How long should unemployment benefits last?

In the USA foodstamps are not permitted to be used for nicotine or alchohol...and again you are extrapolating personal stories to the scale of entire nations populations. I would rather consider researched evidence.

naivety at its best.........

yes indeed they can be, and they are used to do just that very very often......its simple you see, they trade the food stamps , they buy people food, the people buy them alcohol and smokes.....

Try and tell me that doesnt happen, Ive worked with Health and Welfare for years........they also use them to buy drugs......

The problem isnt that we need to extend unemployment benefits, the problem is that we need to fix the job market........

[edit on 7-9-2010 by ManBehindTheMask]

reply to post by black cat


Indefinitely. To your title question.

Oh yeah. Hey, if the government can just print up 20+ trillion bucks and put it into the American taxpayer's inflationary bill, why not just have unemployment forever. Hey, as long as you are looking for work.

Like George Costanza liked to say, he interviewed with Vandelay Industries, they are in latex by the way.

Originally posted by The Wave
Hi

Fine - best of luck with your 'research'. You are obviously so right!

Peace!

Thank you. I find "research", "facts", etc. very helpful when forming an opinion. Best of luck with extrapolating the micro-biological insights expounded in the "selfish gene" to society at large.

Unemployment shares the same problems as social security. I "put" into the system for almost 20yrs, only 1 laps of employment in that 20yrs(about 1 month). Never before did I use unemployment until this past year. I got hurt on the job limiting my capabilities to do my job 100%. Even though I got hurt on the job I never missed a day while working light duty, I showed up and did what I could do to keep turning a profit for my company at a reduced rate none the less. 5 months of light duty and I was terminated from my position, although they claimed my position was no longer needed 1 day after my termination some how the position opened back up?? So facing the fact that I could no longer do skilled labor hands on work I tried to find something I could do and work within my disability. Over the course of the last year my condition has grown worse and now face almost non stop pain. Then I get denied for social security because of my management work skills, according to them I could work management little do they know what that means in the real world. So I guess your damned if you do damned if you don't. I get quite a laugh seeing obese/alcoholic/drug users in my neighborhood collect social security and they claim that they have never worked a full day in their life, yet someone who pays into it for almost 20yrs gets denied because I still have a pulse and can bath myself!!! So if I ever come across as just plain old fed up and grouchy I am truly sorry and I apologize in advance, sometimes my bitterness transfers to some of the topics here on ATS. Unemployment should be based on what you put in, star & flag OP.

Originally posted by rival
The problem with the unemployment system is WHO gets taxed to pay
for it. We, amongst ourselves, pay for it. If the corporate giants who have
been allowed to outsource jobs from this country funded the system, we
wouldn't even be having this discussion.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that employers aren't taxed to pay for the unemployment system. Granted I only know this for the state of Maryland and don't have time to research it for other states at the moment.

In the state of Maryland, those that pay unemployment insurance are the EMPLOYERS, not the employees. The rate paid is based on the company's history of unemployment claims. So if the company has a long history of layoffs and firings then they pay a much higher rate.

The employer pays taxes on the first $8,500 of wages paid to an employee in a calendar year. Again, this is in Maryland. Here's a link to the state's FAQ page for employers: MD Employers' FAQ

Depending on the company, the public may very well be the ultimate payor with the cost of the tax being calculated into what the company charges it's customers. I say depending on the company because there are companies that don't have a mechanism to pass on that cost.

The one example I can think of is an insurance agent. Generally speaking, an insurance agent is paid a commission by the insurance company and can't add their own fees to cover their business expenses. Those expenses have to come out of the commissions they earn. But a store could certainly increase what they charge for goods sold.

reply to post by jaynkeel


A friend of mine is on social security disability. She really had to jump through hoops to get it too. According to her attorney, you need to keep pushing. The attorney said most people have to go through three appeals before they receive it. Don't give up, keep pushing. It's the only way to overcome the government bureaucracy.

Unemployment benefits are a necessary evil at this point in the game folks like it or not. If they stop so does the economy.


