Michael Moore: Happy F*n' Labor Day

So, a Labour Day commentary from...love him or hate him...Michael Moore, in the form of a letter to Rahm Emanuel. I put it in social issues, as I like to think of Organised Labour as a social force. I'm sure that will engender another debate in and of itself.

Still, Moore makes a lot of timely points about the labour movement in an age where a lot of folks like to blame it for America's (and Canada's) current economic woes.

It's food for thought on this day, but caution, eh?...he doesn't use an asterisk like I did.

Dear Rahm Emanuel:
Happy F*n' Labor Day! I read this week that — according to a new book by Steven Rattner, your administration's former "Car Czar" — during White House meetings about how to save the tens of thousands of jobs that would be lost if GM and Chrysler collapsed, your response was, "F*k the UAW!"...If so, let me give you a little f*g lesson (a lesson I happen to know because my f*g uncle was in the sit-down strike that founded the f*g UAW)... www.michaelmoore.com...

Ahh Michael...outrageous as ever but bang-on in my books.


A self edit to change the URL to a family friendly one...thanks to Ian McLean for pointing that out.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by JohnnyCanuck]

Michael Moore often makes good point. But in this blog entry, he just seems like an angry putz.

PS: ATS censors the naughty-words in the URL, so here's a link to the home page; the article is linked at the top:
www.michaelmoore.com...

I do like Michael Moore's films. Sicko I need to finish. I'm starting to hate the Democrat and Republican; He said she said garbage. Americans need to unite and work together. Respect needs to come because we would always be a multicultural country.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Michael Moore often makes good point. But in this blog entry, he just seems like an angry putz.

PS: ATS censors the naughty-words in the URL, so here's a link to the home page; the article is linked at the top:
www.michaelmoore.com...

Given the globalisation of North American jobs...figure that they're even leaving out of Mexico cuz it's tough to compete with near-slave labour asian work...I'd say his anger is not misplaced.

Thanks, though, for adding the link. I'll also drop it into my posting. Jeez...thought I got all of them F-bombs.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


my ribs hurt after reading that. so eloquently stated, and tactfully chosen words.

-et

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


I like Mike! Sicko was one of the best documentary's I have seen.

All I can say is the UAW subject must have touched a very sore spot.

Originally posted by Tribble
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

I like Mike! Sicko was one of the best documentary's I have seen.

All I can say is the UAW subject must have touched a very sore spot.

Don't spoil it for me yet. America is already a doomed empire. I can't phantom how people would react if this country just collapsed.

The people of the world would not understand.
America is a very strong economy in the world...for many parts of the world it would be like finding out one day gold is worthless...it simply wouldn't make sense.

I know several people around the world...one thing that struck me was this german girl I knew whom was about to come over...she was gonna come over on a work visa, I talked to her about the state of the economy as if it was the whole world, and she thought I was insane...it appears Germany is now in a boom...matter of fact, the whole european area is now in a very strong recovery...it seems America is out in the cold at this point, but the world...the common folk...dont appear to notice how stagnant we have become....or are we just complaining more than what needs to be complained..hmm

Unions care little about businesses, they see it a success story when they hold a company up for ransom and they get the guy who puts a bolt on a nut 50 bucks an hour and retirements that cripple any growth, and then wonder why the company can't compete against its competition or when everything gets outsourced overseas.

When a company or union gets out of control we all get hurt, but a company is just a company where a union affects a whole industry.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Unions care little about businesses, they see it a success story when they hold a company up for ransom and they get the guy who puts a bolt on a nut 50 bucks an hour and retirements that cripple any growth, and then wonder why the company can't compete against its competition or when everything gets outsourced overseas.

When a company or union gets out of control we all get hurt, but a company is just a company where a union affects a whole industry.

Unions are not supposed to care about business, they are for labour representation. Business has it's own representation.

I recommend watching 'Capitalism: A Love Story'. Explains well how worker collectives/cooperatives work and how they are better for workers than private ownership of the means of production, and how capitalism rips off the workers. With socialism we wouldn't need unions.

Moore is a hero.

2nd line.

The UAW destroyed Detroit.

Eff the UAW! People don't seem to understand that while making a good wage for your work is great and all, the foreign car workers down south that don't have a Union only make slightly less than their Union counterparts.

Basically the Unions have made it so that the big three have a tougher time actually hiring workers to work. If you are in the union and are a useless piece of crap they can't fire you because you are in the union, so what ends up happening is quality suffers.

Screw the Union.

reply to post by whatukno


Everything has negative side to it. Without the unions those workers would all be earning less, would have to work longer hours, would have to deal with less safety etc.

Labour has to have representation in large industries where the workers never even see who hires and pays them, and have nowhere to address grievances.

Unless you are a CEO, you don’t have a lot of leverage to demand benefits at your workplace. Every year or two, you might go to your boss and ask for a raise or an extra day of vacation, but usually you can’t do much about what hours you work, what health benefits you receive, or how your retirement benefits are structured. Unions give workers that leverage.
Unions are designed to give workers a voice in decisions that affect their jobs. They allow workers to negotiate with their employers for wages, health benefits, retirement benefits, and good working conditions. In the best circumstances, unions partner with companies—both have an interest in satisfied, happy workers.

blog.aflcio.org...

