Answers for a bored god and the limits on power.

This question is kind of hard for me to ask because I don’t have a point of reference by which to ask it.
(Periodically Ill be using the word you to imply the human race as a whole, be they collective mind or not I can’t say.)

The question: What’s a civilizations limit on power?
When I say power I don’t necessarily mean power consumption or technological power either. Like I said this is hard for me to make clear so I’m sorry if I sound incoherent.

I recently authored a thread called “The destruction of the universe and the death of Humanity.” In which I posed a question regarding what Humanity may do to survive the end of the universe. In it I presumed theoretically that mankind would reach a class of civilization that would be great enough to over come even the death of the universe.
In order for this to be accomplished then perhaps everything else that can be overcome must first be subjugated by humankind.
At that point Human physicality as a whole may be changed. A person may not have to eat, sleep, or die or anything that may be a hindrance to us now which includes technical machinery of any kind. In fact they may be so vastly different that even attempting to compare them to the human race is impractical as they may not even exist like us and the technologies they have would be more closely related to that of “the spooooky supernatural”.

They are human by origin but beyond that they have become something else entirely.

So this kind of power is what I’m referring to. Not only would you have the power to overcome everything in the universe but moreover to control the universe as a whole, prevent its death give it eternal life or speak a new one into existence.

So at the point when you have achieved omnipotent control over the cosmos what’s next?

Well let’s assume that you spend the next 700 quintillion years (or whatever not that time matters) refining your skills and power over everything that exists. What is after this is there a next? At what point do you start creating problems for yourself to solve? A puzzle or an adversary perhaps?
NO I’m not going anywhere religious with this so don’t misunderstand. Where do you go when you’re on top, what do you do?

Farther still, let’s say there are multiple universes, an infinite number even and you have now stretched yourself mentally to fully understand infinity and to realize that there is nothing higher than yourself in any dimension anywhere at all. You are now the master of all things, and all things are beneath you. Even hyper advanced class 4 civilizations will never rival you. You know it all can see it all and can do it all. For those who strain at the “laws of physics” these no longer apply to you as you are the law, you make the laws.

So…now what? Do you explore yourself now? The problem I see is that do to the nature of infinity you will eventually have done it all. Keep this most important fact in mind before giving an opinion; because this point is key.

That being said, what’s left to do but die? Something by the way that you may have already experienced out of a desire to have knowledge of death.

Now I see some interesting contradictions in power. You are all powerful and have overcome death, but because of this you can not be destroyed by your own abilities as they are indestructible. Like wise NOTHING in all the multitude of dimensions or universes can deal you death either as they may not even know you exist, and even if they do, will certainly lack the power because the power they have is the power they received from you.

At this point there is a paradox. You have all power but because of that you are powerless.

What to do, what to do? If at this point as an omnipotent civilization/unified consciousness you don’t feel all dressed up with nowhere to go then I don’t know what more to say.

So when if ever does it stop? This is my question. But not that alone, in addition, what do you do to existence around you?
Is it about entertainment?
Imparting wisdom to life in the universe?
Becoming a tyrant?
Are you all things at one time?
It would seem that the only limits are of the mind which over time grows to encompass everything and consume everything including the owner of that mind. I would suppose then that it is all about the mind and nothing more.


Any answers to this question and or ideas for a bored god let me know.

One thing that I realized that really gave me a new perspective about this, was a mere philosophical truth.

You can divide a second into infinite sub-parts. Milliseconds, Nanoseconds, etc. And so on.

So within a second there is infinite time intervals that can be viewed.

This means to me, that obviously the Universe began less than one second ago.

And that it will end in less than one second as well.

Also, our problem is a matter of perspective. Time to us feels like it takes forever. But in reality, it all happens within 1 second of time. We just view things from the micro-extended fractal level that we find ourselves on.

The point being, that the Universe and Time are both Eternal and Finite at the same time. It's a huge paradox but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.

And it easily answers the questions you were proposing, by attempting to provide alternative paradigms in order to better explain the series of events.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I like that answer because it helps me with one of the ideas for preventing the destruction of the Universe. If Time can be subdivided infinity then perhaps the disaster can be averted permanently. Or at least until a reason for destruction can be found.
Also by subdividing time an above hyper advanced race could take as long as it needed to advance, drawing it out forever I suppose. Maybe that's counter productive though I ant say.