How many families are barely holding on with it? 10 million? Now stop the payments what happens? They lose everything. This is not a bailout that the money goes to some account we never see this is for food and shelter.




If they stop the payment mark my words the nation will fall at even a faster rate. This has implications that spread to employed people as well.

I'm currently benefiting from unemployment insurance and about to come to the end of the my "standard" time. There are currently 3 extensions available to me if i happen to remain unemployed longer but I can say that I am doing all I can to make sure I get employed as soon as I can.

Here, in Oklahoma, both employees and employers pay into the Unemployment fund and a person can be denied benefits for a number of reasons. Basically, you have to have lost your job "through no fault of your own'. Thus, if you quite or get fired for cause, you can't get benefits. I was laid off during downsizing, so I qualified.

The question of "how long should a person receive benefits" is one that I've thought quite a bit about. The best answer that I can come up with is "no longer than the average time it takes to get a comparable job". I don't feel that benefits should last an outrageous amount of time and I believe that the current three extensions is a bit much.

First thing to note is where Unemployment Insurance is derived from. The businesses of the United States, or those that pay taxes unto the Central Government [and States] are the bread winners for the program. It is a misconception that individual tax payers pay for unemployment "benefits".

Since it is bed time, I cannot expound upon this more at the moment. But felt that understanding where the "benefit" comes from is important in the discussion.

ETA: that states are involved too in the receiving of taxes from business for the program.

[edit on 8-9-2010 by ownbestenemy]

Originally posted by soontide
Here, in Oklahoma, both employees and employers pay into the Unemployment fund ...

Really?

Who pays the Unemployment Benefit Compensation Tax?

Oklahoma employers and nonprofit organizations (other than those described in Section 501 (c) (3) of the IRS Code) pay the tax if they employ one or more workers in each of twenty different calendar weeks during a calendar year or if they have a payroll of $1,500.00 in a calendar quarter or are liable under the Federal Unemployment Tax Act.

I do not see where employees pay into the system...

SOURCE

reply to post by Subjective Truth


How does the economy stop? Where do you get your logic in such a notion?

What we would see is the market begin to regulate itself to a point in which employment can again rise.

As of current, unemployment remains high because we are propping up an unsustainable economy. Deflation is natural, just as much as a boom period is. It is the flux that we see at the micro level. Reason we see it at smaller levels is because we don't have the know-it-all Fed and Central Government reaching their grubby hands into the pot.

If we allow the system to regulate itself, which would bring about uncomfortable pain, it would be a hell of a lot quicker than the path we are taking now.

We are trying to uphold inflated prices, crappy policies, unsustainable long term projects, stupidly low (read non-existent) interest rates, etc, etc...YET we continue to do it...why?

Originally posted by jaynkeel
I "put" into the system for almost 20yrs....

No your employers 'put' into the system, not you. The monies received via unemployment are all generated through taxes upon employers NOT the employees.

Now, some states might have a supplemental tax, but most likely not.

Currently, employers pay federal unemployment taxes of 6.2 percent on the first $7,000 earned by each of their employees during a calendar year. ...

The state UC tax rate paid by employers is based on the state's current unemployment rate. ...

Source

You, as an employee do not pay into unemployment.

reply to post by black cat

Explanation: S&F! I encourage my fellow members to do likewise!

1stly Awesome question!

Direct simple answer is that if ones civilization and society don't, won't and or can't fully garantee the welfare of all of its civillians [regardless of citizen status: i.e vote, go to war, work etc] then it's clearly A EPIC AND TRAGIC FAIL and definately doesn't deserve ones support in the slightest as it's definately not supporting you!

Personal Disclosure: Society should benefit everyone in it all the time or its not civilized at all as the thin veneer has clearly cracked assunder revealing the savage beast below.

