The Catholic Church

Originally posted by arc
If anyone here saw the film Stigmata you might understand where I'm coming from....

Well, that's the problem. You are basing your beliefs about an
organization on a Hollywood fantasy film. Go to
www.catholicanswers.com... to get answers about the
Catholic church. Always go to the source for answers ... not
Hollywierd.

Quote: "increasing belief that Freemasonry and the Vatican are sworn enemies, with both claiming to hold the secrets and bloodlines of the true jerusalem church."

Yes - I agree. I have definitely noticed this Pattern! Jews & Protestants don't really seem to have a problem with FreeMasonry - its the Catholics that really seen to have a problem with it!!!

�Truth� - you are an American no? Well I am an American - I agree with the Philosophy that America stands for FREEDOM & LIBERTY. That means Freedom of Speech & Freedom of Religion! You have to acknowledge that there are MANY Religions in the World - NOT JUST ONE!!! In addition Individuals can interpret the
Judeo-Christian Scriptures in ANY NUMBER OF WAYS!!!

Will you please stop using "Satan" as an Excuse!!! Have you spoken with "Satan" recently? Do you have his Phone Number?

What you propose is nothing less than a Formula for Tyranny, Fascism & a New Inquisition!!! It is 2004 - the 21st Century - just get over it already!!! You can still practice Catholicism - but stop trying to push your Beliefs on everyone!!! STOP calling people "Satanists" - this is
Inflammatory Slander!!!


[edit on 19-10-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 21-10-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

It talks about this new imposter church the whore of babylon posing a the real catholic church.

this happened ca. 332 when the church @ rome sold out to Constantine, taking
on the pomp, ceremony, and riches known today, becomming the Roman Church. at this time they also changed the dates of their celebrations to coincide with those of the state religion. Christmas/ The birth of R. Yehoshua
changed from 6 jan to 25 dec to coincide with the birth of Novus Invictus, the resurection changed from passover to the pagan festival of Eoster (sp?) and of course changed the day of worship to " The Venerable Day of The Sun".

The orthodox are cut off from the church of christ, they deny the successor of peter who was promised to feed the sheep and lambs..

how do you succeed to something that didnt happen? Peter was never bishop of rome, the first "bishop of rome" was appointed by paul during
peters lifetime. (Linus?) ca. 600ad the bishop of rome took upon himself
the title of pope.

why did the church from 33 to 1054 have some (100s) of successors of peter, yet this is supposed to stop because of a dispute betwen east and west

The church founded by R. Yehoshua @ Jerusalem was never led by Peter. from
available documents it was led by James the brother of R. Yehoshua, possibly
jointly by James and Mary Magdalene. The church that was eventually established @ rome was led by the original heritic Paul/Saul and was constantly at odds with the true church.

I don't believe Masonry ever made a claim that it holds any Secrets

i could be wrong but I believe that if there were any secrets held they were from the foundations of the order and are related to the atrs and sciences
that today are no longer secrets. they were things that at that time needed
to be kept secret and or hidden in allegory and/or symbolism and protected from the persecution of the church.


as a final thought i would like to ask the same question as did Mark Twain,

"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"
Mark Twain

The Catholic church was created by the babylonian brotherhood, to massivley control ppl. Before banks, and media, thats how the illuminati operated, through relgion. Just look at the popes fish hat. That the symbol of nymrod, they own the cia, they own the water gate hotel. They own alota stuff. They operate exactly like any other mystery school/ mystery religion. In fact it is the biggest mystory school in the world. On the outside you have ur masses that you control. But then just like masonry or any other mystery school, the higher you go up the chain of command, the more you find out what the perpose of the group is really about. And like any other secret society, at the high lvl's, santinism is practiced. Thats why i was'nt really too suprized when a bunch of ppl started telling me they belived the anti-christ was going to be the next pope. The catholic church has done more dirt than you'll ever know. Thats not saying anything bad about the catholic ppl, because like any mystery school they have NO IDEA what really goes on in there group, and have no idea what the purpose or goals of the group is. They dont recive that knowlledge intil they r "iniated" into the mystery school.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
The church founded by R. Yehoshua @ Jerusalem was never led by Peter. from. The church that was eventually established @ rome was led by the original heritic Paul/Saul and was constantly at odds with the true church.

