‘US should leave Afghanistan before it is defeated totally’

Islamabad, Sep 6 – The US is heading for a catastrophic rout in Afghanistan like in Iraq and should hurry to leave these countries ‘or for that matter, the entire Asian continent’ before its defeat becomes complete, an editorial in a Pakistani paper said Saturday.

www.indiatalkies.com...

From the above article Two conclusions can be set forth.
1. ISI is loosing the Proxy war against the US, therefore using the last desperate attempt to stir fear in the heart of America.

2. ISI is winning the Proxy war against the US, but some in Pakistan are simply warning the US to act smart and leave now before it meets the same faith as USSR.

Afghanistan's largest private bank at the brink of collapse

The run on the bank began last week after allegations of corruption and mismanagement, although officials have maintained the bank will not fail.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Fears over Karzai’s decision to ban Afghanistan’s private security firms

Some privately-owned security firms have been accused of robbery and human rights abuses, with poorly trained, undisciplined staff putting civilian lives at risk.

There have also been accusations that some companies bribe the Taliban to allow them to pass through insurgent-controlled territory.

www.heraldscotland.com...

Taliban footprint 'spreading' in Afghanistan: Petraeus

Petraeus acknowledged the spread of Taliban influence, especially to parts of the formerly peaceful north.

www.google.com...
Although Petraeus argues that the insurgents have moved from their strong hold due to increase pressure from the Allies, I interpret the situation a little differently, I believe the insurgency has given birth to the north rather than moved to the north.

It is a sign that more and more Afghans are joining the insurgency, from all across the country, very similar situation the USSR was facing.

I suspect once Ahmad Shah Massoud's followers join the fight against the occupation, the game is over for the US. I think that is what Pakistan is referring to, I think Pakistan sees the frustration of drugs and corruption which has haunted the country for 8 years now, and knows sooner than later the north will join the fight.

What do you think will happen?

Do you think the US of A will loose in Afghanistan, something similar to USSR therefore loose control of the whole Middle East, or do you think it will accomplish its mission although the situation is bleak.

To end it, I will leave you with this:

‘The Americans should consider the lessons of history… When even the mighty British empire could not impose its will on the people of Afghanistan, how can the Americans, who are just half British, can seek to do so,’ it said.

www.indiatalkies.com...

Thoughts!

oz



[edit on 6-9-2010 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


I say american troops should only be deployed to protect Americans..

So they should never have gone there or set up bases in, what is it?, 170 countries or something...

BTW, don't worry about the money..The Fed can print on weekends if needed..

10 generations of Americans are already sold, whats a few more?

[edit on 6-9-2010 by CynicalM]

Is this also your beliefs? Because how are we going to be totally defeated by a bunch of cowards that hide in the mountains and randomly place road side bombs and randomly launch mortars and rockets at our bases? For a total defeat it would take hundreds maybe thousands of years at this rate...

As for the contractors, the military has nothing to do with them at all, for the most part. They are the ones that cause the most trouble downrange and do most of the stupid stuff that you hear about.

And of course the government there is going to be corrupt, that is one of the reasons that we are still there. As long as terrorists organizations are instilling fear into the people of Afghanistan there will be corruption.

The only reason the Russia lost is because we trained the Taliban to use guerilla tactics.... And we supplied them.

You are getting this all from an Indian site though. Really what do they know about what is going on there. I haven't seen any Indian troops in Afghanistan the 5 times I have been there.

Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by oozyism

 

I say american troops should only be deployed to protect Americans..

So they should never have gone there or set up bases in, what is it?, 170 countries or something...

BTW, don't worry about the money..The Fed can print on weekends if needed..

10 generations of Americans are already sold, whats a few more?

[edit on 6-9-2010 by CynicalM]

We are deployed in locations to protect Americans.... If you only knew the intel we have pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq. I wish I could tell you more but unfortunatley I cannot.

As for the bases we have all over the world.... We have them there because we are one of the ONLY countries in the world that will come to the aid of ANY country that is need. Whether it be supplies, aid, or if they are being unjustly overrun by another country. Most countries like that we have bases there.

