chemtrails : aerosol spraying & toxic fuel exhaust

reply to post by C-JEAN


Thanks for that link I haven't seen that thread before

reply to post by weedwhacker


I dont know if thats enough to say that all of carnicon's website is full of hoax. There are so many other people involved in the 'investigating' if you would call it that, and yes there are people who are trying to con seemingly everywhere, but how does that make everything null. Plus we dont know what classified and secret technologies really exist and what humans are really capable of on this planet, so to say for that reason some things are impossible is still an opinion too.



[edit on 5-9-2010 by orazio]

Originally posted by orazio
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I said contrails often disperse and disappear, because I have observed this, when I look up in the sky and watch a plane in the upper atmosphere, - most of the time I can observe a contrail that forms behind the plane but eventually fades away after a while. I have also seen contrails last for a long time and seem to create cirrus clouds. That can be easily mistaken for something like dust or aerosol being blown in the wind and of course its a grey area.e Condensation trails are essentially H2O so there should be no metallic particles or dust particles, or anything like bacteria forming within the contrail, etc. Who is to say that under conditions contrail and chemtrails can't look very similar? Maybe.

How can you tell the difference between chemtrails and contrails just by observing them from the ground?

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by orazio
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I said contrails often disperse and disappear, because I have observed this, when I look up in the sky and watch a plane in the upper atmosphere, - most of the time I can observe a contrail that forms behind the plane but eventually fades away after a while. I have also seen contrails last for a long time and seem to create cirrus clouds. That can be easily mistaken for something like dust or aerosol being blown in the wind and of course its a grey area.e Condensation trails are essentially H2O so there should be no metallic particles or dust particles, or anything like bacteria forming within the contrail, etc. Who is to say that under conditions contrail and chemtrails can't look very similar? Maybe.

How can you tell the difference between chemtrails and contrails just by observing them from the ground?

That is the point i also was trying to make, because its possible that the only way to tell the difference without estimation is to examine what its contents are.
Whether it is water vapor/clouds or if there is something that should not be in the atmosphere like that, such as aluminum.

Originally posted by orazio

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by orazio
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I said contrails often disperse and disappear, because I have observed this, when I look up in the sky and watch a plane in the upper atmosphere, - most of the time I can observe a contrail that forms behind the plane but eventually fades away after a while. I have also seen contrails last for a long time and seem to create cirrus clouds. That can be easily mistaken for something like dust or aerosol being blown in the wind and of course its a grey area.e Condensation trails are essentially H2O so there should be no metallic particles or dust particles, or anything like bacteria forming within the contrail, etc. Who is to say that under conditions contrail and chemtrails can't look very similar? Maybe.

How can you tell the difference between chemtrails and contrails just by observing them from the ground?

That is the point i also was trying to make, because its possible that the only way to tell the difference without estimation is to examine what its contents are.
Whether it is water vapor/clouds or if there is something that should not be in the atmosphere like that, such as aluminum.

Well, you seem to be saying in the previous statement that you can see a difference between the two.

Im not sure how much this relates with the thread, but i just have a question about chemtrails. i live in Savannah, GA, im sitting outside on my porch right now watching a yellow helicopter flying low going back and forth over the city spraying something behind it. iv just watched it make three passes over Savannah's Historic district in the last 15 minuets, and i can still hear it making passes. whatever it is spraying is not visible for long, but i can see it disperse into the air for a minuet or so after the helicopter has passed. it started around 7:30 pm. do helicopters spray chemtrails? what could it be spraying? i have lived here for a while now, and have never seen this before.

reply to post by TheSplitSecondSummer


That's not all that uncommon, when municipalities have some sort of infestation.

Most likely it's a pesticide of some sort. Surprised it wasn't announced in the media beforehand....usually these programs are.

Any news of mosquitos this summer being especially bad? Other insects? Or, any pests that affect trees or other plants??

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by orazio

 

Wrong. You have been suckered in by the "chemtrail" HOAXists.

You have photographs of normal CONtrails. They consist of ICE crystals, mostly. (Since they are directly from the engines' exhaust, of course they also contain a certain amount OF that exahust, from the gases that result form burning of fossil fuels).

You are likely getting MORE pollution from just walking down a street busy with automobiles and trucks.

AND....any pollution that consists of "heavy" metals in the environment?

ALL from ground-based sources. Factories thqat pollute, for example.

EVEN Cremetoria!!! (Mercury in cadaver's teeth, enters the atmosphere after being burned....)

There are MANY sources, right here on the ground, and often next door.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, I just wrote THIS POST today --- could be useful in your investigation, as it provides facts, not suppositions.







[edit on 2 September 2010 by weedwhacker]

Have you seen this yet?



...interesting...still think chemtrails are a hoax? Geo-Engineering is real IMHO.

reply to post by AutOmatIc

Have you seen this yet?

Yes. G. Edward Griffin is an idiot, on this topic. Uneducated in the field, and unqualified to make such claims.