[edit on 9/7/2010 by ANOK]

Seems to me that a lot of anti-union people don't really understand what our working world would look like without unions.

Reminds me of Grapes of Wrath. Where, they would pay the lowest of low wages to the people picking oranges, because there was no work and if one person demanded more then that person would be fired and some other poor, unemployed soul would take his place because most people were willing to work even if they got paid exponentially less than what they deserved.

Because we have minimum wage, good working conditions, workplaces mostly free of harassment, benefits, and all of that, it's easy to say that unions aren't doing anything good and are putting down quality and stuff. But if you got rid of unions, then you're getting rid of the middle class, saying goodbye to minimum wage and getting paid what workers get paid over in Indonesia, and are throwing away good working conditions and potentially getting asbestos poisoning or something worse.

So my point is... those who demonize unions don't often think about how important unions really are to a healthy, sane, and livable work environment. But if you really want to get rid of unions, try living in a Southeast Asian country and see how great it is there...

[edit on 9/7/2010 by spacekc929]

The unions used to have a place in this country, but now they do much more harm than good.

Screw Unions, a person should be paid based on ability not how long they have been with the company. Why should a company keep someone that has been there 20 years and now doesn't have to do a damn thing because of seniority?

10,000 idle autoworkers pocketing $1.3 billion
Detroit car industry pays them full wages under UAW deal
January 28, 2005
BY JEFFREY McCRACKEN
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
Amid falling U.S. market share, shuttered plants and production cutbacks, Detroit's three automakers and largest auto supplier are paying about 10,000 hourly workers in the United States and Canada full wages and benefits not to work, a Free Press survey shows. The number appears to be up from the last few years and will likely grow again this year, though it still won't be as high as a decade ago. Most of the companies refused to say how much they are spending to pay all these workers, but it's likely well over $1 billion this year, given the number of workers and typical union wage-and-benefit packages.

Source: www.freep.com...

Originally posted by whatukno

Eff the UAW! People don't seem to understand that while making a good wage for your work is great and all, the foreign car workers down south that don't have a Union only make slightly less than their Union counterparts.

And who do you think set the bar for those non-union wage standards...management? No, it was required because they had to compete with the union gigs.

The unions used to have a place in this country, but now they do much more harm than good.

Screw Unions, a person should be paid based on ability not how long they have been with the company. Why should a company keep someone that has been there 20 years and now doesn't have to do a damn thing because of seniority?

So because some slacker gets protected by a seniority clause, the entire standard of living in North America should go down the toilet? Further, do you think it was the unions that sent all the manufacturing jobs overseas? Think about it...labour costs get decimated by foreign manufacturing but retail sure doesn't reflect that...who makes the difference? Wall Street? That's who you ought to pillory, not your neighbour with a good union gig. Why do you feel that need to join the race to the bottom and saddle the American worker with Indian labour standards?

10,000 idle autoworkers pocketing $1.3 billion
Detroit car industry pays them full wages under UAW deal

Are you aware that that deal was cut by Detroit because it was was more cost effective to keep them 'on retainer' than to retrain and entire work force after lay-off?

Once again...a contract is a set of rules established by both labour and management.

And to my experience...NO shop gets unionised that doesn't deserve it.


[edit on 7-9-2010 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by whatukno

Screw the Union.

Bravo Wukky! For all our disagreements, and they are plenty, there is a damn good reason I count you as my brother. This post of yours is just one example as to why.

Originally posted by ANOK

Unions are not supposed to care about business, they are for labour representation. Business has it's own representation.

Some how it all gets out of hand though.

I recommend watching 'Capitalism: A Love Story'. Explains well how worker collectives/cooperatives work and how they are better for workers than private ownership of the means of production, and how capitalism rips off the workers. With socialism we wouldn't need unions.

The problem with socialism is the bigger the population the more costly it is for the worker, also a country needs a large workforce compared to the non-work force.

Even in capitalism a company success can be the workers success too, well at least with the good companies.

I do believe that there is a big difference between capitalism and corporatism..

Originally posted by whatukno
The UAW destroyed Detroit.

Basically the Unions have made it so that the big three have a tougher time actually hiring workers to work. If you are in the union and are a useless piece of crap they can't fire you because you are in the union, so what ends up happening is quality suffers.

We have this above and we have wages and retirements that end up way out of alignment with what they should be. A lot of Unions might as well be organized crime with their power and capabilities. Pick the worst corporations and they have union counterparts just as bad.

People in union free states have always done better.
Just one example…

Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."
Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

Originally posted by Xtrozero
"The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Did we miss the point on that? Management arrived at the conclusion that it is cheaper to pay workers on lay -off than it is to have to let them all go and have to retrain a sizable number of people to fill the positions of those who go elsewhere. Yes it's in the UAW contract because they and management negotiated a solution that made the best business case.