We are not the official world police but what other countries can you name that would help out half of the countries we do and will and risk our own military lives trying to help and protect them?

reply to post by Reign02


Firstly, please name the wars the US has won...

Secondly, the US has bases and starts wars where it suits "them" with resources or geographically...

If you believe they are there to help the locals then you are in the minority..

Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by Reign02

 

Firstly, please name the wars the US has won...

Secondly, the US has bases and starts wars where it suits "them" with resources or geographically...

If you believe they are there to help the locals then you are in the minority..

Well lets see here:

American Revolution against the Brits
Quasi War
war of 1812
Spanish-American war
Philippine–American war
Mexican-American war
WWI and WWII can be claimed as victories
Invasion of Grenada
Invasion of Panama
Cold War (technically)
Desert Storm
Operation Iraqi Freedom (took Sadam out of power)


There are quite a few more but I really don't feel like typing that much.
Anymore questions?

And seeing how I am currently serving in the military and I am overseas. And I have been to Haiti, Africa, and Georgia all on peace keeping missions and or aid missions, I would say that you are wrong and you have no idea what you are talking about bud.

Ohh and I was slotted to go to Pakistan for the floods but I got taken off the team that was going for medical reasons.


Edit for typing mistake (Induring was supposed to be Iraqi)


[edit on 6-9-2010 by Reign02]

reply to post by Reign02

Cold War (technically)
Desert Storm
Operation Induring Freedom (took Sadam out of power)

You really call them wins?? I'm surprised..

Basically nothing you can call a real win in 60 years...
How much have US tax payers layed out in that 60 years?
For what???

So you are one of the soldiers that think if you don't enlist, you don't know what going on???

Hmm, maybe it's more a case of soldiers being brainwashed to fight for a different cause...
The great american dollar!!

Afghanistan is tricky. Just ask the Soviets. Furthermore, there is more motivation behind the "stabilization" of Afghanistan that goes deeper than just rooting out terror cells

How about an untapped abundance of minerals that the rest of the world wants.

Afghanistan is gearing up to award contracts to mine one the world's largest iron ore deposits buried in a peaceful province of the nation that has at least $3 trillion in untapped minerals, the country's top mining official said Thursday.

Geologists have known for decades about Afghanistan's vast deposits of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and other prized minerals, but a U.S. Department of Defense briefing earlier this week put a startling, nearly $1 trillion price tag on the reserves.

Afghanistan's Minister of Mines Wahidullah Shahrani called that a conservative estimate. He said he's seen geological assessments and industry reports estimating the nation's mineral wealth at $3 trillion or more.

For Afghanistan, a war-torn, landlocked country with virtually no exports, it is a potential windfall, although formidable obstacles remain including lack of investment, infrastructure and adequate security in most of the nation.

"The ministry has been working closely with the international organizations, including the World Bank, the U.S. Geological Survey and the international mining and finance community for some time to ensure all of the Afghan people benefit from our rich natural resources for decades to come," he said.

Read more: www.nydailynews.com... Tu

So, if they are estimating $1 to $3 trillion, I would say that it is more like $5 to $7 trillion. All nations involved have their poker faces on.

reply to post by CynicalM


Well about those 3 wars you highlighted from my post.
Cold War really was won technically by the US

Desert Storm- we marched right into baghdad with little resistance and shook Sadam up for trying to invade Kuwait and using chemical weapons. He formally surrendered so yea I would consider that a victory........

Operation Iraqi Freedom is what I intended to post. I had a type-o LOL. Also we marched into Baghdad with little resistance yet again and took Sadam out of power and apprehended him. Sadam was put out of power in Iraq, freeing it's citizens from his tyranny. So yea that was a victory..............

What are you getting at exactly.....