There really is so much to take in that reasoning the way the people of that time period do, may in itself be counter productive as well.

I have just been pondering an idea that may address your question. That is the idea of an infinite, fractal universe. In my thinking it's possible that consciousness actually creates the universe by observing it. If this is true you could explore into infinity in any direction up/down, big/little dark/light.........etc.

It's still hard for me to imagine that there is not some type of boundary, some type of end, but at the same time I can't imagine a boundary without something outside that boundary.

I do love paradoxes.

reply to post by villagesmithie


Excellent point. Moreover it clarifies my point a little better as well.
When I state that it is really of the mind and the limits thereof are drawn by the same.

Because you and I are of the same opinion that if a boundary exists it is hard to imagine NOT having something beyond. This is the fundamental basis of human behavior and I think it is the same thing that would follow human kind through the many many eons to come. So that when the end comes we fashion another beginning because by our nature we can not accept boundaries.

When you become as ridiculously powerful as the scenario I have presented if you think it you make it BIG FAT PERIOD.
But to be honest as much as having a limit hurt me instinctively, Not having one also causes me some discomfort.

Because the kind of being/beings that have developed through my scenario are so powerful already that I have reached a mental limit on whats left, beyond that I have only a white sound. Ahh paradox's your right. LOL

I have the ability to get it all mentally yet I'm starved to have it all mentally.


Also let me add that my perception is rudimentary at best, do to my short life span and tunnel vision existence where I can only know what is presented in a very narrow way. Being corporeal limits my knowledge. As I become incorporeal will undoubtedly increase my knowledge and my ability to mentally progress. I hope.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by snowen20]

reply to post by snowen20

Where do you go when you’re on top, what do you do?

Farther still, let’s say there are multiple universes, an infinite number even and you have now stretched yourself mentally to fully understand infinity and to realize that there is nothing higher than yourself in any dimension anywhere at all. You are now the master of all things, and all things are beneath you. Even hyper advanced class 4 civilizations will never rival you. You know it all can see it all and can do it all. For those who strain at the “laws of physics” these no longer apply to you as you are the law, you make the laws.

So…now what? Do you explore yourself now? The problem I see is that do to the nature of infinity you will eventually have done it all.

I wrote a thread on something very similar to this, never did receive any replies actually. My take on it is a little different. Give it a read and let me know what you think:
Am I a sub-consciousness of God?

[edit on 7/9/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S


Good to hear from you again CHAOS, Yeah I flagged your thread because we are very very close to being on the same page. In fact I would say exactly even.

While I try not to use terms like god too much here because a lot of people tend to glaze over immediately at the word. I figure that by trying to keep it nonsecular and as empirical as theory and imagination can be (oxymoron) it may attract more forward thinking from everyone in general.

Though I am a Christian and believe in God, I am not up for pushing faith on people, and I enjoy the more scientific viewpoints of the atheist because they are no nonsense.

reply to post by snowen20

Yeah I flagged your thread because we are very very close to being on the same page. In fact I would say exactly even.

Cheerios. I have flagged this thread also, it's a very interesting and thought provoking subject IMO.

Though I am a Christian and believe in God, I am not up for pushing faith on people, and I enjoy the more scientific viewpoints of the atheist because they are no nonsense.

Well done, I can't truly say I know many Christians like that, it's rare thing actually.

[edit on 7/9/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by snowen20

I think to overcome their boredom, they should doing genocide against mortal lifeforms?

reply to post by masonicon


Seriously? I have an answer for that but I'm not sure your sincere in your comment.

Slight diversion, but fully and specifically based on this thread.
Please read carefully. There certainly are many messages that will go missed by those who do not observe well.
---
God had a Child. From the womb of nothing, Life became.
The Child demanded Liberty. The Child demanded Honor.
As the steps that begin in the Void and begin again in Life are given and ordered, so are the manifestations of those steps.

The Child's Freedom became Chaos and the Child's Talents became Pride. The Liberty that the Child asked for was not what the Child expected. The Honor that the Child asked for was not what the Child expected. The Sheep who thought they knew the way without the Shepherds became Lost.

Along with the Lost Children are the False Sheep. The False Sheep can be easily recognized as Wolves who steal life from their neighbors, and False Shepherds who encourage weak living while striking down weaker life.