~ as long as it takes for the former employee's take home to match the take-home pay of the CEO , who fired them ~



see, the elite Exec's & CEOs, take home $$ is up to 4ooX the pay of the average line worker,
so, you see they have no compassion --- they view those industrial workers like ants or bees, just there to work slavishly for subsistance money & little to no benefits or pensions.


this pay proposal should be applied to All the unemployed,
whether they were released from a DOW Corporation or just a local lawn maintenance job... wages are insured up to 4ooX or simpily 400 weeks


the corporations & businesses that have released or fired anyone should keep paying into unemployment insurance premiums for as long as the operation is 'downsized' (just so the Corps. cannot get around the additional payments by "downsizing or restructuring"... or for the Average of 400 weeks!

all the Corps that outsource or send jobs overseas should pay the unemployment premiums on those jobs... because it was a voluntry displacement of workers for retaining greater profits...

we have one huge welfare class in america now....
many of those who are unemployed.....ummm....where do you think they'd be getting their food, housing, ect. from if they didn't have the unemployment?? heck some are getting the unemployment and food stamps now....

Admit it you scammers. You could work but you get free money. It is my money you are spending on chips and TV watching. I will never take unemployment. It is wrong. To let the government keep part of your money and give it back during hard times is just silly. You keep the money and get your hands off of mine!

Originally posted by earthdude
Admit it you scammers. You could work but you get free money. It is my money you are spending on chips and TV watching. I will never take unemployment. It is wrong. To let the government keep part of your money and give it back during hard times is just silly. You keep the money and get your hands off of mine!

Wow...

Let's see if you have the same attitude when you're unemployed for months on end and facing homelessness and starvation.

It can happen to just about anyone, so long as he/she is not one of the elites.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


Really both of your statements (meaning who you responded to) show the extreme of both sides. While retaining a somewhat valid point in regards to the debate.

What we see are people who may have been brought up in a different manner. On one side there are prudent, frugal, responsible people that aim to make sure during hard times they are covered for a certain period. Ask any financial advisor and they will tell you to maintain an emergency fund just for that. These are the people that did not overextend themselves in regards to toys and the extras of life.

On the other hand, there are those that live paycheck to paycheck, but have fallen into the pit of overextention by buying a bunch of toys and having the extras in life when they couldn't afford such in the first place, only the perceived notion that they could at the moment.

So I would amend his argument as such: Why should responsible people, who are the customers of businesses (who are the principle tax payers into the unemployment insurance programs) be saddled with extension after extension of these 'benefits', which will either hinder economic growth or drive some businesses out because they have to cover additional taxes on top of the ones they already pay into?

Your argument could be adjusted to state that we need less government and more community, as was nearly intended in this country. For the private peoples of your community to rise to the challenge and trod through tough times. Churches and private charities have always and will always out pace Government programs in the help they provide to society.

No one likes to see others go homeless or hungry, but there are multitudes of help out there besides the Government, which shouldn't be their job in the first place. If you think so, then you fail to see their track record in regards to every social program they have engaged in and how much of a failure (well, success in buying votes) they are or have become.

At some point, since the initial insurance payments were funded by the taxes gathered by both States and Feds has run out, the general populace will begin to get the brunt of more and more extensions. At what point, as the OP has stated, should it stop? Do we perpetually fund people that cannot find work? At what point do those people adjust their lifestyles in accordance to the never ending free money and just live off that, giving up looking for a job?

Look I know someone right now who says they will be getting unemployment for 2 years, & has a spouse that makes 34 dollars a hour.

That is wrong. Get a job. 6 to 8 months is more than enough time for you to find a job...any job. Economy is tight right now so it doesn't have to be some high ranking position...

Originally posted by packinupngoin
Look I know someone right now who says they will be getting unemployment for 2 years, & has a spouse that makes 34 dollars a hour.

That is wrong. Get a job. 6 to 8 months is more than enough time for you to find a job...any job. Economy is tight right now so it doesn't have to be some high ranking position...

I've been unemployed without regular work for over two years now and applied everywhere. Around here you have thousands of applicants per one minimum wage job opening. A lot of people are not picky about where they work. They just want a job and cannot get hired.