necromonican occult majik explained,dont miss it!!

reply to post by King Seesar


You may be right as well.

If it exist, then it would be plausible to believe in gods, which usually (at least in Christian tradition) condemns use of any type of magick, be it white, black or natural.

However, if it does not exist, there's no point even to talk about it

My opinion at the moment is closer to the latter option. Just an opinion as well.

-v

[edit on 6-9-2010 by v01i0]

Originally posted by dontreally
Master of reality? I think thats a bit exagerrated.

Can i ask you what point there is in performing 'magic'?

I really cant figure out the value in it. Why is simple faith, trust, prayer and meditation... too simple? not interesting enough?

Nope. Not exaggerated at all. I know exactly what my reality is.

The point? What's the point in a flea?

You can't understand the value of my construct, because you've not constructed it. You rely on a simple foundation. As long as it supports, you, be happy with it.

Originally posted by hadriana

Originally posted by dontreally
Master of reality? I think thats a bit exagerrated.

Can i ask you what point there is in performing 'magic'?

I really cant figure out the value in it. Why is simple faith, trust, prayer and meditation... too simple? not interesting enough?

Nope. Not exaggerated at all. I know exactly what my reality is.

The point? What's the point in a flea?

You can't understand the value of my construct, because you've not constructed it. You rely on a simple foundation. As long as it supports, you, be happy with it.

So youre saying reality is inherently subjective, and therefore what i consider immoral ie; practical magic, you find moral..

Again, that doesnt make sense. The concept is as meaningful to me as it is to anyone else with a working brain and the power of logic.

I dont know if you meant 'simple construct' in a disparaging way or merely commenting on the nature of my reality. Yes, simplicity is exactly what makes life normal, easy and most of all real. The more things become complicated, the more you become removed from the natural experience of reality, and move into your own synthetic distorted version of it.

Magic is a needless construct. What you do with 'magic' and manipulation of reality, millions of other people do with simple faith, prayer and meditation, and best of all they dont delude themselves into the supericilous notion that theyre a 'master' of any reality. Youre inherently finite. When you die, you like all of us return to the same cosmic source which will judge our earthly existence. Now, if you pretend youre whole life that you have power in the face of whats blatantly the case ie; that were intrinsically dependent on our source, there is absolutely no need to become technical about matters of spirituality, ie; concentrating on 'magic' when you can put your heart and soul into truly living in the world in an honest and sincere way, happy with whatever happens. Magick, is like analyzing the nature of love. Instead of 'experiencing' the experience of love for another person, an anal person will look at it being a consquence of horomones etc. Yes, thats true, it does exist. Yes, a pill can make me happy, and yes, spiritual forces are at play between people. That doesnt mean i SHOULD take a pill nor does it mean i should make an effort to instigate changes. Its as if you think things wouldnt go your way without this interference. My point. Its egotistical, and judging from your comments you believe yourself to be some deity

[edit on 6-9-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by hadriana

I know exactly what my reality is.

Most people do in fact. But I see people that does not know what reality is. I am of course referring to the objective one - which we all share without a question. This is the reality I want to learn about, not really about the subjective one. Unfortunately I have to deal with the latter via my work.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Hey V01i0 , thanks for all your replies on the thread
,im sorry i wasnt on when you guys were debating.I know so little its hard for me to have a indept conversation with you guys .All the same im learning not just from a christian point of veiw but both sides and that is great.
Guys do people that use majik call the entities demons? or is this just a religious term for them?
thanks again buddy

[edit on 15/8/2010 by johnny c]

reply to post by dontreally


Hey dont really,thanks very much for your help on the subject and all the very informed replies,most people were just saying no its fiction, thank you for being straight with me and explaining it to me in a way thats not monsters in my closet,like a lot of people would think it was.

reply to post by hadriana

Hey hadriana, thanks for your input.I find it a subject i just find very interesting.I have never done any majik but its so fascinating in my opinion.I tought in was something totally different when i started the thread
,thanks again

reply to post by johnny c

Originally posted by johnny c
reply to post by v01i0

 

Guys do people that use majik call the entities demons? or is this just a religious term for them?
thanks again buddy

I'm positively convinced that 'demon' is an analogy for the unwanted, unconscious and somewhat uncontrollable disorders. In this sense, I don't see myself denying the reality of this particular phenomena, instead I think that the spiritual (and religious) explanation is wrong one. I've written one thread on the subject, it can be read here. (Didn't feel like writing it all over, sorry).

But of course there are other opinions...

-v

[edit on 7-9-2010 by v01i0]

reply to post by v01i0

Thanks V01i0 ,ill have a look at the thread ,nice one for the quick reply
that is what i was thinking that it was going to be religious in nature.

reply to post by dontreally


You find my belief system immoral. How is that any less egotistical than my finding your belief structure as too simplistic for me to hang MY thoughts on?

I may indeed be a deity. I might be an angel in disguise.

Doesn't the Christian belief system teach one to treat strangers less condescendingly as you have me?

I might believe that you are a God.
I believe, actually, that we all have the ability to become one with God.

