Was San Bruno "natural gas explosion" a meteorite?

Well.. uh.. hrmm I'm beginning to wonder... if.. uhh.. Sherry Shriner and her orgone warriors have anything to do with this.. (ok that's tongue in cheek)... but then there is that Gary McKinnon non-terrestrial fleet fiasco.. and do y'all really really think that nothing is going on up there we don't know about? Anyone in the area see any strange non-discript vehicles and people there snooping around? How off-limits is the site? I know I know it's a reach.. am I suggesting a little battle up there? Like Sherry says? no.. well.. maybe.. really who knows.. but it's interesting that all near earth objects are now classified by the US military.. hrmm (see: www.space.com... ) And sightings of fireballs (according to the site listed in previous post) is rather extensive.. And if you trust the MSM to be 100% accurate and truthful.. well, I just don't have words for that, it's pointless i think by now.. but for those that want to think and speculate, make for an interesting weekend ponder.. Anyone in the Bay Area care to go see if you can find some spheroids or look for strange tell-tale signs.. I suppose the men in black would look like PG&E workers! heh..

Also was just wondering, has there ever been a gas explosion (residential otherwise) of this magnitude? Or is this the biggest one yet?? (assuming it was simply that).. Ciao 4 now.. y'all have a nice day. RDDS

reply to post by GoldenFleece

Actually, I'm simply spending some quality time gathering information for people to discern what they choose from the perspective I see things. That is how I believe things work around here. Of course, this debate isn't really much of one as all you have done is bring up additional instances of asteroids, meteorites and fireballs including ones from the future to make some point which I still don't understand. I've even brought up over 1500 sightings to add to your cause, or was that to dispute it? I've never once said that a meteorite couldn't be responsible for the explosion but rather am looking at the available information and reaching my own decision. You certainly don't have to agree and can choose to stick to your own illogical conclusion based on articles about things that fall from the sky regardless of how or if they are related.

I'm well aware of the two asteroids that passed between the Earth and moon earlier in the week. The fact that you feel the need to mention that implies that you didn't take the time to read the posts I linked in my initial post which discussed said asteroids. The fact that you bring nothing to this post except mention of meteors, asteroids and fireballs and the speculation that these events are related implies to me that your mind was made up from the beginning and your thread title really didn't deserve a question mark. The fact that you have failed to answer numerous questions specifically addressed to you but rather add story after story about meteorites that may have something to do with the explosion speaks for itself.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
No way was yesterday's massive blast that destroyed 53 homes and gouged a 50-foot crater in the ground a residential natural gas explosion.

Your wording confuses me a bit with the term residential. Because of it, I can only speculate that you're thinking of a small diameter gas pipe entering a residence instead of admitting, knowing or understanding that a 30 inch high pressure transmission line was beneath the ground.

Pacific Gas and Electric Co. President Chris Johns said Friday morning a 30-inch gas pipe ruptured about three feet underground just before 6:30 p.m Thursday...

Source

Representatives of Pacific Gas and Electric Co. said they did not know what caused a 30-inch, high-pressure gas pipeline to rupture at about 6:15 p.m. Thursday...

Source

A decades-old, 30-inch diameter gas main may have fed the explosion and fire Thursday that destroyed homes and killed or injured residents of the Crestmoor Canyon area of San Bruno.

Source

Here's a picture that supplements azzllin's one for you to gaze at a while.




Here's a few, of many, craters created by gas explosions. Or the meteorites that have been targeting gas lines for years.

The landscape resembled a battlefield with a crater 120 feet wide and 60 feet deep, shaped like a giant's footprint. Deep inside, a stub of jagged pipeline protruded

Source

Four people were confirmed dead and at least four others reportedly suffered serious or critical injuries as a result of an explosion at the Little General Store on U.S.19 in Ghent […] the original 911 call came in at 10:43 a.m. and reported a propane leak at the gas station, which is across the street from the Flat Top Lake entrance.

