Creationists, I can easily prove you wrong (even though you don't even have a theory)

reply to post by agentofchaos


You're contributing nothing to this thread...

And did I ever say that I had some unique individual insight?

Why is it that posts that dispute creationism automatically attract trolls and such flaming?

reply to post by xiphias

Anyone else notice Stephen Hawking seems to be #ting bricks lately?

Too much!!

But seriously, I have noticed he can't help but run off at the mouth about God, aliens and space at every opportunity now. What's up with that, huh?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Ive added you as a friend hope you dont mind, i was quite happy to let the creationist/young earthers live with whatever they wanted to belive untill the whole 'rain is people in heaven crying' incident, kudos to you for starting a thread i was going to start myself, and i hope i can bring something along to help you combat this tide of ignorence that is sweeping not only the u.k but most other places as well.

Since there's a lot of faith, belief, truth, evidence, methods, and other unrelated terms on this thread, we should first agree on one same point:

Faith does not change truth / reality.
It doesn't matter at all if I believe in something (with proof or without it). This belief won't change a bit of the truth of it's existence or not.

With that said, it does not really matter if you're (easily) trying to prove creationists wrong, it won't affect the reality of their theory (if they have one).
There's a deep illusion on your greek way of thinking that "I influence my world, I make my own reality of things I believe in". Your beliefs on these called evolution theories don't change the reality of things. This same greek way of thinking tends to simplify everything, find one universal element, summarize everything; while the creationist idea or bible's reality is complex, no minimalist. (Johnze's example: IQ 200+, his idea is summarized -> mathematics). On this greek mindset, every complex thought has to be simplified. Creationist's mindset is rather a complex theory for you I see.

I explicitly stated that a belief in the divine and a belief in evolution are compatible.

If you and other evolutionists on this thread are trying to prove coexistence between creation and evolution, you go against your own statement:

I haven't misrepresented the creationist view. Please demonstrate where I have. And I definitely do not understand my own view poorly. Again, please demonstrate where I have.

I will demonstrate:

If you knew all aspects of evolutionism and creationism, you'd know these two cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
Even though you're trying to stay on the "origin of species" not origin of life, the creationist idea is actually both.
THEN:
The existence of a deity would prove the evolution theory wrong. The evolution theory would prove the existence of a deity wrong.

Although this so called god (or gods) seems to remain silent while we debate, you won't easily prove creationists wrong before we run out of server space with hundreds of pages on this thread.

Over billions of years, I could imagine that there have been all kinds of intelligent designers running around the multiverse, and not only God. I thing there has been both design and evolution, and even intelligent, directed evolution, along colonization, terraforming and seeding of worlds. A lot can happen over billions of years and billions of planets.

I don't know if this particular link is true, about Dr. Dan Crain (or Burisch), Project Aquarius, Lotus and Star Flower, but it's the type of thing one hears about from time to time. It could well be fully true, partially true, or not true at all. I have no way of knowing.

www.astrosciences.info...

So what is it we're wrong about again? Can you write out it for me? Creationists are wrong about.?

All you mention is the oldest most ignorant arguement of " well then where did it's Daddy come from Daddy"?
Every single person on the planet knows the answer to that. thank God only the beginners think it's legite.
almost makes me vomit.
I think I'll cut this one short I'm sure you can see how impotent your thread is.

Originally posted by randyvs

So what is it we're wrong about again? Can you write out it for me? Creationists are wrong about.?

all life was created in 7 days by a higher intelligence, the earth is not 14 billion years old it is only 6000 years old, THAT is what you are wrong about,

simple enough for you?

reply to post by Neilc1972

all life was created in 7 days by a higher intelligence, the earth is not 14 billion years old it is only 6000 years old, THAT is what you are wrong about,

I don't want to be too picky but the Earth is actually 4.5 Billion years old. The error you've made there is actually more massive than the Creationist error of believing its 6,000 however I'm assuming its an honest mistake. Could have happened to anybody I suppose.

reply to post by randyvs


Creationists are wrong about:

The Age of the Earth - The Earth is more than four billion years old, science has proved this time and time again. Some Creationists believe it is only between 6-10,000 years despite the fact the human species dates back at least 200,000 years. Young Earth Creationism also creates problems with cosmology since we can see galaxies that are easily more than 6,000 light years away.