All occultism is....is mysticism. Perhaps only other occultists can see that.

For some, there is a stairway to the heavens that is straight, solid, and gilded gold with big arrows pointing WALK THIS WAY. For others, it might open and appear to be transparent like glass, and they never see it.

For others of us, it is inlaid with powerful rocks and minerals, decorated with sacred plants, and carpeted in symbols.

Originally posted by hadriana
reply to post by dontreally

 

You find my belief system immoral. How is that any less egotistical than my finding your belief structure as too simplistic for me to hang MY thoughts on?

I dont get how viewing reality as i suggested is too simple. If youre actually objective about - something you seem to entirely deny the existence of (that is, an objective reality)you can see we all possess the same fundamental spiritual makeup. Were all born into this world from an ineffable simplicity. Yes, its true, this world is packed with symbol. My entire life, everyday, i make an effort to look and absorb the symbolic messages the creator puts around me. My issue with your ideology(not you, you seem nice) is that it assumes that because man is able to manipulate spiritual forces, that he has to. This assumes that HE, the person, man, is in control and not the creator. This therefore distracts and diverts ones attention from a simple awareness of the abundance in G-ds creation.

Also, im not Christian, but Jewish.

Theres a story of the Baal shem Tov, the founder of the chassidic movement that encapsulates this entire point. The Baal Shem Tov in Hebrew literally means 'master of the good name'. The Baal shem was a master kabbalist and therefore knew the archetypal makeup of reality through his comprehension of the Hebrew language. Once he encountered a river that was very wide and he didnt want to wet himself by wading through it. so instead he simply uttered a phrase which enabled him to be transported from one side to the other. After he did this action the rest of the day negative things were being put in front of him. He couldnt understand Why this was happening until he realized that his earlier manipulation signified that he had been lacking faith in the creator. Because he put trust in his own ability to circumvent and obstacle put in front of him, he therefore forfeited the creatoers benevolent guidance and control of his life. He than vowed never to use kabbalah maasit (practical use of kabbalah) ever again.

This story to me is very powerful because it states something all of us, in this technical world so devoid of Emuna (faith) completely forget. G-d in charge of everything that goes on in this world. Its our OWN attitude that determines how he will deal with us.IF i think I have to make changes to physical reality ;ie; perform magic, which is of a transcendtal nature, than the creator is pretty much being told 'i dont need you'. He than leaves you to the random laws of causation of physical creation. He'll therefore put more obstacles in front of you and cause you to live a life rife with difficulties, boundaries and obstacles, which would otherwise not appear if you would perform one important and paramound spiritual exercise - Bittul, which means self nullification. Because we ultimately come from the same source, and this same source permeates all existence, even my own, how can i believe that everything i do is in line with the nature of this source? Im not talking of a pagan dualism herre, where ever negative and evil actions are regarded as being apart of the integral nature of the creator. The Creator PERMITS Evil, but doesnt want his creations, his children, to succumb to them. He gave us the gift of choice, which no other creature possesses. Were inclined to one direction (selfhood, evil etc) but when we become old enough, around 13, were enlightened with a good inclination, a part of us that enables us to overcome and completely transmute the ruddiness of the evil inclination into a shining servant of holiness. So even the animal, the body, is glistening with the holiness of the soul - to an even more intense degree than the soul itself!

Im not trying to be condescending. Im sorry if ive come off that way. When i see an ideology that i personally find offensive to the creator and to truth i become very zealous about it. Even if the person will be obdurate, im gonna atleast make an effort, if the person seems ammenable enough, to explain to them why what they believe is incorrect and motivated from an impure source.

I may indeed be a deity. I might be an angel in disguise.

...said the serpent to eve. Its no coincidence that the serpent said this to EVE; the source of paganism is in the female, and her vilnerability towards egotism. Eve was made a POSSESION of Adam, having being taken from HIS rib and made as a HELPER. This is the dynamic of creation. Of course, relative to the creator, male and female are completely equal, but in this world, the man is in the position of being active, dominant and giving, whereas the women is passive, nurturing and receptive. The womens duty is primarely towards her husband abd children, and the mans duty is to cherish his wife as his most beloved possession... A relationship that truly takes advantage of each sex NATURAL strengths.`But when the evil inclination speaks up, it challenges your selfhood. A women is than told that shes being subjugated, demeaned and enslaved by the masculine and G_D himself (which is why pagans truly hate the Jewish G-d). Therefore the essence of paganism, of a feminine worship of creation is in REVOLT against the natural way of things; its against the dynamic the creator established in favor of an UNNATURAL and twisted recreation of the spiritual dynamic of things into what we essentially have today. A confused paganized traditionless society completely being molded and remade in the psychotic image of their elites. Nebuchadenezers ìdol is a symbol for this unnatural transformation.

To quote an anecdote about John Adams about the role of the male and female.