A gaping crater from an explosion no one could have possibly imagined in a somnolent place like Ghent, not because explosions like that are foreign to southern West Virginians

Source



I can't fathom why you're telling me to relax. Do I seem excited and worried about gas explosions that occasionally happen or meteorites that fall everyday?

I probably should have taken the first sentence of your thread quite literally.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Hmmm... a "flash of flame that crossed the sky." Move along folks, nothing to see here...

You're right and we can finally agree. There is nothing to see here.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Hmmm... a "flash of flame that crossed the sky." Move along folks, nothing to see here...

Read what he said again:

... a flash of flame crossed the sky.

....the fireball, which seemed to reach 100 feet into the sky

.... geyser of fire

The flash of flame reached up from the ground and crossed the sky...... There is nothing in this report - or any other - to suggest an extraterrestrial cause.

Yes, hundreds of meteorites do hit the Earth every day (most landing unnoticed in the oceans, arctic regions, jungles or desert) but there's absolutely no reason to suppose one was responsible for this incident.

Some more information I found.

Gas Explosions Not Uncommon

In 2009, there were 158 natural-gas distribution pipeline incidents reported to PHMSA that killed 10 people, injured 50 and caused almost $32 million in property damage.

All Reported Pipeline Incidents
There's actually a lot of statistics here regarding gas transmission, distribution and other pipeline incidents for a 19 years period. For example, from 1990-2009 there were 2,672 gas distribution incidents with 291 fatalities 1,191 injuries and almost a billion dollars in property damages.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

 

Would an underground explosion leave a huge oval-shaped crater?

Gas Pipeline Blowout Photos

The natural gas pipeline explosion below did not occur as a result of digging but because of corrosion. The explosion occurred Sept 14th, 2008 near Appomattox Virginia on a natural gas transmission line owned by Williams Energy

These pictures are from that event. Notice how familiar they look? More photos at the link.


This picture should assist those who are having some difficulty in grasping how this can happen from a gas line. I am not an expert on gas lines, however I think this one is almost self explanatory. The initial pressure from the blast had to go somewhere. Just like water finds the path of least resistance so did the gas. The few feet of ground above the pipe was easier for the pressure to break through than the solid ground beneath it. I believe I can also see some ground disturbance below the pipe. The gas that was under high pressure was flowing from the bottom left towards the upper right which is suggested by the pattern of the crater. In my opinion, the difference between this crater and the one in San Bruno is caused by the place and direction that the burst occurred within the pipe. This one may have burst more in the direction of the elongated crater while the San Bruno one burst more in upward direction since the photo looks more ovular than elongated. The fact that the San Bruno hole has water in it, as someone mentioned, doesn't surprise me as the fire was fought with water and it collected itself into the crater.




I probably have to place some sort of a disclaimer since it's 2010 and people can't think for themselves so, don't try this at home. However, if one were to take a propane torch and go outside to an area of dirt or sand that's clear of its surroundings catching fire, water handy as a precaution, safety glasses and half a brain, they could probably do an experiment. One could hold the lit torch close to parallel to the ground and see what happens. As another experiment one could dig a hole large enough for the torch to fit in and then proceed to act as though they were boring through the ground, at a slightly upward angle, and see what happens to the ground to demonstrate how the ground might look and how it would react. But like I said, don't try this at home.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


The meteorite could have hit a gas line, just throwing that out there if someone hasn't yet.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Just so you know, did you see the size of the pipeline that burst and the section that was ejected?


Thats the pipe in the street, notice its size in comparison to the cars and people. This was not some 1 inch pipe bursting.



another picture of the pipeline section. This was a pretty darn big pipe that blew. And it seems about the right dimensions of the crater as well.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Also, tha loud roar would have been the sound of the gas pipe leaking right before igniting. I have heard that description many times before with large gas line explosions. The roar of the gas right before ignition and blast.





Here is a sampling of the sound of a large gas line fire.

I think I know what happened. Too much lighter fluid! Here is the culprit!