Here is what he wrote, in July 2004:

I cannot claim that any of the Internet sources of information on this topic are totally reliable. However, based on my own observations of these sky trails, it is my opinion that they are not ice crystals from contrails. Contrails can be seen almost every day, and they are characterized by short, narrow plumes that rapidly dissipate about a half-mile behind the planes. I have captured numerous video shots of these little plumes as they follow their planes across the sky. Chemtrails, however, are very different. They billow from horizon to horizon and gradually feather out to fill the entire sky with haze that lingers all day and well into the night where they can be seen still filtering light from the moon. It is amazing to me how so many people fail to discern the obvious difference between these two types of formations.

educate-yourself.org...

Six years on, and he STILL isn't any better educated, not if he's still promoting that film. OR, he has a differnt motive?

He has a long, long history of other outlandish "pet theories"...he is a film maker, and wants to make MONEY. He has seen this fad, the so-called "chemtrails", and recognized it as a potential profit pipeline.

As to that paragraph above: Where he writes "Contrails can be seen almost every day, and they are characterized by short, narrow plumes that rapidly dissipate about a half-mile behind the planes." he shows his ignorance regarding both the various atmospheric conditions that are conducive to contrial (and CLOUD) formation, AND the increasing numbers of modern jet airliners whose engines are of the "High Bypass Fan" design (unlike older turbojets, and the contrails generally made behind those airplanes, these engines use the big fan in front, for the major power to provide thrust, and not jsut the exhaust forces. This provides a "blanket", in a cone shape, of cooler air to insulate the hot, central exhaust gases, and allow the contrails to last longer).

There are numerous examples of World War II bombers...piston-engined airplanes making contrails in the 1940s!!! Again, for similar reasons as the High-Bypass fanjets do today. Anyone who would bother to research a bit more will learn these facts. Keep in mind that Mother Nature can make clouds all by herself, too. The "lingering" contrials, once made by airplanes, only tend to stay around IF other clouds happen to be forming too....hence, people misunderstand. They don't know the science.


What has happened is, as a side note to the climate debate (so called "Global Warming"....or, "Cooling", depends on your position) there HAVE been many, many suggestions being made, about what to do IF it should ever be deemed necessary...and WHAT is possible, and feasible, for Humans to achieve, in the realm of climate modification/repair or whatever.

Still, these are only hypotheses, and many ideas are being discussed, before any consensus will be made.

What is terribly sad is the mis-identification (from ignorance) of normal contrails, the science of meteorology, and the "Chicken Little" syndrome of "the sky is falling" type of hysteria that has been fanned from that basic ignorance. It is evident quite often, right here on ATS boards.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Thanks for that, it is interesting to see various opinions on the subject. And yes money can be a quite strong motivator.
So can war, and the U.S. Government has never "sprayed" anyone....yea right:

Monsanto Agent Orange and the U.S. Government

reply to post by AutOmatIc


Agent Orange, again??? (yawn).

Yes, it was bad. You DO know it's original purpose, though...right? (Psst: "defoliant")

Ya know, lots of things have been sprayed since the invention of the airplane. Hardly much of a secret. Some things, they thought were "safe"...ever heard of DDT? Pesticides still are sprayed, even today, on crops.

It is specialized, and local and specific.

Just as AO was, in 'Nam.

What is vastly, vastly different here, when bringing up AO and cropdusting, to name two....is the ALTITUDE that those activities are conducted from.

....compared to NORMAL jet airliners overhead at between 30,000 to 40,000 feet, making what are, essentially CIRRUS CLOUDS. Ice crystals, with a smattering of air pollution --- since they ARE internal combustioon fossil-fuel burnign engines --- mixed in. So, your "chemtrails" are the trace hydrocarbons that result from burning kerosene. Oh, and perhaps some of the engine's lubricating oils might get burned up too....gee, that semi tractor-trailer (or lorry) barreling down the highway is just as bad (or worse). Worse, because its exhaust fumes are already DOWN here, close to the ground. Not six to eight miles above your heads, being carried by a strong breeze to who knows where!

there's a pdf & over 100 pages of info & research on aerosol spraying apparently for quelling climate change which was presented to congress & the president in 2001.. anthropogenic aerosols, radiative forcing of the atmosphere, experimentation for 20 years now. so we know that there are many programs using aerosol because this (US climate change program, science & technology council, Nasa) aren't the only ones doing research and experimentation

Atmospheric Aerosol Properties and Climate Impacts
Synthesis and Assessment Product 2.3
Report by the U.S. Climate Change Science Program
and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research
This document, part of the Synthesis and Assessment Products described in the U.S. Climate Change Science Program (CCSP) Strategic Plan, was prepared in accordance with Section 515 of the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2001 (Public Law 106-554) and the information quality act guidelines issued by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration pursuant to Section 515. The CCSP Interagency Committee relies on National Aeronautics and Space Administration certifications regarding compliance with Section 515 and Agency guidelines as the basis for determining that this product conforms with Section 515. For purposes of compliance with Section 515, this CCSP Synthesis and Assessment Product is an “interpreted product” as that term is used in National Aeronautics and Space Administration guidelines and is classified as “highly influential”. This document does not express any regulatory policies of the United States or any of its agencies, or provides recommendations for regulatory

reply to post by orazio


No....you aren't reading this information correctly, and are misunderstanding the scientific meaning of certain terms:

....info & research on aerosol spraying apparently for quelling climate change which was presented to congress & the president in 2001.. anthropogenic aerosols, radiative forcing of the atmosphere, experimentation for 20 years now. so we know that there are many programs using aerosols....