You have never read the early church documents, have you.
Rome definately was the center of the church. All eyes turned to
Rome for direction. Peter definately did lead the Church after
Jesus rose from the dead.

www.catholic.com...
Early Church documents

Peter was definately the head of the Church -
Scripture (if used as a historical document) shows this clearly.

Info from 'A Biblical Defense of Catholicism' by Dave Armstrong

1 - Peter alone is the Rock upon which Jesus builds His church
Matthew 16:18
2. - Peter alone is given the keys of the kingdom. Matthew 16:19
3 - Peter is individually given the power to bind and loose. Mat 16:19
4. - Peter's name occurs first in all lists of Apostles (Matt 10:2, Mark 3:16, Luke 6:14, Acts 1:13) Matthew even calls him the 'First' (10:2).
5. - Peter is almost always named first whenever he appears with anyone else.
6. - Peter alone among the Apostles receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (John 1:42; Matt 16:18)
7. - Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd afte rHimself (John 21:15-17) (Acts 20:28, 1 Pet 5:2)
8. - Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to 'Strengthen your brethren" (luke 22:32).
10.- Peter is first to confess Christ's Messiahship and divinity (Matt 16:16).
11. - Peter alone is told that he has reveived divine knowledge by special revelation (Matt. 16:17).
12.- Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.
13.- Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).
14.- Jesus uniquely associates himself and Peter in the miracle of the tribute-money (Matt 17:24-27)
15. - Christ teaches from Peter's boat and the miraculous catch of fish follows (Luke 5:1-11) perhaps a metaphore for the Pope as a "fisher of Men" (Matt 4:19)
16. - Peter was the first apostle to set out for and enter the empty tomb (Luke 14:12, John 20:6)
17. - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles (Mark 16:7).
18. - Peter leads the Apostles in fishing (John 21:2-3,11)
19. Peter alone casts himself into the sea to come to Jesus (John 21:7).
20. Peter's words are the first recorded and most important in the upper room before Pentecost (Acts 1:15-22).
21. Peter is the first person to speak after Pentecost and the first to
preach the gospel in the Church era (Acts 2:14-36).
23. Peter works the first miracle of the Church age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12).
24.- Peter utters the first anathema which is affirmed by God (ACts 5:2-11).
25. - Peter's shadow works miracles (Acts 5:15)
26. - Peter is the first after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40)
27. - Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6).
28. - Peter is the first to reveive the Gentiles, after a revelation from God (Acts 10:9-48)
29 - Peter instructs the other Apostles on the Catholicity (universality) fo the Church (Acts 11:5-17).
30. - Peter is the object of the first divine interposition on behalf of an individual in the Catholic Age (An angel delivers him from pirson: Acts 12:1-17).
31. - The whole Church (Strongly implied) offers earnest prayer for Peter when he is imprisoned (Acts 12:5).
32. - Peter opens and presides over the first council of Christianity and lays down principles afterward accepted by it (Acts 15:7-11).
33. - Paul distinguishes the Lord's post -Resurrection apearances to Peter from those to other apostles (1 Cor. 15:4-8). The two disciples on the road to Emmaus make the same distininction (Luke 24:34) in this instance mentioning only Peter (Simon), even though they themselves had just seen the risen Jesus within the previous hour (Luke 24.33)
34. - Peter is often spoken of as distinct among apostles (Mark 1:36, Luke 9:28, 32 Acts 2:37, 5:29, 1 Cor 9:5).
35. - Peter is often spokesman for the other Apostles, especially at Cclimactic moments (Mark 8:29; Matt. 18:21, Luke 9:5, 12:41, John 6:67).
36. - Peter's name is always the first listed of the "inner Circle" of the disciples (Peter, James, and John - Matt 17:1, 26:37, 40: Mark 5:37, 14:37).
37. - Peter is often the central figure relating to Jesus in dramatic gospel scenes, such as walking on the water (Matt 14:28-32; Luke 5:1 Mark 10:28; Matt 17:24)
38. - Peter is the first to recognize and refute heresy in Simon Magus (Acts 8:14-24).
39. - Peters name is mentioned more than all other disciples put together - 191 times.
40. - Peter's proclamation at Pentecost (Acts 2:14-41) contains a fully
authoritative interpretation of Scripture, a doctrinal decision, a disciplinary decree concerning members of the House of Israel (2:36) - an example of binding and loosing.
41. - Peter was the first "charismatic" having judged authoritatively the first instance of the gift of tongues as genuine (Acts 2:14-21).
42. - Peter is the first to preach Christian repentance and Baptism (Acts 2:38).
43. - Peter (presumably) leads the first recorded mass Baptism (Acts 2:41).
44. - Peter commanded the first Gentile Christians to be baptized (Acts 10:44-48).
45. - Peter Paul went to Jerusalem specifically to see Peter for fifteen days in the beginning of his ministry (Gal 1:18) and was commissioned by Peter, James, and John (Gal. 2:9) to preach to the Gentiles.
46 - Peter acts, by strong implication, as the chief bishop/shepherd of the Church (1 Pet 5:1) since he exhorts all the other bishops or elders.
47. - Peter interprets prophecy (2 Pet 1:16-21).
48. - Peter corrects those who misuse Paul's writings (2 Pet 3:15-16)