From the San Francisco Chronicle


Jerry Guernsey had spent the day working on his '57 Chevy on Concord Way, just blocks from the impact, where he's lived for 25 years. He'd fired up the barbecue in his backyard when it sounded like a jetliner had dropped from the sky. "But the noise just kept going," he said.

Inside the house, his wife, Carole, looked outside where a great fireball rose into the air.

"Gosh blangit Jerry! How many times have I told you to buy the self lighting charcoal instead of using the lighter fluid! Now look what you done did!"

































































J/K on that last quote

reply to post by Three_moons

Interesting data from the links you supplied. Alot of information to pour over. I took a look at just the California incidents and was unable to find an example of 'spontaneous explosion of a gas distribution pipeline.' The explosions seem to be related to construction and in the majority caused by 3rd parties digging where they shouldn't be digging.

There was a fatality(s) in 2003 that was determined to be caused by a previous patch the utility had placed on an existing pipeline and this patch was determined to have been improperly effected.

This data was supplied for an almost 10 year period and doesn't seem to indicate in any way that a spontaneous explosion is common or even very possible. I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that gave the example of the oven door open with the gas on but I'm finding it difficult to visualize this situation with a pipe that exploded buried under quite a bit of dirt judging by the crater. Of course, I'm not an expert, not even an amateur but that example seems a little far fetched without an ignition factor that is able to penetrate through the ground.

Several witnesses saw something in the sky and a number of witnesses heard a 'roar' coming from above and a number of witnesses thought it was a plane. These reports also do not correllate with a situation limited to the underground. One witness reported that everything shook EXCEPT the floor and that was how she knew it wasn't an earthquake. Anyway thanks for the data.

Between this incident, and the one in Colombia, thoughts of the movie Armageddon come to mind. Esp the precursor meteorite strikes before "the big one".

Just tossing it out there.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
No way was yesterday's massive blast that destroyed 53 homes and gouged a 50-foot crater in the ground a residential natural gas explosion.

I tried questioning this in the other thread and was basically called a Sorchal Faal nut. I don't understand how the explosion could have been so massive, and whenever I ask somebody to show the science behind it, I'm told that it's obvious and there's no need.

edit on 9/10/2010 by SonicInfinity because: Fixed quote

You need to be shown the 'science' behind a massive gas explosion?

REALLY?

Okay, here's a test. Turn on your gas oven, but dont light it. Then, in about 4 days, light a cigarette.

edited to add: I see you are referring to it as a 'residential gas explosion'. that may be the problem. IT was a gas MAIN, not someone's hot water heater.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Three_moons

 

You sure are spending an extraordinary amount of time and effort trying to convince anyone who'll listen that a small meteorite couldn't be responsible for damage that's greater than a residential-area natural gas explosion. Why is that?

i know, right? And all those graphs and links and his use of logic! It's a crying shame!

maybe cuz thats what we do here: Deny Ignorance.,

and you sure are spending an extraordinary amount of time trying to claim it IS a meteorite. Why is that?

If a meteor had hit that pipe it would have buried that pipe deep into the ground. Look at the section that was removed, it's obvious the pipe burst and wasn't smashed flat.

reply to post by GenRadek

You gave me idea by posting the videos with the whooshing sound of gas. I put together a test for all to enjoy. There is the sound from a gas line on fire and a commercial jet at altitude. Or is it a commercial jet and a gas fire? In between the 2 sound clips is a palette cleanser for your ears. I edited them as follows. I trimmed the clips, I added fades to the beginning and end of both clips, I adjusted the volume to similar levels and I removed the engine whine from the appropriate clip via an EQ adjustment. Listen how similar they sound. Anyone care to guess which is which? I'll be back with the answers, and sources, if anyone wants.

