Update! Officer challenging Obama's eligibility can't see evidence

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic




Yes, and they could subpoena him if there was a case brought against him. There isn't. There is no case that involves Barack Obama here. A man disobeyed an order. Barack Obama's BC isn't going to change ANYTHING about that.


Do you have any Idea how many people have brought up a case, only to be feed the same bull. People have tried every way possible to get to the bottom of this with no avail. I think that in and of itself says a lot. I have to say that it is quickly forcing no other alternative to violent armed revolt. If you know the law as you say, you know that is the last resort, and this is an example of being backed into a corner with no where else to turn for justice! I guess this is what they want!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You're misunderstanding what I've been saying.

I#m not going through it again, it's late, i'm tired, and i'm loath to repeat myself ad nauseum.

I can appreciate what you are saying, and on many of your points, i am in agreement, however, my points are not centered on bringing a case of any kind against Barack Obama or not. As you (or someone else) said earlier, it is for the US Senate to decide on possible impeachment and criminal trial, or not.

I do sometimes have a knack of saying and meaning certain things, only for some to imagine i mean something entirely different, so, if you are inclined and feel the need, by all means, re-read what i've written.

Cheers.

Why don’t we take a pole here on ats and see what the majority thinks? If it turns out that more people feel he was born in the US we (the birthers) will not argue this topic any further. On the other hand if the majority feels that he is not legit and should provide the papers, you agree to fight with us to get the answers? Does that sound fair?

reply to post by xyankee

Why don’t we take a pole here on ats and see what the majority thinks? If it turns out that more people feel he was born in the US we (the birthers) will not argue this topic any further.

That's a lie. It wouldn't matter, birthers would still argue the topic. There is absolutely nothing that will satisfy you people.

How many threads have been started on this birther idiocy? What evidence besides your suspicions do you have that the POTUS wasn't born in Hawaii? I mean real evidence that he was born somewhere else but Hawaii, not lack of evidence, real evidence.

[edit = to be more specific for the meatheads who can't figure anything out]

[edit on 9/3/2010 by whatukno]

I think that once Republicans take back control of the house and senate this fall requests for full investigation will be put forward.

Obama will step down just like Nixon did to avoid putting the country through a long drawn out trial.

Charges against Larkin will be dropped.

After a year of president Biden the white house will return to Republican control in 2012.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by xyankee

 

That's a lie. It wouldn't matter, birthers would still argue the topic. There is absolutely nothing that will satisfy you people.
.

Time to put up or shut up. As far as me, I give you my word. I cannot speak for the rest, but if they agree to vote I am sure they will also stand by there word. Will you? If the birthers are anything like myself which I think they are, we would stand true to our word. Again? Will you do the same? We can find a Mod to help and get rid of anyone who does not stand by there word. So what do you say?

[edit on 9/3/10 by xyankee]

Once again the main thrust of this has not been completely answered.

For one I am not a birther, or what ever other derogatory statements I have seen fly here

The man has a right in military law to question the origin of his orders. He has a moral and legal obligation to insure his orders are legal.

Reread post WWII history, the trials from vietnam, and korea.

The judge dismissed his right to have any records or information necessary for a defense on the grounds that it would impeach a president.

What evidence can lead to is not the legal basis to dismiss it from evidence. The courts decision is an injustice.

If a panel of military personnel where permitted to view said evidence they judge was a coward and assumed the jury would still find him not guilty.

The prosecution could still win on the fact of who issued the order. His defense would then have to prove that the issuer was directly the sitting president of the USA.

Now due to the judges wrong decision she jeopardized an easy win for the prosecutor. Now all the defense has to do is parade his record and service. Then point the judge out as withholding evidence to the military personnel making the decision.

This is what this is over, at least to me. I have heard nothing stating that Obama has directly ordered this man to war. It was an easy win for the prosecution. Now it is a travesty.

As for the birther anti birther garbage, why seal all the records of your past from scrutiny. Will the skeptics explain that?

Its like doubling or tripling the insurance on building you own less then hours before they fall down...

reply to post by xyankee

Time to put up or shut up. As far as me, I give you my word.

Completely worthless...

I cannot speak for the rest, but if they agree to vote I am sure they will also stand by there word.

No they won't

If the birthers are anything like myself which I think they are, we would stand true to our word.

Birthers are insane idiots.

We can find a Mod to help and get rid of anyone who does not stand by there word. So what do you say?

I am not going to make you pledge to something you have absolutely no intention of adhering to. Birthers are never going to give up on this stupid pathetic idiotic waste of a conspiracy theory.

For instance...

Read This if you are still a birther after reading that, you always will be a birther and there is nothing that no one can say or do that will prove to you that Obama was born in the United States and is eligible for the office he holds.

Originally posted by spikey
You said it.

Not everybody can fake an official document good enough to fool a government official..although there are a great many people that can and do,

Yes that is indeed a possibility, its even possible Obama was planned to be president from day one. There are alot of things possible but not probable. We can sit here all day and argue what may be and what may not be and we can apply this to the last 43 presidents. Its a moot.

