the temporary head of all U.S. armed forces in the absence of Chairman Shelton who was out of the country. On October 1, 2001, Myers was promoted to Chairman.

reply to post by neformore

I'm not knocking the general US armed services here, because I know they are made up of men and women who do their level best for their country - but heres the scary part - what if the people who are paid to make the really really tough decisions froze, and simply had no clue what to do, because - in all honesty - they never thought it would happen, and never prepared themselves for the day it did?

I disagree with your theory. I believe BoneZ, and GoldenFleece are correct, your theory completely ignores credible eyewitness accounts and it ignores real science that proves that our government wasn’t just caught off guard, but played a role in 911. The cover-ups, the lies, the destroying of evidence, tampering with a federal crime scene, hiding behind National Security secretes (laws,) a refusal to not answer questions, 911 commissioners admitted they lied in their 911 Commission Report, NIST science was proven false, the list just goes on and on, all leads into covering up a false flag operation.
Yet, you want to call all this evidence below a theory? These are not theories this is evidence.
OBL was not the mastermind behind 911, circumstantial evidence points to parts of the Bush administration.

Ryland: A Sibel Edmonds 'Bombshell' - Bin Laden Worked for U.S. Until 9/11
Edmonds expert fills in details from recent BRAD BLOG interview with noted, gagged FBI translator/whistleblower...

www.bradblog.com...

Whistleblower: Bin Laden was US proxy until 9/11

rawstory.com...

Summary of Evidence A Call to Action
1. Rapid onset of destruction with unnatural symmetry of debris
2. Constant acceleration at or near free-fall through the path of what should have been greatest resistance
3. 118 witnesses to explosions and flashes of light, and foreknowledge of WTC 7’s collapse
4. Lateral ejection of multi-ton steel sections 600 feet at more than 60 mph
5. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete, and massive volumes of expanding pyroclastic-like dust clouds
6. Isolated explosive ejections 20 to 60 stories below “crush zone”
7. Total destruction of all three buildings, with 220 missing floors from the Twin Towers – each an acre in size
8. Several tons of molten steel/iron
9. Evidence of thermite incendiaries on steel beams
10. Nanothermite composites found in WTC dust
11. Destruction of Evidence by those in charge of the investigation

www.ae911truth.org...

Twin Towers Evidence Blows Away Fire Theory
Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.
--Karin Deshore, in a Nov. 7, 2001, New York Times interview

www.ae911truth.org...

Exotic High Tech Explosives Positively Identified in World Trade Center Dust
A ground-breaking scientific paper confirmed this week that red-gray flakes found throughout multiple samples of WTC dust are actually unexploded fragments of nanothermite, an exotic high-tech explosive.
The samples were taken from far-separated locations in Manhattan, some as early as 10 minutes after the second tower (WTC 1) collapsed, ruling out any possible contamination from cleanup operations.
Authored by an international team of physicists, chemists, and others, the research paper was titled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe." It was published in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 2009, Vol. 2., and is available online for free download. The lead author is Niels H. Harrit of the Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen.

www.ae911truth.org...

United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

www.opednews.com...

Physical Damage To Pentagon Impossible Based on Witness Statements/Observations

pilotsfor911truth.org...

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Lies, Conflicting Reports, Cover-Up's

pilotsfor911truth.org...

The Lack of Foundation Damage at the Pentagon is Irreconcilable with the Official Reports

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Can the Govt Get Their Story Straight? - Location Of Flight Data Recorder

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Impossible to Prove a Falsehood True
by George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (ret.)

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
How about the fact that no other steel-framed skyscraper in history has collapsed due to fire, even those that burned for days at much hotter temperatures?

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.

Steel Frame Construction Failure

Fires are another cause of failures in steel-framed structures. If the steel framing is not protected by fire-resistant materials, heat from the fire will raise the temperature of the steel above its yield point. Once the steel yields, it will no longer be able to carry the loads it was designed for, and deformation or collapse of the structure will occur. Fire-damaged members are not normally repairable and usually need to be replaced when the structure is repaired.

Well if anyone would care to look for the past four days i have been putting all my reasearch into solving the crime of the conspirators...i have a lot more that is coming...and then if your like me you will start to see it is alot more than complacent goverment officials involved ...it is direct involvment and a mass cover up...and the lousy 400+ million that Larry Silverstein got paid out is peanuts compared to the 2.3 TRILLION that has gone missing.

Not only that it is a false flag operation that has killed over a Million people by going to war with countries that are not the perpetrators. People will see this is a global crime with one thing being the objective,Global dominance,at the expense of Nations around the world.

NOW i will be needing ATS members helps soon to assist me with all the peices.
I am presenting over 100 suspects...and providing info on each and everyone of them...and i know this can be solved...this is the biggest crime to mankind.

I am working very hard as I want the TRUTH.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by neformore


What are you on??

Your link shows pics of the main metat structure still standing!!

www.mace.manchester.ac.uk...

How does that equate to the WTC ??

Do they teach you nothing in MOd school??

Like showing comparative proof??

Originally posted by plube
compared to the 2.3 TRILLION that has gone missing

Oh dear, that truther lie again - if you read the complete statement you would know that 2.3 trillion was not missing, but like all truthers you get your false information from those damn fool conspiracy sites, which are full of lies like this one!

I am working very hard as I want the TRUTH.

If you want the truth why spread lies here?

reply to post by dereks


Mate, here it is on video from the US Goverment..

www.youtube.com...

Argue that!!!!!

Originally posted by CynicalM
Mate, here it is on video from the US Goverment..

A heavily edited video... why didnt they show the full statement?

Here it is:

"The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible."

So the money is NOT missing like the truthers claim! "In fiscal 1999, a defense audit found that about $2.3 trillion of balances, transactions and adjustments were inadequately documented. These "unsupported" transactions do not mean the department ultimately cannot account for them, she advised, but that tracking down needed documents would take a long time. Auditors, she said, might have to go to different computer systems, to different locations or access different databases to get information."

More info here
www.911myths.com...