The Age of the Universe - About 13.7 Billion years ago the Big Bang began and rapid inflation quickly increased the size of the Universe from a minute singularity. 13.7 Billion years later the background radiation that proves the Big Bang is still around. If God was involved we don't know but one thing is for sure, the Universe is more than 6,000 years old.

The mechanism that allowed bio-diversity - Evolution is one of the strongest theories in science and has remained such since its inception. It is constantly updated with new evidence and is bolstered by strong genetic evidence, fossil evidence including dozens of transitional forms, behavioral studies, morphology, etc. Creationism, essentially little more than God using divine powers to conjure things, has no evidence supporting it and all the evidence of Evolution stacked against it.

The question the OP asks is perfectly legitimate. If God did create the Universe and life where did God from. Saying he always existed is a cop-out ESPECIALLY when there is no proof he exists to begin with. It is exactly the same question that theists ask of scientists, if the Big Bang created the Universe what created the Big Bang, what came before... We don't know but at least we're willing to admit we don't know rather than searching for supernatural explanations or infinity.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


1. The creator is self internal (for me its god) So God was never created he just is and was he self internal (most people can't understand this) never changing never dieing (like every other idea put forth about where everything came from)

2. It is untestable is not really true but it is not provable (that damn free will thing) but what is provable?

3. I never attack any science i love science. .....Oh and the idea is where did the first cell "evolve" from?

4. um......you said "Australians and North Americans are descended from Europeans" but um it is the same species so im kinda lost on your point. And i never use Straw Man arguments that i know of.

I must ask at what point did you "prove" anyone wrong?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


The earth is old the bible never said it was only 6-10k the man that tried to go back to Adam missed a few points.
Adam was immortal until he ate of the fruit but why mention this? Because he could of been alive for billions of years (that would enplane...NVM for another thread)

He would not count his age because he knew no age he was immortal he did not count age until he could die. So i would say he "sinned" about 6-10k.

And how is it a cop-out? A cop-out is to say evolution then say um we don't know but hey evolution. The "always existed" is simple yet imposable to comprehend yet it is a must. What i mean is in the end everything came from something and it MUST be self eternal because if it is not then it must of been created.

But as with every post here this is only MHO.

reply to post by GunzCoty

Adam was immortal until he ate of the fruit but why mention this?

So you attempt to claim that Young Earth Creationism doesn't fit with Biblical Literalism and your best attempt to do this is by stating something the Bible also DOES NOT say. Genesis says nothing about Adam being immortal before eating the fruit and in fact there has to be death before the Fall because in order to eat anything at all it must be digested and become dead cells.

What i mean is in the end everything came from something and it MUST be self eternal because if it is not then it must of been created.

How about this - There has always been something, the Universe has always been something but the matter and energy that makes it up is constantly reordering itself. This would fit well with the hypothesis of the Big Bang - Big Crunch repetition, the Universe is reborn over and over again and then collapses back down. It would also allow for the possibility of eternal gods I think its a win win, atheists like me can still claim the Universe doesn't require a God and theists get to go around saying their MIGHT be one anyway

reply to post by Neilc1972

simple enough for you?

