Universal destruction and the death of Humanity.

The end of the universe is from what I have read something that may be unavoidable and in various cases even desired depending on the situation. The question I have is what’s the point? Of Human achievement that is.

If lets say the Human race spends the better part of the rest of its existence striving to achieve something what would that be? In the end can we escape the possible destruction of the universe?
I have considered a number of ways people may attempted to survive but none of them can be said to have any real hard science behind them.
Everything from storing their information in an alternate dimension where it can somehow grow on its own into an independent life form; Universal government or restarting another universe from the possible collapse of this one and the list goes on. But when it is all said and done what will we be working toward? Is it the ultimate survival of our species beyond the eventual death of the known universe?

Perhaps people are preoccupied with the idea that we live for the experience which I have to say is something I would expect a small child to say. The reason being is that I view a species mental and cultural evolution in terms of a single being. I’m not sure if that applies but so far it seems to work okay.

What I mean by that if it isn’t obvious already is that in the life span of an individual from early childhood until death a person undergoes vast changes in consciousness, understanding and many other aspects of knowledge that change over time. However regardless of how much a person may change they still retain many of the same traits that made them unique to everyone else. For example a possible sense of wonder, a desire to explore and be curious in a specific way or a personality that basically stays the same throughout life.
On the other hand you have the things that do change, like physical appearance, life choices, personal beliefs and knowledge etc. While these things change they are essentially still part of the same person from beginning to the end.

So it is with in this I have kind of amalgamated the whole idea of a species into the concept of individual existence. I know it is nothing new to be sure, but for this point I’m using it.

So when I say that I would expect a small child to say that we as a race live for experience I mean just that. Because children live for experience and grow from it. Once you reach adult hood however the over arching theme of life changes from experienced based exploration into a more structured experimentation of the world in which you live.
Utilizing all the information attained up to that point to establish a reasonable and acceptable concept of the experience.

So with that I would ask the question again, what’s the point? For a race what is beyond the level of experience? Is the next step action of some kind?
Assuming that a race was individual and for pure giggles that the Kardashev scale could be applied in the following scenario: civilization classes 1-4 being divided by an average human lifespan of 75 years comes out to about 19 years per class. Well you can count class 1 out as it will still be preoccupied with menial tasks.
Class 2 may not be any better and for that matter could be in the beginning throws of a mid life crisis.


So hopefully by the time you get to Class 3 you are starting to get an idea of where you are who you are and what you should be doing to plan for the future. With any luck a civilization lived its life “smart” enough to use the information it had gathered up to that point to start formulating a plan of action or (planning for retirement).

The rest of your existence is spent living life as always with the pending fact that annihilation will ensue. So eventually in the very remote future when you as a civilization are on your deathbed would you have made the right decisions that may save you, or can you even be saved? It is hard for me to think that intelligent life came to be in the universe only to have the universe end with out a fuss everything gone, not with out a fight from the universes heavy hitters at any rate.

I’m not sure that if the humans that exist in that time would be able to communicate effectively with other civilizations lower than themselves, nor with any other possible high class groups of level 4 and above. In the far out concept of universal governance by the “gods” of the universe maybe then there would be some hope in coming together to make a difference, that is to say if they can even agree.
However in the end, if it is not able to be stopped all the eons of achievement don’t mean jack. Everything I guess is meaningless unless you can hold up after the end of all things, bringing me back to my original question. What’s the point?

I may have answered my own question with this thread but I would like to get some feed back on what others think. Its all obviously opinion based and highly unrealistic. I don’t for one second think that mankind will survive that long. But it’s interesting to think about.


[edit on 6-9-2010 by snowen20]

What`s the point? It`s to see how much humanity can grow, not in numbers, not in material goods, but how much they can achieve in a spiritual nature. I would say, the best thing one could achieve right now, would to get away from selfish tendencies, to stop thinking in terms of what one can do for the self, but what one can do for the good of the whole. This world was not created for the benifit of just one, it was created for the benifit of the whole. But, many don`t see it in those terms. They feel the world is here just for their benifit alone, and everything on it, belongs to them. It`s called greed. It`s the one thing that drags humanities growth to a standstill.

If life is all about the amount of material possessions one can amass during a lifetime, what would be the gain in this? There is no gain in it. Has anybody been able to take any material poessessions with them when they die? No, so what good have they created in doing this? It`s more that they waisted their time here, by thinking in terms of what they can get for themselves.

So, the best thing to strive for, would be to bring the world of the spiritual, into the world of the material, and merge them together. To help not only humanity, but this world evolve into greater being.

Very good question OP, beyond achieving something that benefits mankind after your own demise what are any and all of our achievments worth? What is the point in trying to survive life on earth if we can't escape the inevitable destruction of the universe?

Well keeps us busy I suppose, oh and the fact that one day we might realise how to hack into life and upgrade to the next level, which I don't think any other species living on this planet could or would even give rise to the thought to do so.

So why do we continue to strive to survive? Because we might just have the smarts to do so (eventually)

I don't think we will but as I said,

Keeps us busy.

What has always struck me is the extreme variabilty of the humans on this planet. We are all at different levels of experience and understanding. In that sense, I see no way all of humanity can become unified. Because of that, the only option I see is for us to make ourselves better and more conscious one soul at a time.

It doesn't seem to be worth much on a universal scale, no.