And I enlisted to get free college and to see the world and so far I have. And trust me that you know a million times more than civilians know by joining up and actually going to Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places. And you know even more so when you have the Special Forces tag. I am USAF TACP. I deploy with Rangers, SEALS, Delta and some other un-named units and special forces. So yea I think my intel is significantly better and more valuable than that of yours.

Also what country are you from? I love to see people from other countries putting in on stuff that they have no clue about. I find it funny. I am going to take a wild stab and say you are a Brit or Aussy.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by Reign02]

reply to post by Reign02


lol, well done on one thing, I'm an Aussie...

But winning in Iraq??

I really don't think so..Didn't I read US fatalities are up??

Thats innocent US sons dead for no good reason other than money..

I'm sorry that you think you have to be in the thick of the fight to know the truth..Its also amazing how many seem to be in special forces...
Seems like every second guy I hear from is..

I do hope you stay safe, where ever you are...

Originally posted by Reign02

Cold War really was won technically by the US

As the US was the "last man standing", that is a reasonable assertion.

However: it wasn't the USA that defeated the USSR, it was Afghanistan.

Brezinski tricked the soviets into afghanistan to weaken their powerful military.

Brezinski led the us into afghanistan to ..... ?

ooo dear, what a coincidence?

reply to post by Reign02

And seeing how I am currently serving in the military and I am overseas. And I have been to Haiti, Africa, and Georgia all on peace keeping missions and or aid missions, I would say that you are wrong and you have no idea what you are talking about bud.

I don't see any war zones there but your previous posts say things like,
"we walked into bagdad", "I deploy with Rangers and Delta"...

And yet I read you are or were stationed in England..

Exactly what "war zones" have you been in to declare you know "one million" times more than me???

Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by Reign02

 

And seeing how I am currently serving in the military and I am overseas. And I have been to Haiti, Africa, and Georgia all on peace keeping missions and or aid missions, I would say that you are wrong and you have no idea what you are talking about bud.

I don't see any war zones there but your previous posts say things like,
"we walked into bagdad", "I deploy with Rangers and Delta"...

And yet I read you are or were stationed in England..

Exactly what "war zones" have you been in to declare you know "one million" times more than me???

I have been to Iraq 5 times, Afghanistan 5 times also. I have also been on volunteer missions to Haiti and Africa (Sierra Leone) yea there is no warzone in Africa.... Also Georgia during the whole Russia/Georgia stand off... No warzone there either

You should have read all my posts and you would know....

Originally posted by Reign02

haven't seen any Indian troops in Afghanistan the 5 times I have been there.

Originally posted by CynicalM
reply to post by Reign02

 

lol, well done on one thing, I'm an Aussie...

But winning in Iraq??

I really don't think so..Didn't I read US fatalities are up??

Thats innocent US sons dead for no good reason other than money..

I'm sorry that you think you have to be in the thick of the fight to know the truth..Its also amazing how many seem to be in special forces...
Seems like every second guy I hear from is..

I do hope you stay safe, where ever you are...

Fatalities are up yea so what... For every one of ours there are atleast 3-5 of theirs. I never said you have to be in the thick of the fight... But what better way to understand how things are by being there, talking to locals, building friendships with locals and fighting the terrorists. Also the intel breifings we would recieve before a mission. And I really could careless if you don't believe that I am USAF Special Forces, doesn't phaze me any. I call in airstrikes and deploy out with the best of the best that is good enough for me, take it or leave it, I don't care. And I will be safe and I appreciate the concern for my safety, but that is what I have my M4 for.

And yes I am stationed currently in England. We don't get stationed in the warzones we go TDY there. Most of the time it is for 6-15 months depending on the mission. Other times it could be 1-2 weeks it just varies.

TDY stands for Temporary Duty Assignment if you didn't know, just want to be clear so you aren't like WTF is TDY

[edit on 6-9-2010 by Reign02]

USA should not only leave Afghanistan but should reconsider the whole ,policing the world thing .

Guns and Butter - "Afghanistan Pakistan Imbroglio" with Pakistani General Hamid Gul.