Fire and plane sound comparison

reply to post by luxordelphi

I agree with everything you said regarding the possible causes although would also add corrosion as a factor as I saw that at least once. It wasn't me that gave the oven analogy but you appear to be forgetting about the reports of a gas smell for a couple of weeks, so it seems that gas was permeating somewhere and for a while. I suspect that's what allowed any number of possible ignition sources to initiate the explosion. I read at least one report that the smell was coming from the sewers which only adds to the possibilities. For all we know someone could have threw a cigarette down a storm drain. I'm thinking along the lines that the gas, however it began leaking, continues to do so and eventually gathered enough in an area and simply waited for a spark. That's my assumption and I'm a novice at best here. My crash course began 2 days ago.

The area was in the flight path for at least 2 runways, if I remember correctly, so they were used to planes and when hearing noises that sound like them our brains will think it's coming from where they usually do. That's what I'm playing out in my head. I figure a plane passed overhead at the time of the explosion or just before it. Who expects a gas line to explode? Who anticipates the possibility of a plane crashing there? In the moments following such an event I doubt anyone's minds are very clear and that they're just trying to put two and two together, even if it equals 5 at the time. The pictures and live feed came out almost instantly and were continuous for quite a while. I didn't see any kind of a media black out and saw pictures and video from daybreak the following morning and didn't see anything remotely close to a plane. I don't believe there was the necessary time to remove a plane and I believe parts of it would have survived seeing other metal items survive. Therefore, I base my above belief on that information. Speculative? Absolutely. Logical? I believe so.

I'm not sure what to make of that report where everything shook except for the floor. I believe I only heard of one report like that. My best guess would be that the house was in a position where the rush of gas and the pressure from the fire affected it that way. It could possibly account for that I think, even though I may not be explaining it the best I can. This point is definitely a bit mysterious for me. I'd be curious as to the location of the house it was felt in at least.

Originally posted by justadood
maybe cuz thats what we do here: Deny Ignorance.

I thought that's what we do here too.

Originally posted by Three_moons
It wasn't me that gave the oven analogy but you appear to be forgetting about the reports of a gas smell for a couple of weeks, so it seems that gas was permeating somewhere and for a while. I suspect that's what allowed any number of possible ignition sources to initiate the explosion.

Just one problem -- odorants aren't added to transmission pipelines:

In the case of natural gas, the gas is typically transported without any odor indicators which are used to detect leaks. These odor indicators are added at the distribution points where the gas is then carried by distribution pipelines. These distribution pipelines are smaller in size and service the gas company customers. The odorant is added to help people detect a gas leak. However, the odorant is not added to the transportation pipelines due to its weight and cost.

The only real questions are, what caused the pipeline to leak and what was the ignition source? Neither of these questions have been answered or even plausibly hypothesized.

Even though there's no proof of a meteorite, the fact that two asteroids passed within very close distance to Earth on the very night of the explosion means it can't be summarily dismissed either. The resulting explosion would've eliminated both the impact crater and pipeline breach.

This account of a pea-sized meteorite hitting a German teenager in 2009 is very interesting, especially since the meteorite went on to bury itself in a road:

14-year-old hit by 30,000 mph space meteorite

Gerrit Blank, 14, was on his way to school when he saw "ball of light" heading straight towards him from the sky.

A red hot, pea-sized piece of rock then hit his hand before bouncing off and causing a foot wide crater in the ground.

The teenager survived the strike, the chances of which are just 1 in a million - but with a nasty three-inch long scar on his hand.

He said: "At first I just saw a large ball of light, and then I suddenly felt a pain in my hand.

"Then a split second after that there was an enormous bang like a crash of thunder."

"The noise that came after the flash of light was so loud that my ears were ringing for hours afterwards.

"When it hit me it knocked me flying and then was still going fast enough to bury itself into the road," he explained.

...The only other known example of a human being surviving a meteor strike happened in Alabama, USA, in November 1954 when a grapefruit-sized fragment crashed through the roof of a house, bounced off furniture and landed on a sleeping woman.

