This election will ruin the US

Who ever wins we lose. Bush will screw the economy but Kerry will screw our military. If Kerry reduces our military then terrorist will attack with out fear of reprsisal. If Bush wins well everybody hates him for a lot of reasons. I just wonder what happened to the good old days when we had good presidents. What will we do with these horrible leaders.

It won't matter which wins. According to the Bible Code, Bush will win. But whoever wins, we have already entered the End of Days.

Check this out: onealclan0.tripod.com...

1 million new jobs since January. 3 million possible by November.
All time low interest rates. Tax cuts. Medicare growth. Strong military.

Bush will do what to the economy?

I'm curious, how/why would Bush ruin the economy? Since it is the fastest growing economy in the last 20 years. The resession can hardly be blamed on him, rationally, the dot com boom was no administrations doing, though Clinton and company try to take credit. It was an oddity, and revelolutionary boom, and was bound to level out, just like it did. Nobodies fault, thats how it works.

I understand your consern about Kerry, his voting record reguarding the military, and the democrates record in general for weakening the military is profound.

I just wonder what happened to the good old days when we had good presidents. What will we do with these horrible leaders.

I think thats a matter of perspective, I think there are people, that feel this way every election year. So it might be a new feeling to you, but trust me, I've heard that ever election year I've been alive.

[edit on 22-6-2004 by Darktalon]

Hasn't every great civilization in this country risen, peaked and then began a fall?
If one could speculate that, say the JFK assassination marked the beginning of the downward slope for this country, then no matter who wins we will still be on that downward trend.
It doesn't mean there will be no more good times, as cr and Darktalon mentioned.

And, please, let's not get too excited and have this end up in the pits

[edit on 22-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Where do you get that John Kerry will reduce the military, more propaganda I suspect,

�Americans deserve a principled diplomacy...backed by undoubted military might...based on enlightened self-interest, not the zero-sum logic of power politics...a diplomacy that commits America to lead the world toward liberty and prosperity. A bold progressive internationalism that focuses not just on the immediate and imminent, but insidious dangers that can mount over the next years and decade, dangers that span the spectrum from the denial of democracy, to destructive weapons, endemic poverty and epidemic disease. These are not just issues of international order, but vital issues of our own national security.�

from johnkerry.com

BTW, more jobs were lost under Bush than have been created!!!

I am not a demo or repub so spare the mudpit crap.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
BTW, more jobs were lost under Bush than have been created!!!

Well it seems that even so we are still on the track to recover them.

For the third month in a row, a greater than expected number of new jobs were added to the U.S. economy. The gain of 248,000 new jobs in May brings the total for this year to well over one million jobs created.

The Labor Department announced on Friday that 248,000 jobs were added to the economy in May and revised the March and April job numbers to 353,000 and 346,000 respectively.

This brings the cumulative number of jobs created in the past nine months to nearly 1.6 million, with new jobs being created in every month since September 2003.

Economists are pleased with the positive jobs report this year and see it as a sign of a robust economy on the right track.

Sung Won Sohn, chief economist for Wells Fargo & Co., predicted that the economy would add an average of 200,000 jobs per month for the rest of 2004 and said that unemployment would gradually fall to as low as 5 percent by the end of 2005.

"These blow-out [jobs] numbers so far this year are convincing evidence that the economic recovery is here to stay," Sohn declared to the Associated Press.

So 1.5 Millions jobs in three months eh?

So why is the economy so screwed again?

Link

Whats this about economic recovery?

I thought Bush gave up snorting coke years back.

Jobs created, it doesnt mention the number of jobs LOST.

If the economy is so good, then why the hell cant I even find a part time job? I got laid off a month ago from a part time job. And cant find one, part time or other, to replace it.

I went to Monster to look for jobs, applied there. In the good old days, when the economy was going normal and relatively smooth, a typical monster job listing for my area contained a minimum of about 3 pages of job listings per category.

Now, most job listings are about average of 10 job listings for the whole category, not even a full page.

Economic recovery? For WHO? Are the jobs he claims are being created in the US, or elsewhere? I still see a huge number of people on unemployment. My mother's friend was mid level managment for Boeing, she still cant find work.

Oh, by the way, most of these new jobs created pay like ALOT less than jobs have in the past, with reduced benefits. Little to no medical, retirement plans kinda choking out, ect. So, I suppose new jobs are being created here. Working for peanuts. So much for the good old days of having the American Dream? Hell, the new American dream:

Find a job that pays enopugh so I can at least have a shack over my head, cheap canned food to eat, and pray to god I dont get sick.