We discuss the events of September 11th; Osama bin Laden; his famous interview with Arnaud de Borchgrave; US invasion of Afghanistan; drone attacks; Pakistan's military operations in the Northwest Frontier, US Special Forces; destabilization of Pakistan; the assassination of Benazir Bhutto www.kpfa.org...

Originally posted by Reign02
Is this also your beliefs? Because how are we going to be totally defeated by a bunch of cowards that hide in the mountains and randomly place road side bombs and randomly launch mortars and rockets at our bases? For a total defeat it would take hundreds maybe thousands of years at this rate...

Reign, these are people that are defending their home. I ask what you would be doing in the same circumstances. Those people have no electricity, running water etc, yet you mock them and call them a bunch of cowards for not wanting to come out of their caves, to face the full force of American technological warfare.

And of course the government there is going to be corrupt, that is one of the reasons that we are still there. As long as terrorists organizations are instilling fear into the people of Afghanistan there will be corruption.

Could you please explain what you mean about the government being corrupt and that's why the military must stay there. What does corruption mean to you? Other cultures do business differently, as a result it is sometimes simplistic to refer to these different cultural practices as corruption.

The only reason the Russia lost is because we trained the Taliban to use guerilla tactics.... And we supplied them.

So, let me guess, you are now in the process of arming the next 'freedom fighters'.

You had a moderately successful conversion rate in Asia however, I doubt there will be much success in the Middle East.

reply to post by deessell


Actually these are not people defending their homes..... They are out on the road planting bombs not sitting in their houses and waiting for us. We are NOT attacking them. They are attacking us. These people have men all over the world ready to commit mass murder by IEDs,VBIEDs, or suicide bombers. They want to kill everyone that is not a child of Islam... That is what you people never remember. They want to cut your head off just as bad as mine. They have targeted us before the whole 9-11 thing happened anyway. Do some research on terror attacks against the US and US citizens on foreign soil.

Corruption like the Taliban has everyone in their pockets... They rule that area using fear and intimidation

conversion rate....... Really....... You need to lay off ATS and propaganda sites bud.

And another thing; The killing in Afghanistan would stop if they and I say THEY would stop opening fire upon us and stop planting bombs. IF they would just cool their operations we would leave. They know this, they are smart. But they want to kill every last one of us. They do not want us to leave all they care about is killing westerners.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by Reign02]

Originally posted by Reign02
We are deployed in locations to protect Americans.... If you only knew the intel we have pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq. I wish I could tell you more but unfortunatley I cannot.

Thanks for your informative posts. As to your statement above, I think there is a chicken and an egg problem with that. Whatever intel we have pulled out of this region really does concern the situation and new dynamics we created ourselves. It's like you deliberately run your car into a concrete wall and total it, but then find consolation in gaining rare experience with airbags.

As the result of war in Iraq, the balance of power in the Gulf region has been changed dramatically in favor of Iran, that's what most people agree about. And that's not a good thing for the US. And Afghanistan has always been intractable. It's just striking how incompetent the US leadership has been to get involved there for the long term. ISI is playing both sides of the field, as you must surely know. It's a mess.

Originally posted by Reign02
reply to post by deessell

 

Actually these are not people defending their homes..... They are out on the road planting bombs not sitting in their houses and waiting for us. We are NOT attacking them. They are attacking us.

Reign, I see a huge gap in logic here. We are foreign troops in a distant land. You just stick to a legal definition of "home", like they are supposed to defend their kitchen. They are defending their land. The Pashtun are notoriously and fiercely loyal to their land, tribes and tradition. For many of them, the Islam component is just a cherry on the murderous cake of hatred towards the US.

These people have men all over the world ready to commit mass murder by IEDs,VBIEDs, or suicide bombers.

"All over the world" is a big word. The Taliban doesn't have massive global capability. I know there were bombings in London etc, but seems like the bombers were motivated exactly by the revenge after we invaded the region. Go figure.

They want to kill everyone that is not a child of Islam... That is what you people never remember.

You said yourself that we practically created Taliban (which is true). And they'll always be there now.