Astrology, do you believe, or think it’s more lies?

I wish horoscopes came true. Two days ago mine said I was gonna come into a large sum of money, yet I'm still broke.

Astrology has been studied for millennia, and it dates back as far as recorded history. The original Astrologers were priests and scholars, and they were looked up to as doctors and learned men. According to modern speculation, the Three Wise Men of Christian belief were Astrologers! At that time, Astrology was the same science as Astronomy and Psychology, whose modern descendants arose from Astrology.

In ancient times, the Greeks and Romans based their system of gods on what they believed was up in the sky. Zeus, who equates to Jupiter in Roman myth, and the other gods and goddesses were based on the Planets visible to the ancients. Astrology was similarly popular in Babylon and Egypt, and it also rose in the Middle East, India and China.

Source: Dailyrevolution.org
Link: www.dailyrevolution.org...

I neither completely believe, but nor do I find it a lie. Things changed a bit with the status of astrology, when it was learned the Earth is not the center of the universe.

True or not, it can be fascinating at times, when prepared by a knowledgeable astrologer. Sometimes I shrug it off, and other times I can absolutely reel with the amazing accuracy. imo.


eta link.

[edit on 9/2/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

to the OP --->


its a 'Sun Sign' not a Star sign

but in your favor, the position of the musical spheres do have an effect
on our life path... but we as free choice individuals are not locked into a tandem inter-play with these subjective 'horoscope' daily forecasts of our supposed 'destiny' ...

[[Destiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Different...|Destiny in...|Divination of...|Destiny versus...
Destiny refers to a predetermined course of events. It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual. It is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the cosmos.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny ]]


BUT... the "Music-of-the-Spheres"...aka planetary positions, do actually have significance...
but not on the 'day-of-birth' but actually along the 9 month path of your development as a human entity...

so...in my world view... just throw out the Sun Sign Horoscopes of the three months after your actual birth date as those are superperflouous
and have no meaning----- but the amalgam of the 9 months leading up to your delivery date are to be read as a combined forecast...

get what i'm saying...?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by kevinunknown

 

how anyone can believe in astrology is beyond me.

Kinda funny that you don't believe in astrology but you believe in the thoughts of those presented in the video you posted.

Their words "makes" sense to you, don't they? Well, there might be possibility that astrology, religions and other things that normal, healthy and somewhat intelligent being would regard as nonesense, makes sense to someone.

Maybe one shouldn't believe anything or anyone.

I know that by "astrology" you probably meant the dogma usually presented, including horoscopes, sunsigns, birth charts and such. Yes, all that is probably nonesense, or ad-hoc interpretation of something very complex. While it may seem far fetched, I think it may be possible that all the radiation and other possible forces emanating from celestial object may have effect on us humans, our tissues and so on. But it evades me how the moment of birth can affect ones personality, as the stars are pretty much same to everyone - perhaps through alignments and such. If they affect at all

Again, need to end the post in words: I really don't know.

-v

[edit on 3-9-2010 by v01i0]

Thanks for the replies guys,

As some of you can probably tell this is not one of my strong subject, i actually know very little about it other than what i read every day. I have read all your replies and found them all to be very informative. I personally believe that it is impossible to predict the future in anyway so I still think that astrology is just a load of BS. All the same though thanks for talking the time to reply.

If astrology of any kind worked how could we explain twins having different experiences?

Astrology is offensive for this reason alone: it's a close cousin to racism. It judges people not on who they are as individuals but how they were when they were born.

Astrology makes us say things like "The stars say I won't have a good relationship with Leos". Now, insert your favorite or worst racial epithet in place of "Leo".

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Obviously it depends by the person who uses astrology. If this person uses astrology in a racist way, that person is completely stupid.
Astrology doesn't works in that way, the real one.

In every person's chart there are almost always more than 5 signs, so, no one can actually decide which sign will agree with.

Astrology in reality is more near to psychology and philosophy, its a different belief, that's it.

The real astrology is not in the magazines, is in the books...And the sidereal one is the most precise.

Try reading your chart and you will see...
Also, inform yourself about the movements of the planets.
When Chiron became retrograde this year, Deepwater disaster happened on same day.
November 26 2008 attacks in India begun in the same moment Pluto changed sign.

Astrology has turned into something it was not, thousands of years ago.

First, Astrology thousands of years ago was not based on a fixed wheel that never changed...but the cosmos were observed for what they really were. Some did try to make predictions with the cosmos, but I believe the practice mainly was to seek reflections of a persons path. Not so much to look for future events, but look at past events and see if there was a reflection of that event somehow with the cosmos.

I also think the cosmos are more like a mechanic mechanism. As the Earth wobbles, and tilts, and moves around the Sun, while the Sun moves around the galactic center....its like a series of gears working and all forms of energy are connected to eachother. If the mechanics of ones spheres positions are misunderstood (through bad information) its possible that persons inner compass will seem 'off'. I believe that the energies of the spheres are not so much for traits and attributes, forming us to be who we are and what we do.....but more so like anything of nature, its there to be used, if we feel in need of it.