Of course, a simple forgery is a very straightforward exercise for members of any of the ABC agencies to accomplish, and even easier still when bankrolled by very influential, powerful and wealthy individuals with an intent to deceive.

Yes. We could speculate that the entire government was in on this conspiracy for the last 40 year and we can even make the claim his father was not really his father. I can also say that that the our last president was not really born in the US. I can say alot of things. You can say alot of things. We can speculate about anything, but that does not mean it is what it is.

Are you forgetting who these people are? These are not some hooky, gang of chancer kids, working out of a basement in a rundown district. These are some of the world most powerful and influential people.

'Powerful' 'influencial' people who decided to take a Kenyan born boy from the 60's and plan his pathway to the presidency decades ahead of time. This would make a fine plot for a movie ya know?

If members of the power elite,

So essentially you're just here to make this entire issue to be a bigger conspiracy than it is, with absolutely nothing to show for it?

Originally posted by ripcontrol
For one I am not a birther,

Birthers in general don't consider themselves 'birthers'.

The man has a right in military law to question the origin of his orders.

The man has the right to freedom of speech, however that does not mean he has the right to view any personal documents of the president because he is 'unsatisfied' with the fact he was elected. Considering as well he is serving in the army where gays are not allowed to say they are gay, I still fail to see where this exactly works out for him?

By your account, if any individual, whether it be a soldier or a citizen, questions a president about anything, that president would be required to respond. I am sorry but this notion is pure stupidity.

Many soldiers questioned their orders to go into Iraq but these soldiers took on the orders none the less. Many soldiers questioned the purpose of Vietnam and why they had to go fight there. That did not mean the president had to account for himself over every single soldier or citizen that questioned. Those were the orders and the only body that can block and hold the president accountable on the authority of his orders is congress at a sufficient majority. The best time for congress to had questioned the president's eligibility was on December 15th 2008, that time came and went.

The judge dismissed his right to have any records or information necessary for a defense on the grounds that it would impeach a president.

No thats a lie. The judge dismissed Lakins complaint on the grounds that he had no standing to request any further documentation from the president. So far as the courts are concerned, Obama already went through the necessary processes to prove his eligibility, in particular on December 15th 2008 where he was confirmed. He is not required to prove anything further.

Lakin had an opportunity to present solid evidence of the presidents ineligibility not just to the judge but to us as did many other birther lawyers and plaintiffs, but thus far neither him or the others have presented anything of relevance. Just a bunch of questions and speculations. Anybody can asks questions. 'Questions' do not override the constitutional process which Obama went through in 2008. Evidence however does.

The prosecution could still win on the fact of who issued the order.

The prosecution is on a road to nowhere, because Lakin like the rest of the 63 odd birther plaintiffs started on nothing but talk. You know what the funniest part to this Lakin case? That he argued that because he presented proof of his birth, Obama should do so as well. Now why would that be funny again? Because Lakin presented as proof of birth his certification of live birth as a birth certificate, in otherwords a short form.
www.safeguardourconstitution.com...

It was issued from 1994. So as much as he is an asshat like the rest, he's also a hypocrite.

Now due to the judges wrong decision

Your own personal opinion and nothing more.

seal all the records

Where's the evidence he is sealed his records over eligibility? Because Obama does not personally respond to birthers day and day out, he has 'sealed his records'? For some reason birthers appear to sit on high horses and think they can demand the rest of the nation to stop because they are dissatisfied with the elections. That is not how the world works.

The simple fact of this case is that he didn't follow his orders, plain and simple. The fact that he doesn't believe the President is legit is besides the point. Only Congress can review this matter.

You can't use logic in this argument as it falls on deaf ears to those that believe Obama is a fraud.

Originally posted by ripcontrol
I have heard nothing stating that Obama has directly ordered this man to war.

Obama is not involved in this trial in anyway, which is why Lakin will lose. All the birthers will just look sillier than they do now!

Quote
'You don't get to think in the military you are obligated to follow the orders or your superiors. '

No you are not - if those orders are improper.
Check your facts.
Nuremberg laid the groundwork on this. The Nazis tried to use the 'orders' excuse and it was thrown out.
The fact is that the USA has a President who will not confirm he is legally entitled to the office. In fact spends millions stopping the issue coming to court.
Who has just placed as a Supreme Court Justice a totally unqualified radical liberal who has been largely instrumental in stopping any court case preceeding which could get discovery of the truth - a blatant pay off if ever there was one.
I am amazed that so many Americans have a complete and total disregard for their constitution and law.
No wonder it is becoming a nation despised and loathed by the rest of the world.
Your 'democracy' is a sham. Your voting system a fraud yet you claim the high ground and destroy and bomb around the planet to impose your fraudulent system on others.
Only the fact that you do have some great Americans who are trying to defend the Nation's honour saves you from total ignominy.
That the great USA has sunk to the level of bankrupted bully led by a President who is probably bogus. whose folk are living on food stamps and in tent cities, that is controlled by corporate greed - my God one wonders what your founding fathers would ever have thought.

reply to post by Emilymary


He doesn't have to spend a dime... you know what? Nevermind. Birthers are pointless to talk to. Birthers never EVER even post any source information, they never actually prove anything anymore. It's just more of an irritant than anything.