By the way, I dont support Kerry. Not only is he another Irish catholic from Massechusets and a silent supporter of the IRA, but hes also gonna continue this "war on terror" instead of stopping it and turning us on a path of sanity. Oh, and hes Skull and Bones too, BTW. Basically he is George Dubya Bush in a different package.

Now if he Nullifies NAFTA< Ill be impressed.

Bush killing the economy?

Tax Cuts that have driven the deficit into its highest levels "EVER"
Creating an unstable market system by waging war without being provoked (yeah I know they are better off but come on, Saddam DID NOT attack us).
Slashing social programs, further driving the poor downward.
Failure to put any money into our education system.
Allowing state economies to virutally collapse.

See I think Bush could have been the greatest president we have seen in a very long time. He had this country in his back pocket after 9/11. He did exactly what he should have done by attacking Afghanistan. If he had taken the billions spent on the war in Iraq and used it to shore up this economy and secured our borders, I would be knocking door to door to get him re-elected. He chose instead to create a doctrine of pre-emption.

That is why I agree this election will ruin us. If Bush wins you will see another war, also more freedom will be pulled from us in the name of security. This economy will recover some, but as they say when you hit rock bottom the only place to go is up.

If Kerry wins we will probably be so busy trying to discuss everything we will miss the next big problem. He will also be worried about ticking off the far left so he won't have the guts to step up as Bush did after 9/11.

Either way the next 4 years are going to be a very trying time for America. I hope that by 2008 we see a really strong, dedicated leader emerge, regardless of his party affiliation.

For the record. I vote for the candidate I feel will best lead our nation regardless of what party they belong too.

[edit on 6/22/2004 by nativeokie]

We are already screwed. I don't like the way this government is running things. I don't like the fact that religion plays a mojor role in politics. I know this country was founded on Chritian values but I'm sick of it. I love this country but this government is really ticking me off. We went to Iraq for no reason, I'm still unsure how I feel about going to Afghanistan. Censorship is really pissing me off Either way kids are going to look at naked women when they have sex (duh) and say "dirty" words, whatever makes them words "dirty" I don't know. If we do get Kerry the military will get weak, and might have a higher risk of getting hit agian. If Bush is around, we may have to pray a lot more, I'm catholic but I'm just tired with promoting it, if people want it, they will go, don't change their believes.

The direction of our country from a true democratic republic to the NWO facist state so desired by shrub's gang of thieves and predicted by bush41 are chilling but not irreversible.


"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

---Teddy Roosevelt



And please spare me your biblical end times BS!!! This is why shrubs gang of criminals feel its okay to rape our planet since it will be gone soon anyway, so why not profit today!!! Give me a F**KING BREAK!!!


KERRY IN 2004!!!

RETURN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY TO AMERICA & TRUE AMERICANS!!

WWW.DEMOCRACY FOR AMERICA.COM

wow, really some of you need to take some economic classes, aswell as some history class.

Some of the points I've seen.

1. Bush did not cause job losses, factors to that, 1. Dot com bust didn't care who was in office, it was going to bust sooner or later, just as every other major expansion in economy, it happened with car companies, ect... Any time a market explodes in size, it finally stabilizes. 2. 911 not only killed people, it killed the economy also. 3. There is no possible way a president can effect the economy so soon in his term. Every economic expert I have talked to, or have heard talk, says most of the time the changes done by a president aren't even seen until the next term. So most of the time the president that did the good work is out of office when we, the people, see the fruits of that labor. Tax cuts are the exception.

2. Wars do not unstablize the economy. Infact, wars help the economy, what got us out of the great depression? WW2. And if you look at our history, we have had great economic success during and right after wars.

3. Giving taxes cuts helps with the deficate, 1. it gives money back to us to spend. Money spent is money taxed. The more money movies the more it's taxed. If its taxed once and goes to a federal fund, thats it. If its taxed, some of it returned, then we use it, or invest it, its taxed again, and again.

4. No Iraq didn't attack us. They broke a treaty, they broke sactions, and they were plotting to attack us. All reasons to go to war.