Overall though, I'd have to admit the San Bruno explosion is a perplexing case. Even though I no longer believe the evidence of a meteorite strike is overwhelming, circumstantial factors preclude it from being ruled out.

reply to post by Three_moons

Your logic seems sound to me and certainly worth responding to. The reports of gas smells I had immediately discounted because first responders stated they had not heard anything like that. That would seem to me to be something that first responders would immediately try to clarify for their own safety. Where and how these smells entered the record was also unclear from the witness accounts reported. No names that I recall were attached to these even though many names were given with the other accounts. It was sort of a vague 'some residents reported' sort of thing.

The flight path analogy and the sort of one sees what they expect to see and hears what is in one's experience to hear is an excellent point. I have some experience with heightened senses in a disaster having been through a major earthquake. During the quake there was a sound like a freight train coming through the house. Even though that's what it sounded like, I knew it wasn't that. Even though everything was crashing around me, I knew that the sound was coming from the north and from above ground. Later I learned that the mountains to the north had risen almost a foot in the space of a few minutes. Because of my experience, I tend to give some credence to the accounts of a streak in the sky and the location of sound.

The media lag is a bit harder for me to explain but I will try. Local channels reported the news immediately but the mainstream didn't get on board until many hours later. In my understanding, newsrooms these days get an immediate feed because the bulk of MSM is a packaged event. The local affiliates throw in some local stories but the major portion is the same station to station. These are not investigative reporters or even reporters at all, they just read what instantaneously comes across their global network. This was a major event and there was no reason for any lag at all.

Reading the news today is also curious in that the pipe has now been declared by federal and state as 'high risk.' The reason given for this is because it is in a populated area. To me, that's nonsense, but perhaps more will be revealed. Anyway, thanks for the back & forth.

reply to post by GoldenFleece

That's the first I heard about where the odorant enters the pipelines. That's an interesting find GoldenFleece. I briefly checked it out myself too and found the same information from multiple sources. Here's two links if anyone wants to see for themselves. I think the first link was your source GF.

Link
Link

That certainly sheds some new light on the situation. Keep in mind that they say it typically isn't transported with odorant and it, at least partially, depends on state and federal regulations and the use of the gas (from the second link). Let's assume for a moment that this pipeline did not have odorant in it. What can we speculate about the reports of odor in general and specifically coming from the sewer? How does gas even enter the sewer system?

The cause of the leak, from previous ones, could be attributed to digging, poor maintenance, faulty repairs and corrosion to name a few I remember. Depending on where it was leaking, and the potential of gases gathering in a relatively small area, could make an ignition source something as simple as a BBQ or a cigarette outside. Since we're still assuming the pipeline was odorless for the moment that only makes those sources more likely assuming the transmission pipe was leaking. Were the previous gas odors a coincidence? I don't know but I'll contemplate this new information.

The two asteroids that passed were relatively small and one of the articles about it specifically stated how technology has only enabled us to spot them recently. Presumably, they've always been occurring, with good assumptions, and we simply didn't know about them. This could be used for or against either theory though. I believe I remember reading that the pipe was buried a few feet below the ground which is supported by the pictures. How big of a meteorite would be needed to survive the Earth's atmosphere and penetrate the ground enough to do the damage necessary? The impact app I listed earlier could potentially answer that although there's too many variables for me to accurately use it. The pictures of the pipe clearly show an outward burst without any sort of deformation that I would expect from an impact. I suspect a meteorite large enough to penetrate the ground a few feet would leave some evidence of it. Granted, we haven't seen every piece of the pipe either. With your pea sized meteorite reference in mind, if this was an above ground pipeline I would give the meteorite theory a lot more credence as it wouldn't take a very large piece of something traveling at a great speed to puncture a hole that could create an explosion.

It sure is perplexing and we're all just kicking ideas around based on limited information. The cause is still full of speculation but there's quite a few issues that make me think a meteorite was not the cause. I'll gladly retract my opinion if different information comes to light.

I hope you don't mind but I shared your findings about the odorless gas in the pipelines in the Huge blast in San Bruno; neighborhood on fire thread and credited you and linked back to here.


reply to post by luxordelphi

I hadn't discredited the gas smells because I didn't recall any reports of phone calls to the fire department but instead only to the gas company. I've seen at least a few reports that the gas company was reviewing their records to make sense of the situation so I'm presuming the reports were genuine.