Take this post, does the poster here actually prove any of the claims they make?

NO.

Just birther lie after birther lie.

Take for instance the constant lie that Obama has spent millions of dollars covering something up.

I mean can anyone come up with an actual source for this garbage? A real source, not a blog, not a WND Article, but a real source?

They don't because they can't the reason they can't is because there is no proof to any of these stupid allegations, but when you call them on it, they just ignore your post, wait a little while, then post the same exact crap again.



[edit on 9/4/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by Emilymary
The fact is that the USA has a President who will not confirm he is legally entitled to the office.

and here we have a birther lie, he has shown he is eligble.

In fact spends millions stopping the issue coming to court.

and another birther lie - what makes you think Obama has spent millions - please show a source

Who has just placed as a Supreme Court Justice a totally unqualified radical liberal who has been largely instrumental in stopping any court case preceeding which could get discovery of the truth

Yet another birther lie - please name the court cases this so called "unqualified radical liberal" has stopped.

I am amazed that so many Americans have a complete and total disregard for their constitution and law.

Well, you show a total disregard for the constitution and law by posting such garbage here!

Nothing to see here folks, just the standard birther lies!

Where ever Obama was born he was born a dual citizen. The state department now acknowledges this apparently. So not 'natural born. A citizen - yes, but not natural born. It seems some rather ignorant people can't get their heads around this significant difference under their own constitution.
We know he became an Indonesian citizen and took the name Barry Soetoro.
We know he became a muslim and attended a moslem school.
We know that no evidence has ever been discovered that Barry Soetoro became Barak Obama in any legal sense.
That alone has to raise the question that a man known to be legally Barry Soetoro has been elected to office under a false name. Interestingly he took the oath of office in secret and on what book?.
Your President is, to any unbiassed outsider, an almost certain fraud. If you want him, have him, but of course it means that every piece of legislation, every treaty and every order is also fraudulent. but I guess that is latter day USA. But when it unravels the proverbial stuff will hit the fan.
Like President, like nation. Sordid.
Sad really. Sad.
However all power to those excellent Americans who are battling on a number of fronts to cleanse. revitalise and restore the rule of law to their nation.
It seems a revolution will be needed. Hope not but Good luck.

Originally posted by Emilymary
So not 'natural born. A citizen - yes, but not natural born. It seems some rather ignorant people can't get their heads around this significant difference under their own constitution.

How about you showing us where the constitution states what a "natural born citizen" is....

We know he became an Indonesian citizen

another birther lie, please show us his Indonesian citizenship papers.

We know he became a muslim

No, that is just another birther lie

We know that no evidence has ever been discovered that Barry Soetoro became Barak Obama in any legal sense.

That is the first true thing you have posted! Except he never changed his name officialy to Barry Soetoro....

That alone has to raise the question that a man known to be legally Barry Soetoro has been elected to office under a false name.

another birther lie...

Interestingly he took the oath of office in secret

Yet another lie...

How about posting sources for all your lies....

Interestingly he took the oath of office in secret

A lie?. You claim.
Come on get real. The world!!! saw this.
Next day in an underground room. In private.

The fact you deny this record of fact shows that you are completely disregarding facts and truth, if in this then probably in all your claims.
You are as bogus as the POTUS you are now deliberately falsifying facts to defend.
You are a joke.

reply to post by Emilymary




Here was what everyone saw.

What happened afterward...

Obama retakes oath of office after Roberts' mistake

President Obama retook his oath of office Wednesday after Chief Justice John Roberts flubbed while delivering it at Tuesday's inauguration.

The second oath -- also administered by Roberts -- took place at 7:35 p.m. Wednesday in the White House's Map Room. Roberts asked Obama whether he was ready.

"I am, and we're going to do it very slowly," Obama replied.

The do-over was aimed at dispelling any confusion that might arise from Tuesday's take -- in which "faithfully" was said out of sequence -- and erase any question that Obama is legally the president.

Because birthers were already freaking out over Roberts' screw up. The oath of office isn't some magical incantation that if you screw it up it doesn't work, the fact remains that Obama was indeed sworn in on January 20 legally, but because they didn't want you birthers to have a freaking cow, they did it again to be doubly sure. (They were naive and thought that the lot of you were actually reasonable at that point, instead of now when they just ignore you because they have learned that the lot of you are just insane.)

[edit on 9/4/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by Emilymary
Next day in an underground room.

Oh dear, still you are telling lies!

"The Map Room is a room on the ground floor of the White House,"
en.wikipedia.org...

It appears birthers just cannot stop telling lies!