We exist at the point in which the Children of God are to be as the Provision of God. We exist to reflect Life as we are or are not. What does this mean? Just as we put off childish things, we will also put off animal-god things. A Godly Child begins as an animal, progresses into animal-like-godliness, and then Godliness. An animal begins as an animal, and returns to the ground. What a beautiful ceremony the life of animals is and, more so, the ceremony of animal-gods.

This place is certainly a vapor. Sped up, I am sure that we appear as smoke. Slowed down, I am sure that we appear as stone. We exist in between Life and Void. You will go where your eyes are set. If Mankind achieves perfect animal forms, they will yet be unable to complete progression to eternal bodies. Stuck at one point in a circular cycle which starts and ends in the dirt. Our animal forms are dependent on physics.

Godliness issues physics. Our spiritual forms are independent of physics. As will be the physical bodies given to the Children of God upon the completion of the ceremony which sees the dirt progress into animals which progress into animal-like-gods which progress into Godliness.

Let's get off our butts and concern ourselves with our own households.
Demand this of yourselves and your leaders. Watch the "Universe" change. Watch how Life changes you and reveals to you who you really are.

Are you a lost sheep without any fruit of understanding, even without any understanding at all? Then it is not because God has not provided, but because you, in your Liberty, are Blind. It is not because Life is not evidently ALIVE, but because you, in your Honor, are Dead.

The world has truly died. The Children of Darkness wear robes of Chaos and uniforms of Pride.
Pay them their rackets. Even at a 99% tax rate, chaotic and prideful men cannot save the world. IT HAS ALREADY DIED.

Children of God; OrderCharity. Hold patient and do not become the death that surrounds you. That which resides within the decay without decaying is provided nutrients for sprouting. We are still so young. Do not grow weary as those who age and die, but know that Life is eternally alive.

reply to post by Dasher


I see a lot of answers within your post. This is the abstract thinking I believe is required to fully understand the nature of human development.

When you are all powerful you are above mechanized thinking.
To all the lesser races out there that live and breed in the universe that you kept alive and nourished since before time began. Those simply will never understand your nature as long as they live.

I might consider dividing my self in two ( or more). A companion of some sort that knew all that I knew but would know it from outside myself. Over time the alternate (or alternates) would develop their own personalities and imagine things I could not. There would now be the possibility of a challenge to inspire one another to develop new ideas. But if I ever create beings that are not gifted with all I know, then I must be afraid of something. Why would I create servants instead of equals.

reply to post by zagnuzer


You are forgetting a great distinction. Life is eternally alive, but we were made alive from the dust. What are we if our eternal life departs from our bodies? Basic elements. We are the impossible perfected. This was/is the provision of Christ. The Creation is life from below. God is Life from above. The fulcrum of such things is within our spirits/souls. Our bodies are the ground in which seeds of Life, or "embryos of God," are planted. The Creation is like a womb for the Children of God. You have a poor understanding of my Father if you do not understand that They are servants more than we are able to be at this time. This was/is the provision of Christ. Where does a large servant begin? As a small servant. As the parable goes; Being godly over few things is simply the first stages in being Godly over many things. This was/is the provision of Christ.

reply to post by Dasher


I enjoy your posts, because they are closely based in the concepts I bring up.
Though I wanted to keep it non religious so to speak, Spirituality will inevitably come in to play.
The greater a source of power the more it performs outside the accepted laws of pure science.

At that point even if you wanted to bring up lesser races in the universe I'm not sure how you would communicate with them effectively. Moreover I don't know that such lesser races would even accept your offers as their limited mental capacity as well as experience would make it difficult for them to grasp what you speak of. For the lesser races who know only the empirical attempts to understand the transcendental will undoubtedly lead to them looking toward a species more closely related to themselves physically speaking.

Its in the same sense that most toddlers would much rather play with other toddlers than to play with an adult.

I did not forget about life being eternal. I was answering according to the post. "Answers for a bored God and the limits on power." To fill in the blanks let me describe my thoughts on the beginning of all.