[edit on 10/20/2004 by FlyersFan]

i would expect a catholic to use the passages they ( they church) wrote for this.
i would however have expected you to have avoided one of the most well
known instances of the gospels being at odds with each other. I direct your attention to Matt. 28 1-8 which begins,
In the end of the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary(Salome?) to see the sepulchre.
and ends with,
and did run to bring his disciples word.
In Mark 16: 9-11 it begins,
9. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, and concludes,
and they when they had heard that he was alive,and had been seen of her
believed not. ( that makes what 4 times so far for Peter?)

In Luke we have the following
Luke 24: 1 - 10 beginning in verse 1
Now upon the first day of the week very early in the morning, they came unto
the sepulchre bringing spices which they prepared, ...
and continues to verses 9 & 10 where we find,
9. and returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven
and to all the rest.
10. It was Mary Magdalene,and Johanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

in Luke we find John 20: 1- 18 again Mary is the first at the tomb, finds it open and runs and meets Peter and the other disiple "whom Jesus loved".
they return to the tomb ( Peter taking up the rear). Peter and The other disiple look into the tomb see the various grave clothes, then enter the tomb
" then the disciples went away again unto their home." ( V. 5- 10 leaving with out seeing anything but an empty hole) .
in V. 12 - 17 relate the meeting and conversation of Mary Magdalene and Jesus. V 18 concludes
Mary Magdalene came and toldthe disciples that she had seen the lord
and that he had spoken these things unto her.

so in all four of the gospels we have the infallibility of 'Gods word" putting the lie to the church faery tale that peter was the first to see the " risen lord",
in fact peter was in proximity of the first viewing only once and in all instances he and the disiples had to be told of the occurance.
it is very instructive to me at least that according to the "infallible word" the
risen lord chose to appear first to th women and in all accounts Mary Magdalene, and NOT to the one on whom he was supposedly going to build his church ( and who had denied him at least 4 times with friends like that?).
Then again maybe he did first appear to the person on whom he built His church.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by stalkingwolf]

Quote: "The Catholic Church was created by the Babylonian Brotherhood, to massivley CONTROL People. Before Banks and Media - thats how the Illuminati operated - through Religion".

YEP and it is still going on today! They use a Combination of all 3 now! I Feel Sorry for people that actually Believe that the Church & the Government & the Corporations are actually on their side!!!

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Then again maybe he did first appear to the person on whom he built His church.

Jesus told Mary Magdellen not to touch Him when she saw Him
in the garden. However, He invited the apostles in the Upper
Room to touch him. If Mary Madgellen was the leader of the
church (in a society that ignored women???) then Jesus sure
wasn't overly friendly to the leader of His church.