But why are you judging Humanity on a universal scale, when that is clearly not our domain? Our domain is the here and now. We should achieve because we can achieve, and because it will make our short little lives in a tiny fraction of the universe that little bit better.

reply to post by snowen20
You've hit on some deep thinking to write this OP. It raises questions that, possibly, only a small percentage of people have touched upon over time. Naturally, physicists and philosophers have spent their days with the knowledge that everything will end at a certain point in the future...

In a real sense, it's doom, destiny and fate in all its shades and flavours. Life thrives, multiplies and mutates through infinite myriad forms around star systems that spin further and further apart. We're dancing headlong in glorious slow-motion to an inevitable death...entropy.

The end of humanity is a profound concept, yet our small corner of the universe has seen other species become extinct with a fearful regularity. Dire wolves, dinosaurs and passenger pigeons have all winked from existence. Will our passing be more significant?

It's hard to ignore the breathtaking beauty that shines in every corner and niche of the universe. Will our passing diminish that beauty or will the majesty of the Carina Nebula no longer matter without some aspect of life being there to appreciate it?

As theoretical physics continues to grow and weirdness becomes accepted normality, perhaps the end of the universe and the death of humanity will cease to be a meaningful concept? The slippery aspects of String Theory allows for 11 dimensions, many Earths and multi-universes. Mind-blowing stuff! In these theories, the end of this universe doesn't necessarily mean the end of all universes...

Isaac Asimov considered the questions you raise also. He characterised the human wonder about the end of life as the ultimate question. 'Will the Universe really end and will humanity cease to exist?' He wrote a short story that's considered as one of the best sci-fi stories of all time. I say BS. It's one of the deepest stories of all time without the need for dumping it in the sci-fi section of literature.

It's called 'The Last Question.'

For decades, Multivac had helped design the ships and plot the trajectories that enabled man to reach the Moon, Mars, and Venus, but past that, Earth's poor resources could not support the ships. Too much energy was needed for the long trips. Earth exploited its coal and uranium with increasing efficiency, but there was only so much of both.

But slowly Multivac learned enough to answer deeper questions more fundamentally, and on May 14, 2061, what had been theory, became fact.

The energy of the sun was stored, converted, and utilized directly on a planet-wide scale. All Earth turned off its burning coal, its fissioning uranium, and flipped the switch that connected all of it to a small station, one mile in diameter, circling the Earth at half the distance of the Moon. All Earth ran by invisible beams of sunpower.

The Last Question by Isaac Asimov

Two engineers ask 'Multivac' if there's any way to stop the Universe from coming to an end...

Perhaps eventual destruction points to the idea that progress is a lie and the destiny of humanity/maturation through life experience is circular in pattern. Certainly on a microcosmic level, the eventuality of death for all individuals, has been pondered by many minds. On a macro level perhaps after the extinction of the species everyone begins to dream a new reality.

What's the point of dutiful endeavor if there is no immortality? I don't know... hopefully people won't find out too soon.

WOW!
This is exactly the kind of responses I was hoping for, and sense I earnestly agree with every post thus far I can get away with replying them all here by saying damn fine points.

I realize there are so many variables that go into this situation that it is almost pointless to mention, but I had to ask.
You see where I see things it doesn't matter if you live for 75 years or you live for 75 trillion the process is the same and what you do with in that time frame says a lot.

I don't think I'm judging humanity as much as just posing a question, that question of course being, whats the next step for us?
Because whether we are wiped out tomorrow by a Solar flare or wiped out in a crunch, freeze, heat death whatever the case may be the result is the same.

I guess another point that I appreciate is the one made that we treat the earth as a tool rather than a habitat, and that raises additional questions about hyper advanced races potentially using the universe for a tool thereby ultimately causing its destruction when it otherwise would have continued.

Also the idea that in our passing the universe was pointless because it is only wondrous and magnificent when there is an entity with the mental capacity to be in awe over it. That means that the passing of such a species truly is disastrous since such adoration could in the hands of an advanced race be grounds for the creation of a greater existence.

A lot of science fiction works out there are great for provoking thought in these areas, and they all tend to lean toward the Human race being able to arrest their deaths through science so great as to be likened to magic. Such ideas usually consist of the race passing on to a "higher" level of existence. A theme that has existed since the dawn of man. I believe it can be done but if nothing else exists beyond, undoubtedly we would create one eventually.

If we can get our head out of our asses long enough to think I believe we may have the potential to attain such a high level of existence we could be easily be mistaken for gods. In those days long from now when all the stars go out and all that's left is our voice in the deep dark can we speak "let there be light" and bring forth another out of the former?
With all our effort and all our love for science in the end we may be looping back around to something that can only be likened to the supernatural or spiritual; where the end goal at the far end of time is nothing short of becoming god. I believe that out of everything whatever it is we do the ultimate transition between the one celled organism we are now and the universal concept we can become, lies in the effort we put into it.

The greatest thing about Mankind is that to date there has been nothing that hasn't entered the mind that like wise hasn't somehow been accomplished or worked toward. What an incredible feat. That there is a creature in the universe that has the ability to bring into existence (albeit with much toil) anything it desires given enough time.

One poster asked "why do I judge humanity on a universal level."
Because we are already here. I don't however consider our present condition in the scenarios I have presented because we are way to low on the totem pole to even think of making a difference right now.

I believe there is very little we can even consider that can be applicable to the state of mind we would have eons hence. No more than an infant can grasp the high strung deep philosophy and reasoning of an accomplished quantum physicist. Right now all we can do is just feel important and hope that we are as crucial as we perceive ourselves to be.

Who knows we may just reach godhood one way or another we have time, and lots of it.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by snowen20]