Its s personal path of seeking....just like no one can tell you what God really is, no one can really tell you what each sphere means to you on a deeper personal level.

I think Astrology (the modern form today ) is very watered down and is too much about horoscopes and traits of signs. Plus....with a fixed wheel (tropical) only 20% of the signs match up todays positions of the Sun. Sidereal is ok...but it still like tropical does not acknowledge that each space of each constellation is NOT the same size and they both ignore that the Sun passes through Ophiuchus, a extra sign. There is a man in Japan who is actually using a 13 sign zodiac and I have taken to this practice as well, have a thread on ATS offering positions. I use a wheel that reflects what a person can observe in the sky, not a made up wheel that does not reflect the true sky. I dont give predictions or readings, but encourage people to step out on their own and not lean on another for what THEIR path is for them.

The fixed wheel became used a little under 2000 years ago and has not changed much since. People think they are using some ancient practice, when many ancients did not use a fixed wheel but used true observations (which would be closer to astronomy).

The basic reasons for the imaginary equal amounts of space for each sign is convenience to make a simple wheel. When it came to Ophiuchus, it was noted 13 signs didnt fit nicely into a wheel, so the flip of the coin was between Ophiuchus and Scorpio, Scorpio won. Astrologist say this shouldnt matter because Scorpio and Ophiuchus have similar traits...I would disagree that it does matter if you really are going to claim there is something to cosmic energies.

I think we are all born into cycles, I think the constellations are archetypes of man showing alot of history about us. We are of all these archetypes, not just one. One may resonate with you more so then others, and it may not be your sign your Sun was in according to astrology or astronomy. If we limit ourselves to one sign, we can not take leaps. If we look at them all, see what things we need to work on in each sign, we can take leaps in our path.

Someone may sense a particular energy from Mars, in a personal way. Someone else may sense a different energy from Mars, in their own personal observations. If we await someone else or book to tell us what things mean for us on a deeper level (we are very known for doing this) then we limit ourselves to being here as a individual who is able to seek personal paths, within.

You can go to an astrology site right now and likely will find them saying Mars and Venus are in Libra....Uranus and Jupiter in Aries....the Sun in Virgo.

If you were to observe the true night sky (and day sky) the Sun is not in Virgo...Mars and Venus are not in Libra....Uranus and Jupiter are not in Aries.

Many do not realize this...and they place faith in the positions given by astrology using an imaginary wheel that does not represent our true sky.

I say if you want to learn about the energy of the cosmos, you must seek this path in a personal way instead of through someone else, you must step out and observe often the cosmos and energies (observer makes all the difference of how particles/waves behave), and you need to use astronomy which follows the changing sky, from Earths perspective.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 3-9-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Here is a wheel that has 3 wheels in 1.

You have tropical on the inside,Sidereal in the middle wheel, and astronomical wheel on the outside.

You can take an astrology sign on tropical...if you know the degree at which astrology tells you the Sun was at on your birth, mark the tropical wheel....then make a straight line (aligned with the center of the wheels) through the other 2 wheels to find your sidereal sign as well as astronomical sign.

The astronomical is the true reflection of our sky. It includes Ophiuchus and it gives credit to the fact each sign is not of equal amounts of space. Example is the Sun is only in Scorpio 6 days out of the year, not truly able to represent a entire month of the Sun's time.

You can observe these wheels and notice the differences....




Another conflict between astrology and astronomy is the starting of ages and ending of ages.

When it comes to traits of the zodiac.. they seem pretty accurate but daily horoscopes are nothing but garbage. I have yet to be impressed by someone's horoscope predictions, however as I said... people often strongly reflect the traits of the sign they were born under.

Originally posted by Zagari
Astrology in reality is more near to psychology and philosophy, its a different belief, that's it.

That much I agree with. "Real astrology" can't hold any more water than newspaper astrology. As I said, twins have different experiences and so do people born on the same day at the same time but in different parts of the world.

Exactly what forces come into play to make such predictions seem real? The gravity of distant planets and stars? The gravity of the moon, which is much closer than any planet, exerts 30,000 times less force than that of a pillow on one's head. If it is planetary gravity or even some other force, what exactly is the mechanism that determines predictability of one's behavior, giving someone insight into someone else's actions, negating their free will?

reply to post by Thermo Klein


i go there also, my story is similar to yours

I did not believe before in astrology, but now i see there is something indeed to it, but unfortunately, like many aspects of our current civilization there are many snake-oil sellers. These people with obvious "evil intent" spoil it for others that are searching for truths and see these yahoos for what they are, but then dismiss the small truth the evil doers were taking advantage of in order to "sell" their wares to the simple minded.

astro.com is worth checking out. I encourage ATSers to play around with the free charts and stuff. Im sure you will be surprised by what you read.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by Le Colonel]

its not so much evolution
as adaptation to the enviroment

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


There isn't anything great about that video. It's a crappy piece of hubris and self-righteous indignation and their arguments contain lots of holes.