NO, go read again. NONE of the documents say anything at all about intentional "aerosol spraying" by direct intervention. (**) You (and many others) are reading into it, altering the intent and meaning, by assigning it intent, when in fact, it is a PASSIVE STUDY of already occurring cases of "aerosols" that occur both naturally, and by human technological activities (In other words.....Air Pollution).

Try to read it all again, very carefully, with understanding this time. "radiative forcing" of the atmosphere ALSO is describing the effects of those aerosols, and THAT is what's being studied. In order to better understand the engtire question of "Global Warming", and whether it IS, or IS NOT something of valid concern.

~~~~~~~~
PS to add (**): By that I mean, NOT as suggested by so many of the so-called "chemtrail" fear-mongering websites that infest the Web. Any "spraying" that is done (not secretly) involve such things as crop-dusting, "cloud seeding" (infrequently) and such. Things that have been going on for decades, not long after the invention of the airplane.

My back hurts, I bet it is the government spraying me with toxic stuff. I wonder why they would want to poison me. I guess they want a smaller population that is angry for some reason. Does my logic fail?

Well it's is beyond sick what they are doing to the environment and the people. It is more than criminal & treason. it's not just conspiracies, there are chemicals & heavy metals that somehow are being injected into our environments, be it the atmosphere and air, the waters, the lands.. and of course our own bodies.. ALL cancer is the result of our own making (man-made!)

www.911weknow.com...

Here is a video of a tanker spraying aerosols at high altitude, from a behind view up close. It shows the aerosol nossles being turned on and off as well, so it's not just water vapor or else it would be more naturally consistent.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by orazio


Good afternoon orazio,

The video provided in your link has already been proven to be a hoax.

The above video comes from TankerEnemy, an Italian chemtrail proponent. It very clearly shows aerodynamic contrails coming from the wings of a KC-10. The pilots on the cockpit are heard joking about it being “chemtrails”. TankerEnemy, not being a native english speaker, misses this and thinks they are being serious. He then goes on to “analyze” the video, and points to the flap mechanisms as being nozzels

The original video was posted by USAFFEKC1O as a joke. He later updated the description to read:

USAFFEKC1O | July 17, 2010

It was fun playing with all the chemtrailers but you guys are way to gullible!!

You guys who keep saying “TOO LATE” need to think before you open your mouth…I don’t care that the videos are still out there and going viral. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE PRANK!!!! …for all of you chemtrail idiots to get all excited as if these videos are the holy grail of chemtrail videos and for me and my friends to laugh at you while you spread them. The more passionate you guys are about this, the more entertaining it is for those of us who live in the real world. Keep on spreading!!

Source

Hope this clears some things up for you

reply to post by ZombieJesus


THank you for that link, so there is obviously so much confusion about this matter of air pollution.. I read studies done in california that show evidence of high levels of aluminum, barium, strontium and a plethora of heavy metals in various cases.. levels that are IMPOSSIBLE, and are absolutely the result of our own makings. Samples not only collected from rainwater but also mountain run-off. how can this be, well we know that all the cars on our streets and highways using dirty polluting engines are adding poisons to our air.. how about the airplanes? The 'cloud pollutions' coming from air planes (equal to smog from our cars, only at ground level unless it is really cold we don't see the 'emissions' visibly), what about the methods of obtaining fuel and resources? It is totally wreckless and destructive - all in the name of a short-lived "high" on greed or wealth -- very sad, because our health is truly our greatest wealth.
There are still many unanswered questions even though there are knowledgeable people to point out the rights and wrongs.. in the end, something is polluting our air, water and land. And it is beyond the 'choices and actions' of everyday people.. something must be done to expose the truth and educate the truth, and thankfully there are people who are making that effort everyday for themselves and others.
We all know that clean alternative energy and gasoline-combustion alternatives exist and have been suppressed for at least 70 years. It's absurd but we know it is a deeply run umbrella of agendas, that goes to the root of our govern-ment & societal structure.... greed, profit, power, it is all under the sun and exposed for all to see if they so choose to investigate.. only a matter of time + energy before it all comes out to the final judgment.

What ever happened to Allseeingeye?
He originally broke the story about patented chemtrails

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
What ever happened to Allseeingeye?
He originally broke the story about patented chemtrails

REbump
Where is he?

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


Last post, 12 August 2010.

However, bit of a stretch, that claim, about "exposing" any "chemtrail" patents.

The "patents" prove nothing, other than someone had an idea, and decided to make the effort to get it "patented" first, before someone else did. An awarded patent does NOT mean anything is actually being built, or in use.

A bit of Internet searching, on "patents", will show anyone why this is the case.