Wolf,
The Catholic Church didn't write the NT, get your facts straight.

given that Diocletian (sp?) ordered all christian writings destroyed and the council picked and chose those included and rewrote them from memory and
even prior to that bishops had censored the existing ones i think that would
qualify as " the church writing them."

Originally posted by Cearbhall
The Catholic Church didn't write the NT

The Catholic Church came together in council and
decided which books were to be included in the
bible and which were not. This was ~ 300 A.D.

It was 1200+ years later that Martin Luther tossed
some out and rearranged others. There is a very
good book on Martin Luther - It's called -
The Facts About Luther ISBN -0-89555-322-8.
In this book it details what Martin Luther did to the
bible, after it had stood for 1200+ years without
change. It also details what he else he wanted
to do to the bible, but his advisors around him
didn't let him. Astounding book! Very well documented.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
ordered all christian writings destroyed
and the council ... rewrote them from memory

You are assuming too much. Christian writing MAY have
been ordered destroyed, but that doesn't mean that it
happened. There were many, many copies of the documents
all over the known world. To state that the council
'rewrote them from memory' is an astounding leap to make.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

as a final thought i would like to ask the same question as did Mark Twain,

"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?"
Mark Twain

Errmm i think this guy just go my last vote for the twain quote.

Man that Twain guy... american you say... hmmm... [/

Need to look into him more...

No wolf you said they "wrote" the NT, you were wrong. Yes by guidance of the HS the Church did decide which books were to be included in the Bible.

arc there is one thing in the bible that is overlooked ALOT and when i read your post it really hit me.

there are many many MYSTERIES surrounding God...the bible states that it is PART of Gods glory to conceal certain things and it is the glory of Kings to search out his truth.

one of the great mysteries is the TRUE CHURCHS ....(please note CHURCHS not CHURCH)..revelations speaks of 7 churchs with 7 angels.....this is a MYSTERY.

when you dropped it casually that both rome and masonry claim lineage to the true church of jersulaem, it is actually a bombshell. only thing to remeber is that by the fruit of both (masonry and rome) neither can be seen as true.

I know alot about both Rome and Masonry from the internet, my conclusion as harsh as it may sound is that rome has way to much blood on its hands to even be called a church of the prince of peace and that masonry has to much deception and war on its hands to be named as a follower of the good shepard.

finally i dont think bloodlines mean anything, from my relationship with jesus christ (yes you can have a relationship with a living person ) he didnt have children, if he did it would not have been unlawful but our Father in heaven would not have left that out of the gospels for some secret societies to claim the knowledge and then discredit His word.

So whats my point? Salvation is not an equation, it is SIMPLE....faith via GRACE. thats it. doesnt matter what your lineage is.

AS for Rome....well Truth you can say what you want about Vatican II, but 99% of the BLOOD on romes hands is not in the last 35yrs!

The Dark Ages ??? Who ruled the world then?? Wasnt it ROME?? Why is it called the DARK AGES?? The word of God (BIBLE) is a LAMP but if the church locks up the word, makes mass in a foreign language then darkness is everywhere, isnt it?

Thats what the church did WAY back then.....it locked up the very word of God, and made mass in a language only 5% of the population could understand.

Rome has killed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of SAINTS. the nazi holocaust was bad but how many enquisitions where there?? over how many years??

whats ROME always coverted??? whats ONE thing she cannot get her hands on?? think about it please. what just doesnt make sense about rome being the true church?? why isnt it in jersuleam??? thats the one city rome has been after for more than a thousand yrs, what were the CRUSADES about??

Rome = too much blood
Masons= too much deception.

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
one of the great mysteries is the TRUE CHURCHS ....(please note CHURCHS not CHURCH)..revelations speaks of 7 churchs with 7 angels.....this is a MYSTERY.

Isn't seven used as a symbol of perfection? I thought I read
somewhere that the number 7 was used metaphorically as
perfection and that the number 6 was used metaphorically
as 'less than perfect'. The anti-christ and 666 is a symbol
of less than perfect... that sort of thing.

I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't remember
where.