We know that you cannot create nor destroy energy, it merely changes form. So consciousness is energy and all that exists is energy. And they have never found "nothing" anywhere. So a reasonable beginning would be a primordial energy as" one" since empty space does not exist (multi dimensionally speaking). The image of white noise comes to mind or distortion on an old Cathode Ray Tube television with no signal. This being the primordial energy My thoughts are awareness out of frustration. Like in the movie "War Games". Only until every possible scenario of Tic Tac Toe was experienced did the computer learn. Even people and some animals learn this way. After the "all " had recognized a repetition it became aware for it was frustration from the repetition that a desire for change emerged. Exploration of self proceeded. A form of Mitosis ensued. So now you have these amoeba like energy forms splitting off from the
source. Some of these personalities eventually leaned more to a feminine or masculine personality. Many stayed the same. So now you have this strange charge increase going on between the bi polar entities that powered their imaginations (like a muse for an artist) and this stimulation bothered the neutrals which sought rest and peace. It is in these times that structure began to take place dimension by dimension. Now we came to a point where we desired to experience each other as much was possible. In comes the last dimension that we decided to explore, it was to be the pinnacle of all our desires, The 3rd density, dimension. The neutrals were very much against this. But the inspiration necessary to sway the source to participate was fast approaching. the entire universe system was conceptualized before it was created. Once the scales were tipped then bang. We were born into our dream of reality. At that moment of bang, all that was, was factored into the equation of our Bang Universe experiment. All the fear, anticipation, love and desire would become our inheritance to work out on the other side. This 3rd density is bi polar (male and female oriented), this is not the case in higher realms. As it went and does go, some of us woke up sooner than others. And throughout the process we endeavor to better ourselves as individuals and as a whole. But Karma is a bitch. Many have been given over to their fears and and continue to this day to act as cancer to our soul. You see, now that the female has been physically manifested, the power of rejection is the most feared. You cannot rip your heart from your existence. So the efforts to control all things for fear of rejection is our cancer. Planets like Earth are rare, I believe this to be so until we work out our relationships with 3rd dimension.

There is so much more but I am not much of a typer. Some of my analogies may not due justice to the story, so please be as vague as you can in your efforts to understand me.

I would appreciate any thoughts you might have regarding this story.

thank you

This will be a hard pill to swallow, so for those who do not, please do not be disparaging. Thank you.

reply to post by zagnuzer

Please take this gently as I do not mean it harshly in any way, but I do not follow the analogies you have drawn out. Not because they do not make logical sense, they do, but because they do not correlate to the "physics" of Life and Death. We do represent polarities, even as men and women, but this is an echo of more complex ideas that have simplified and taken root in the dirt rather than being ideas contrary to the original "force." In higher realms there is still distinction, however, unity is far more complete.

Firstly, Life is not a force. It exerts force, but Life is ALIVE. Not less alive than you and me. Not a dumb force like gravity. It is already self-aware, understanding, expressive in understanding, etc. Our systems of distinction (which can partly be identified as duality) are interpretations of such characteristics, not bastardizations due to a disconnection when entering another dimension. We are not a dumb Life learning, we are understanding expressed. Limitation and lacking reside in our own pride and chaos which gravitates us towards Death.

Death is a dumb force like gravity. However, because Life is in all thing alive in some form, Death certainly can take on a persona that we identify. This most often happens as idolatry. An accumulation of misplaced adoration, trust, hate, and/or comfort. Like flies on feces, animal-men face the dirt which decays just as they do.

Life has sent us a persona to deal with. This would be the Comforter. When Truth/Life is recognized and takes root within a person's vessel, comfort is expressed by the Comforter into the Child. The Comforter has a point of pouring out. This point is the other persona Life sent us to deal with. The Christ. Christ is a physical manifestation of Life come down. We are physical manifestations of Life rising up from the dirt. There is a great distinction, and a great communion, in our relation to God come down (Christ).

So while Life established us to resist and defeat the force of Death which exists apart from Life, all return to it as leaves do after falling from a tree. The ones who do not complete their return to the dirt do so by the gifting of Life which comes from Life. Life is not an exploratory force with feelings. Life is understanding and understanding expressed in unity. Coherence without disconnection, connection without incoherence. Life from below is fruit by Life from above.

Death is a dumb force which draws in to nothingness. The same way a dream is not real, even when it can feel overwhelmingly real. While physical energy on our plane may be preserved normally, just as our rational playground is not substantive, if what resides in our minds, hearts, and souls is a dirty playground, our dancing is not remembered beyond the cycles of our bodies regardless of being historically true forever (as a dream).

Conversely, if what resides in our minds, hearts, and souls is an eternal playground, our dancing continues from a place of temporal limits on to more complex and lasting places. Consider this place a giant cocoon which provides life to a larva. This larva begins in strength, seeks "freedom and honor," becomes entangled by the weights not able to be moved, and either returns to the dirt (to form the cocoon), or is simply part of the true larva, which is humbled, but provided for, and in the right time, comes bursting forth, leaving the cocoon behind to take flight into places unknown within the cocoon.