Most real astrologers know that real astrology isn't what you read in the newspaper next to the weather section. Newspapers and hotline services provide a disclaimer that it's for "entertainment purposes only." It's not a full-on science, rather an "art" with a body of knowledge, similar to how a painter uses certain principles when creating a landscape.

I used to do relationship astrology until I got tired of trying to keep up with the transits. I'm not a hardcore practitioner, but I'm usually skeptical of people who make earnest efforts to invalid it. I've been able to predict the future a few times, but the practice of astrology, like most of the sciences, does NOT exist for the purpose of predicting the future, or for improving the condition of mankind.

If you want something more accurate than the newspaper, try www.astroadvice.com...

I believe our fundamental understanding of what astrology IS is completely flawed. A superficial examination of astrology would show it is a complete fraud, but that's the issue: Superficial.

If you take astrology at face value, it can't possibly be true if for no other reason than the precession of the equinoxes over the last few thousand years since the signs were established makes the signs several signs off. Aries is no longer in Aries, so to speak. That's what superficial detractors of astrology frequently use to debunk the system. Take this along with the idea that somehow Mars can "influence" your behavior, and equally absurd notion, and you have the basis to blow astrology off as so much hokum.

If you take astrology as a method of symbolism, this throws a whole new light on the subject. Carl Jung, no light weight, wrote a book called "Synchronicity" which attempted to tackle the issue. His idea was that things are related to each other not only by cause and effect, but by their relationship at a moment in time. The fact is (and this is not in much dispute) the stars and planets were in a unique pattern when you were born. Could that unique pattern be "data mined" in a way that could show how and what you are? It's not that planets' positions CAUSE your behavior, more that they reflect it.

In other words, if you had the wherewithall, you could create a system based on the grease rivulets in frying pans. It's just that we don't have the computing power available to discover those relationships. So if you look at astrology as simply a method to focus your energies on the issues at hand, this is a far cry from saying Mars in the first house makes you appear warlike.

I have to say that I am an absolutely perfect example of a Gemini with Leo rising and a Moon in Pisces. Everything about me and what I have done fits that astrological stereotype perfectly, no question. Even this is a rather quick superficial analysis, but you're never going to get even this amount of depth from a newspaper daily horoscope.

So, the point is that if you are basing your critical assessment of astrology based on newspaper horoscopes, you are not really dealing with astrology at all. That would be like assessing the state of dance in the world today by watching "Dancing with the Stars," no pun intended. That's also true of someone "randomizing" a couple of elements in order to prove astrology false.

If you look into this issue in depth, you will find that some statistical studies have been done which show some correlations that are difficult to explain away. It's been decades since I studied astrology, so I cannot possibly provide more detailed references, but as I remember some studies do correlate occupation and astrological sign well beyond chance.

Astrology in depth is much more complex than its detractors would have you believe. There's a lot more to it than the idea of planets zapping you with some kind of energy. If you actually can cast a chart manually, you at least have the mathematical knowledge to begin discussing the subject. But if you are simply dismissing astrology because of what you read in the daily National Enquirer, that's really no criticism at all. It's as superficial as the predictions you are reading

Astronomy Yes- Astrology per today-NO, Ancient Astrology yes- wich is a 40\60 differ between science and astrological understanding. A very advanced topic wich is relative too how the earth,stars ect worked at that time.

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[edit on 6-9-2010 by Archirvion]

the bible says there are those wo can read the starts, and i must admit i believe that energies might be aligned certain ways to cause or read certian things but......most are just cold reads....

Because astrology is far more complicated then just a sign, or star sign.
And people who know it have been studying the different planets, and different signs for some time.

I never bought it till I had a friend who was involved deeply in it. She was so proficient that I would see her in action. She could not know you, talk to you for like 3 mintues, and peg your birthday. it was not a parlour trick, she just knew it so much that she understood personalities down to a few days, and she woudl shock people when she woudl gues their birthday to within about 3 days. I would see her do this over and over again, without having any information about that person.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Because astrology is far more complicated then just a sign, or star sign.
And people who know it have been studying the different planets, and different signs for some time.

I never bought it till I had a friend who was involved deeply in it. She was so proficient that I would see her in action. She could not know you, talk to you for like 3 mintues, and peg your birthday. it was not a parlour trick, she just knew it so much that she understood personalities down to a few days, and she woudl shock people when she woudl gues their birthday to within about 3 days. I would see her do this over and over again, without having any information about that person.

I had this happen to me, too. The thing is, at the time I thought I was a Taurus, based on those superficial nespaper columns. I hadn't really studied it at the time and the woman said, "You're a Gemini." I said, "I thought I was a Taurus," so she did a quick bunch of math, and sure enough--Gemini by six hours! Parlor trick? If you say so, but it was pretty startling.

Once again, this just shows how superficial most people's uncderstanding of astrology is. One interesting book on this subject is "The Case for Astrology" by John Anthony West. It is dated now, but still a good read.