Abigail Adams grated on her husband John in letters demanding full legal rights for women: “we are determined to instigate a rebellion” she declared, echoing the women of Athens in Lysistrata. John Adams’ reply was only too apt: men’s legal privileges were essential, he wrote, “we dare not exert our power [in the home] in its full latitude…in practice, you know, we are the subjects. We have only the name of masters. To give up on this would subject us completely to the despotism of the petticoat.”

AMEN to that!

[edit on 7-9-2010 by dontreally]

You don't get.....

You never will either.
Now I am no longer one who claims myself a deity, but the serpent to Eve.
Oh enlightenment, you are a Satan, a snake, or a morning star.

Some know the garden and abide there, some are banned forever.

hadriana the last mention of the morning star in the new testament is that it's part of Jesus and just like a eye for eye was replaced by turn the other cheek the final meaning of the morning star is a positive one....


As far as majik being real or not...i feel that it is, but there's different types of majik mind majik supernatural majik illusion majik chaos majik ect ect....but one must take heed because the government now has the technology to duplicate as to what might be perceived as majik just google direct energy weapons and you will see what i mean and this is no myth as the government has already sent in patents regarding this technology.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by King Seesar]

Originally posted by hadriana
You don't get.....

You never will either.
Now I am no longer one who claims myself a deity, but the serpent to Eve.
Oh enlightenment, you are a Satan, a snake, or a morning star.

Some know the garden and abide there, some are banned forever.

Ok, dont bother trying to explain to me the esoteric secrets of Torah. Also, they are not and have never meant to be understood in the corrupted manner that pagans do.

The snake, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the leviathan, are not intrisnically evil concepts.

The Midrash and oral traditino of Judaism explains that if Adam ate FIRST from the tree of life, THAN ate from the tree of knowledge, he wouldnt have been led into the erronerous belief which teh snake spouted at him - "that ye are gods' (Jesus reitterated this). This belief only COMES from the incorrect awareness which the The tree of Knowledge of G&E produces, that man is something OTHER, and separate from his source. Man must know that he is made in the IMAGE of g-d. First and foremost. He is NOT G-d, as paganism loves to teach. Man is something other than G-d, and yet subsumed within the reality that is g-d. Again- ----- this is beyond mans finite dualistic mind to understand at this point in time. First and foremost we have to accept the word of G-d in the Hebrew scriptures, and secondly, we have to understand that this is the path towards humility where one can begin truly serving G-d and experiencing a truer feeling of oneness with him.

As some pagan traditions teach - everything is sacred, even the profane, or especially the profane (as the greek were wont to teach).

Originally posted by King Seesar
hadriana the last mention of the morning star in the new testament is that it's part of Jesus and just like a eye for eye was replaced by turn the other cheek the final meaning of the morning star is a positive one....


As far as majik being real or not...i feel that it is, but there's different types of majik mind majik supernatural majik illusion majik chaos majik ect ect....but one must take heed because the government now has the technology to duplicate as to what might be perceived as majik just google direct energy weapons and you will see what i mean and this is no myth as the government has already sent in patents regarding this technology.

[edit on 7-9-2010 by King Seesar]

all magick has to do with the mind. Otherwise its manipulation of physical forces which we would than call 'technology'..

by the same token magic could be called a psychic technology - by the mythologically impaired.

Originally posted by dontreally
Ok, dont bother trying to explain to me the esoteric secrets of Torah.

Don't worry, I won't. I don't consider it any authority over ME anyway.
I'm pagan to the core. I don't keep any God in any book.

I would suggest reading the actual necromonicon posted below, seems to be the most completed copy I have been able to find online.

www.chaosmatrix.org...

i believe it to be pretty real, the reading/writing style, the age it comes from, the things it makes reference to, and abdul hazred's gruesome eventual death, that is apparently documented in later centuries

lovecraft was given information pertaining to this copy, but he never actually saw or read it, his material was based on other information he received about the old ones

[edit on 8-9-2010 by Naeem82]

reply to post by dontreally


Morning dontreally, hope you are having a good day my friend,thank you very much for your most informed veiw and your very convincing debates
skills. I really enjoyed your story about Baal aswell,i wish i had the knowledge you do on all the subjects so i could talk for hours on it.I have to say i agree with you on the subject of man being god, i dont see how this could be possible in the slightest and i can see how a creator would be offended at the use of majik and the control of spirtual beings.
What do you think of the idea that these beings were put here for man to use?, by some god Markduk[sorry if i spelt his name wrong]

reply to post by King Seesar

Hey King Seesar ,thanks very much for your concern over me and the use of majik my friend.I have taken your advice and the advice of dontreally
and am not going to attempt it in any way or form.
I have enough stuff going through my head without other entities


Thanks very much
JOHN

reply to post by Naeem82

Hey Naeem ,hows it going buddy?,thank you for replying to my threads a lot., I also think there is something to it and thank you for a honest toughts on the subject.
This must be the extra special edition!! nice one
Im very sorry i got the name spelt wrong for abdul hazred i was listening on a radio show and had no reference,being how many Muslim friends i know,i should of spelt it better.
Im not going to preform any Majik but ill gladly have a look at the book.
thanks again
cool avatar!!