Wally Miller on UA93: wingtip hit, 757 cartwheeled, cockpit broke off, rest buried

Originally posted by Six Sigma

It depends on where they got their information. Do you know?

You might think Wally got that story from a little old lady, but people who think logically and have common sense can see he got if from those in charge of the investigation; the FBI.

If you disagree, you can call Wally and ask his to confirm. You got his number, right?

reply to post by ATH911

You might think Wally got that story from a little old lady, but people who think logically and have common sense can see he got if from those in charge of the investigation; the FBI.

If you disagree, you can call Wally and ask his to confirm. You got his number, right?

So, basically you're guessing about who gave him that description, right? Thats fine, your guess is as good as anyone else's right? Or are you special and your guess carry more weight?

reply to post by hooper


Well then based on your logic and common sense, where do you think Miller got that story from when he said "The explanation was..."?

Originally posted by ATH911

You might think Wally got that story from a little old lady, but people who think logically and have common sense can see he got if from those in charge of the investigation; the FBI.

If you disagree, you can call Wally and ask his to confirm. You got his number, right?

Why do I have to confirm something that YOU are assuming? YOU post it, YOU provide the proof. Other than that, it's just hearsay and speculation.

I don't have to contact Wally, I have contacted all that I needed to. Most of my questions were answered when I reached out to the professionals... back in 2006. When will YOU be contacting the professionals that were there?

reply to post by Six Sigma

So which part of the story Miller said in that interview do you disagree with? Wingtip hitting first? Sending plane in cartwheel motion? Cockpit breaking off and landing above ground? Rest of plane burying? All of it?

Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by hooper

 

Well then based on your logic and common sense, where do you think Miller got that story from when he said "The explanation was..."?

Sorry, real logic dictates that there is no way to logically deduce the source of the information. The range of possibilites inlcude anyone he had spoken to between September 11, 2001 and the date of the interview. Now, within all those possibilities we may examine individual events (persons he has spoken to) and assign probabilities. So, do you have a complete list of all persons that he communicated with between the morning of September 11, 2001 and the date of the interview?

Or do you just intend to ignore logic and say FBI?

Originally posted by hooper
Sorry, real logic dictates that there is no way to logically deduce the source of the information.

Let me help you out a little bit, hooper.

If you bothered to read my entire OP, you would have seen where another person involved with the event said where he got part of the official story:

- Pennsylvania's Ground Zero
Written by Tim Lambert
"According to investigators, the cockpit of the aircraft separated from the plane upon impact and flew into the trees, where it disintegrated."

Now you can logically deduce the source of the information. Have at it!

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper
Sorry, real logic dictates that there is no way to logically deduce the source of the information.

Let me help you out a little bit, hooper.

If you bothered to read my entire OP, you would have seen where another person involved with the event said where he got part of the official story:

- Pennsylvania's Ground Zero
Written by Tim Lambert
"According to investigators, the cockpit of the aircraft separated from the plane upon impact and flew into the trees, where it disintegrated."

Now you can logically deduce the source of the information. Have at it!

You really don't have a firm grasp of logic do you? That's quite apparent. You like to splice things together with assumptions, that's guesswork, not logic. You are assuming that because another person was told the same thing by "investigators" that, of course, Wally Miller was also advised by these same "investigators" and then further go on to assume that "investigator" equals FBI. For all you know the person in the above article was the one that spoke with Wally Miller.

Please list all persons on the scene that could be described as "investigators". Here is a partial list:
FBI
FAA
NTSB
State Police
Local Police
Local Fire Investigators
and most importantly:
anyone that someone thinks is an investigator.

reply to post by ATH911

To the casual eye, it looked like solid, consolidated ground but in reality the reclaimed expanse was loose and uncompacted. When flight 93 hit the ground, the cockpit and first-class cabin broke off, scattered into millions of fragments that spread and flew like shrapnel into and through the trees 20 metres away

Cockpit and first class cabin broke off - that is 1/3 of the aircraft

On of the wings struck ground first - it was the shock of this impact which caused cockpit and forward section
to break free

The FBI was the lead agency and performed the search and recovery, assisted by other agencies including
PA State Police and local Fire departments.

Miller as coroner was the legal offical responsible for recovery and identification of human remains, issuing
of death certificates for all the victims including probable cause of death

From the debris pattern can discern the probable breakup scenario - this was done by the NTSB as technical
experts in investigating aircraft accidents could tell from what part of the aircraft the debris was from. By
examination of the debris can tell how and when in the breakup scenario it was fractured

Here are some pictures of debris in the woods

fuselage sections





debris in woods

Originally posted by hooper

You really don't have a firm grasp of logic do you? That's quite apparent.

Pot calling the Kettle "black."

You are assuming that because another person was told the same thing by "investigators" that, of course, Wally Miller was also advised by these same "investigators" and then further go on to assume that "investigator" equals FBI.

They are all officials, pick one. It still would be the official story, the one you're obviously trying to distance yourself from.

For all you know the person in the above article was the one that spoke with Wally Miller.

Um, that guys was just one of the land owners. I think Wally is smarter and more professional to repeat 2nd-hand info from one of the land owners, but make it sound like he was told by head officials, don't you agree?

reply to post by thedman


So, what Wally said was the correct official story?

reply to post by ATH911

Um, that guys was just one of the land owners. I think Wally is smarter and more professional to repeat 2nd-hand info from one of the land owners, but make it sound like he was told by head officials, don't you agree?

Why? In fact, Wally, being a local may in fact have known the gentleman in the above article and probably did not know any of the 'investigators". In the end all you have is Mr. Miller saying "as it was explained to me..." with no note as to who explained it to him. End of story. Is it "official"? No. When you see it in print in a government produced report then it is "official".

reply to post by Six Sigma


"Hijacker identification documents and personal effects were recovered"

I'm really glad that amidst all the fire, explosions, burning jet fuel and things being turned to dust their IDs remained intact and were found and this happened at all three locations that day. Why aren't we making airplanes out of passport and drivers license material?

reply to post by AlexKintner

I'm really glad that amidst all the fire, explosions, burning jet fuel and things being turned to dust....

You realize that the planes crashed, they didn't fly into cosmic black hole, right? In fact, most of the physicallity of the planes survived the impact so its not suprising that things both small and large survived.

Originally posted by hooper
Is it "official"? No. When you see it in print in a government produced report then it is "official".

So it's not "official" that all alleged UA93 passengers were identified?

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper
Is it "official"? No. When you see it in print in a government produced report then it is "official".

So it's not "official" that all alleged UA93 passengers were identified?

To you, no. To me yes. Don't feel like searching all the documents, but I'm sure its there in one of the releases. Plus there are death certificates for all the deceased. I don't have standing to request them, but maybe you can sue to get copies. Good luck!

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
So it's not "official" that all alleged UA93 passengers were identified?

To you, no. To me yes.

Well let us know when you have an official crash story for us so we know which goal post to aim for from the constant revolving and absent ones you OCTs give us.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
So it's not "official" that all alleged UA93 passengers were identified?

To you, no. To me yes.

Well let us know when you have an official crash story for us so we know which goal post to aim for from the constant revolving and absent ones you OCTs give us.

edit on 22-4-2011 by ATH911 because: (no reason given)

Why do you keep asking anonymous poster's on internet forums for "official" information regarding flight 93? You've been given a stack of contacts to reach out to, if you really[/] want an official story why not call the officials? I personally don't care about the dynamics of a crash caused by a handful of murderous religious zealots. Whether the nose was 40 degrees to the horizon or 41.35 degrees is of no concern.