5. Slashing social programs, 1. saves us money from our deficate, 2. many people believe that these programs do more harm then good for lower income families; their taxed too, the people working and striving for a better life aren't the ones that benefit from these programs, the people that do nothing are the ones the benefit, they have more kids just to get more money, people take advantage of the programs and don't better their lives because they are given what they need. 3. These programs fatten the government offices, and we spend more money employing executive posistions because of the size.

6. How John Kerry will down size our military, 1. Every Democratic president since JFK(but not including him) has gutted the military and intel agencies. 2. He has voted against every major and most minor advancements in the military. 3. He voted against the Bush lead pay increase for military service men and women. 4. Most of the high ranking military and intel agency officers, and senators (democrat and rebulican) believe he will do this. Most polls say he is the worse of the two for national defense, even among his supporters.

There are many things I don't like about Bush and his administration, one is the fact that religion plays to much into his administration, and I believe that to be wrong. But come on say something about the guy that atleast is the truth. He has done a great job getting the economy back up, and didn't make it drop in the first place. Now talk about stem-cell research and I'm against him, talk about abortion and I'm against him. But I'ld rather have him, and disagree about those things, then watch my friends die because Kerry cuts defense programs.

This is definatly an election of who sucks less. Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't.

There is no saving the US as is. We are on a ripple of a big wave on its high side. The wave will crash. It may not be today or tommorow, but it will happen.

Everything has a life and a death. The US is pretty young, but they have cancer and dont know it. It will die before its time.

Darktalon,

Looks like your teacher forgot to teach you the repercussions of tax cuts do on the long term to and economy and complex and multifaceted as ours, the last I hear in the news, even Mr. Bush did not wanted to talk about our national debt.

No body like taxes, but they are a necessary evil.

Originally posted by marg6043
Darktalon,

Looks like your teacher forgot to teach you the repercussions of tax cuts do on the long term to and economy and complex and multifaceted as ours, the last I hear in the news, even Mr. Bush did not wanted to talk about our national debt.

No body like taxes, but they are a necessary evil.

No please go further into that, I would love to know what tax cuts do to the long term economy. Since you seem to not be able to seperate economy and national dept, this should be interesting.

Three biggest economic growth periods happened when in the last 50 years? Hmmm after the JFK, Regan and Bush tax cuts. National Dept and Economy are two serperat beasts.

As for the national dept, taking a lot of money once, is not better then taxing that money over and over again.

The tax cut was used to stimulate the economy, and it did.

TextNo please go further into that, I would love to know what tax cuts do to the long term economy. Since you seem to not be able to seperate economy and national dept, this should be interesting.

ha, ha, ha, you got me there I have to admit my mistake, I will be back with you on that one.

Lets see, our glorious economy,

1- US jobs losses at three million.

stats.bls.gov...

This link is an Unemployment table for may 2004.

The national debt is 7.3 trillion dollars

It is funny how governments get desperate in the election year to make miracles happen, and they are good when it comes to play with numbers.

The main things about those charts are the unemployment rate. You can't go by how many people are unemployed, because as a county grows in population, the amount of unemployment goes up, it's all about the percentages.

So during the great depression for example, we had less people unemployed then we do now, but the unemployment rate was something like 25%.

The average unemployment rate while Bill Clinton was in office was 5.6(I believe). The average for W. Bush is like 5.7(I believe). I'll be checking to see if those numbers are correct. I do know they were almost the same as of 6 months ago, and with the economy now, Bush might have a better rate. I know his rate average for first term is better then Clinton's(Bill had a 7+% rating for awhile, where Bush's highest was 6.4).

[edit on 23-6-2004 by Darktalon]

The biggest problem I see with any unemployment debate is that people unemployed over a year literally fall off the chart. They compare NEW jobless claims to people that replace employment within the first year of the initial claim (even with a substandard job) and say so and so many new jobs created.

Well once the effects of downsizing or outsourcing or whatever are pretty much saturated, it's like those people don't matter any more.

The very county I'm in claimed some ridiculous "recovery" numbers recently about new jobless claims being down despite creating no jobs simply because the mill has been closed long enough that no one seeking employment can claim unemployment anymore. That's "recovery"?

I guess in a way it is. Out of site, out of mind. The homeless aren't technically unemployed either. Someone taking an 80% paycut to work at Wal-Mart so as not to starve isn't unemployed either. Entrepreneurs that lose everything aren't unemployed either.

BAH. I hate politicians throwing around meaningless numbers.