I took a vast part of my reference to the media from the live local feed I was watching online until 11:00PM Pacific Time when they switched to regular programming. There were references online to it from the major media although I couldn't tell you about my local news as I wasn't watching it that night. I personally don't expect the major stations to pick up a local story like this immediately. It is breaking news and of interest to us but in the greater scheme of things it's only a local event at that time, in my opinion. The following morning I saw it on the major news and I personally didn't suspect anything suspicious about it.

From the mountain rising earthquake reference you made I'm assuming you were affected by the Easter quake in Baja. If I'm correct, let me ask you this for a comparison. I really don't know if my speculation will pan out here or not but I'll give it a shot. When did your local news first first pick up the story on 9/11? I live within a 100 miles of NYC. Many commute there daily from my area and many radio stations are between here and there and carry news, traffic and weather for both areas. I get NY news and local news with my cable TV. I presume because of that I heard about it immediately. It was essentially local news for me. I presume others didn't pick up on the story until the second plane hit when it was apparent that something nefarious was happening.

I don't recall reading anything about it being high risk although I though it was curious when I heard that the FBI was being dispatched there. Curiously, I don't recall hearing anything else about them. I also don't know their protocol so maybe that's normal. I was also surprised to hear that the NTSB was called in but that just shows my ignorance of their scope of duties and relationship with the PHMSA. Nice chatting with you luxordelphi.

Ok I am not a natural gas explosion expert but, I have repaired several gas lines in my tour as a plumber.
First off my experience is almost exclusively residential I have about 20% of my time in commercial.
That being said the biggest pipe of any category I ever dealt with was 16 inch pipe.
The pipe that burst was a 30 inch main.
I would imagine this pipe would have a huge volume of gas.
There is some speculation that some of the residents thought a jet crashed, there is also some speculation that people smelled gas in the previous weeks.
I am not saying this is or isn’t anything, but I understand how both stories could be thought.
When this gas would escape through a leak it will crawl along the ground until it finds flame, spark, Etc.
This is why water heaters in the US must be on a platform nowadays as to keep the pilot on gas heaters above any gas accumulation.
We all know that natural gas needs a mostly enclosed area in order to go boom, which is why they suggest opening doors and windows if you think you have a leak.
Now for the confusion of a jet, when the gas was sparked it would react similar to lightning as it burned the air but instead of hearing a crack you would hear a whoosh sound as the air rushed back into the void left by the burning gas.
This could be the sound people heard as the alleged “jet” crashed in.
As for the ‘impact’ crater someone suggested that said crater did not look like an asteroid crater as it has no burm, this also makes sense.
But with a 30 inch line blowing out debris and water running around the streets from firefighters hoses, evidence of an impact could be washed away very easy unintentionally.
Both stories are plausible but here is the kicker.
We will never know for sure as we cannot get to ground zero to test, then what would we do for a test anyway.
Just my .20 cents.

Originally posted by Three_moons
It sure is perplexing and we're all just kicking ideas around based on limited information. The cause is still full of speculation but there's quite a few issues that make me think a meteorite was not the cause. I'll gladly retract my opinion if different information comes to light.

Gotta say that I agree with you. Even that pea-sized meteorite that hit the German teenager was accompanied by a bright streak of light, as was the Colombia meteorite. I would've expected similar reports from the San Francisco area. Except for the man driving home that I originally quoted, there really weren't any.

BTW, did you catch this?

The segment of pipe that blew out onto the street was 28 feet long, the explosion sent that piece of pipe about 100 feet and the blast created a crater 167 feet long and 26 feet wide, he said.

Three moons, you're a real truth-seeker. I appreciate your extensive research and apologize for any unpleasant remarks earlier in the thread.

I saw an interview of a guy who was in his garage and heard a low hum pass over his head, then complete silence, then the explosion...He said he swore it was a plane..The low hum is interesting tho.