Op hasn't proven anything. Nothing.Except that he can ask the most redundant question involved in this great debate. What does it prove to ask that question? A question that sounds like it should only come from some little kid. No shame to your game or what? I can tell you this much about all your silly lil questions. They will all be answered someday.
But it won't be in this lifetime. EPIC FAIL

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Neilc1972

 

all life was created in 7 days by a higher intelligence, the earth is not 14 billion years old it is only 6000 years old, THAT is what you are wrong about,

I don't want to be too picky but the Earth is actually 4.5 Billion years old. The error you've made there is actually more massive than the Creationist error of believing its 6,000 however I'm assuming its an honest mistake. Could have happened to anybody I suppose.

reply to post by randyvs

 

apologies for that honest mistake it was getting very late when i posted my reply, your right of course the earth is 4.5 billion years old and not 14 billion

edit on 14-9-2010 by Neilc1972 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by randyvs


o randy.... there will be answers, and the sandcastles you have built for yourself on the universal shores will melt through your hands.

Know that i loved you as much as any god you were deluded enough to believe in... and i will not blame you for desiring death, a way out of a world you no longer recognize.

More and more flames. Why can't people just answer a question without insults?

Originally posted by randyvs

So what is it we're wrong about again? Can you write out it for me? Creationists are wrong about.?

You deny the scientific evidence that backs evolutionary theory in order to accept that all living creatures were created in their present state at the beginning of life.
That's most specifically what's wrong.

All you mention is the oldest most ignorant arguement of " well then where did it's Daddy come from Daddy"?
Every single person on the planet knows the answer to that. thank God only the beginners think it's legite.
almost makes me vomit.

Thank you for the gross over simplification of my post
The infinite regress problem does have an issue. You cannot call life 'irreducibly complex' and then solve the problem of things being too complex to occur naturally with something far more complex than the initial organism because you're just begging the question of what caused the being to arise.

Since 'every single person on the planet' knows how to solve the problem of infinite regress, could you please give me the solution to it?

I think I'll cut this one short I'm sure you can see how impotent your thread is.

edit on 13-9-2010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Even more insults.
I'm surprised the mods aren't doing anything about this.

reply to post by slinger


Yay, more useless comments!

reply to post by randyvs


More name calling and the like it seems. Can you please show me how I haven't proven anything? Right now you're not really showing me how, you're just saying I haven't done anything. Please address the arguments instead of saying things like "Everyone knows the answer to that"

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


It most certainly is. No matter how you try to window dress it MIMS, it is about the existence of God, or the non existence of God.

Who, if not God, would be behind Creationism, pray?

So far as the Mod thing? Ain't bein' a mod right now, strictly another member.

reply to post by seagull


If creationism being false implies that god doesn't exist then Van Gogh doesn't exist because he didn't paint the painting on my wall.

Creationism being false doesn't imply that a deity doesn't exist, it merely implies that the deity is not responsible for the descent of species from the first life form. I'm not even addressing the issue of whether or not a deity created the Earth or the first life form, because that is not the issue here and those are subjects for a different thread. For all you care the universe could have been created by a deity and then that deity eventually decided to spark life on Earth and then that life evolved. As long as we're talking about the biology of the matter, I'm fine.


I openly stated and then quoted myself stating that evolution can coexist with a theistic world view. You can have your heaven and hell and eternal forgiveness and the like from your deity while allowing the universe to have naturalistic explanations.

So, once more, THIS THREAD IS NEUTRAL AS TO THE EXISTENCE OF GOD, IT IS PURELY ABOUT THE PRACTICE OF BIOLOGY REFERRED TO AS EVOLUTIONARY SCIENCE

This thread is also not about: the origin of the universe
the origin of the galaxy
the origin of the solar system
the origin of our planet
or the origin of life

This is a thread about the origin of species. About evolution.

Originally posted by Neilc1972

Originally posted by randyvs

So what is it we're wrong about again? Can you write out it for me? Creationists are wrong about.?

all life was created in 7 days by a higher intelligence, the earth is not 14 billion years old it is only 6000 years old, THAT is what you are wrong about,

simple enough for you?

God created it in seven days. God in hinduism, is known as brahma. One day of Brahma is 4.32 billion years.
When you start to dig a bit deeper, what at first sounds ludicrous starts to make sense.