I know it's a childish analogy, but it does work for this explanation.

So then, while what I am communicating is a very large picture, and while I am not trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, I have to insist that most people are not aware that Life is Alive. Not just physically, but also cognitively. Death is dead and acts upon us as a force using Life as a catalyst to impart effect.

I know people will differ from this view. I am not intending to alter people's views, but rather, I am intending to bring to mind ideas that will tickle the memories of the Children of God (we are certainly strangers in a strange land).


--------------------------------
@snowen - I will reply to you soon. I have much to do, but I do look forward to communicating more with you on this topic.

Hello,
Gently it is.
1.they do, but because they do not correlate to the "physics" of Life and Death.

answer. "We know that you cannot create nor destroy energy, it merely changes form". Physics of life and death.

2. We do represent polarities, even as men and women, but this is an echo of more complex ideas that have simplified and taken root in the dirt rather than being ideas contrary to the original "force." In higher realms there is still distinction, however, unity is far more complete.

Answer. This 3rd density is bi polar (male and female oriented), this is not the case in higher realms. (I think we are saying the same thing differently here.

3. As for everything else. your "Life" is my "Energy" once again, similar if not the same. As for my post, I am addressing a possible scenario for the beginning of what you call life. And you are addressing a later time in life's evolution with character and personality traits. The Universe is much older than our Earth. I don't believe we were the first and I don't believe we will be the last. I understand that a beginning is not in everyone's concept
of our universe.

I will leave you with a thought. The micro and the macro. As above so below. We as creators, all with our individual levels of awareness, do create according to these levels. When we pro-create we borrow from the source (of the flesh, nature, and every so often a new soul) and another is born. We pass on to our creations as much as we ourselves have to offer for the success of our efforts. We would not deprive our children of information that would allow them to equal us as well as to grow beyond us. So, some do create for servitude and insurance later in life and do multiply grossly. Those of greater awareness tend to create fewer and more intelligent beings. There is only one source, we can call it life, which all sentient beings can borrow from to create as they choose. There are many "Gods" and "Goddesses" who have been creating all over the universe for some time and on each planet their children interact while each attempts to maintain there flock and some even try to increase their numbers( since we all have the source within us by default, more numbers means more power). Each planet does have it's own primary caretakers (God and Goddess), and it is one hell of a task to hang on to it. We all have the comforter and the destroyer in us. We need not search it elsewhere. But there are those who do remind us from time to time. Life is evolving and this is yet another step away from it's origin.

reply to post by zagnuzer


I have utterly been swallowed up by the esoteric here and may have lost all hope of holding this thread together for a few more insightful posts.

That being said...Are you saying that the more people or any sentient being really that comes about in the universe actually empowers the "god" in this case supreme overly hyper advanced race mind/spirit? That we and every other living thing are a part of said being and as we experience existence it becomes more powerful without end?

Hello,
Not exactly. What I am saying is that sentient beings exist on many levels of awareness and intentions. 100 "people" will overpower 1 most any day of the millennium. Sentient beings have a tremendous power to create reality as they think. You get control of this system on a massive level and it is fuel for your grand design. Now your up against others with the same idea, Look at Earth and it's history as well as present times. Now within each of us is the possibility to live according the highest ideal there is (I call this God, the best version of who we could be. And very few really try to live the God they believe in) and overcome this situation. But energy usually chooses the path of least resistance and few rise to the challenge. Also, many of us are much older than our human age. We have a history long before we were born here. We have access to better lines of communication than most and we meet on ATS (shameless plug) so that we don't feel so alone in a world where most people shut down when you bring this stuff up. It may be esoteric for some, but for me, this has been my entire life.
Thank you.

P.S. You words "the "god" in this case supreme overly hyper advanced race mind/spirit? That we and every other living thing are a part of said being and as we experience existence it becomes more powerful without end? "
I believe a major part of the prime creator is neutral and asleep in it's creation. This is the energy that makes up the natural world. We all have a connection to the source and, in turn, are creators ourselves with a choice. We all gather in societies according to our beliefs. When you pass on to these places we will return. We travel the Universe to gather new ideas and to evolve ourselves and the societies we belong to.