a good example of how we succumb to religion.

ok i know am going to get bashed for this ,but please read my words before you dog me to hard.

first i am a man who is stuck ..i am stuck between believing their might be a god and that their might not be . i am on a constant search for truth .i do not know if ill ever find it , but i will not give up !


ok now i came across this video ,its a video about North Korea , but the point i make has nothing to do with North Korea , the video is lengthy ,but it does not take long for you to see what i see ...hopefully

now when you watch the video keep in mind religion ,keep in mind every religion and how they came to be , i believe the video is fifty somthing minutes in that time i believe you will have a greater understanding of how religion came to be .i shal not spoil it for you ,and i hope it enlightens you a bit as it did me

and even after watching this i am still holding onto what little faith i have



www.youtube.com...


well heck i might as well tell people my view ,just in case they miss it
my point here is to show how some one can become a worshiped figure and it it is not stoped that person could possibly can turn into a religious icon
and i am using Nrorth Korea as an Example , with the help of propaganda this man Kim Jong il has grow do be a god to the North Korean People in just over fifty years

now think about how a person can grow to this status in just over 3000 years without propaganda

many thanks

Nephi

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Nephi1337]

[edit on 31-8-2010 by Nephi1337]

I'm going through the same thing as you.
I've been the exact same things as you.

I didn't watch it but then, I fell I don't need to. It won't be changing my mind anytime soon. My advice to you? If you want to discover if there is a God then that must come from within, you won't find the answer on any forum, website, or youtube video. These things change like fashion, and it may be cool to try on new clothes and wear them around for a little while, however it is someone else's fad. Its a never ending cycle.

reply to post by Nephi1337


Succumb to religion? Religion is not the problem. It doesn't make anyone do anything that was not already at least a little bit in their nature to do. Scapegoating religion for actions done by humanity is silly at best and fixes nothing.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
I didn't watch it but then, I fell I don't need to. It won't be changing my mind anytime soon. My advice to you? If you want to discover if there is a God then that must come from within, you won't find the answer on any forum, website, or youtube video. These things change like fashion, and it may be cool to try on new clothes and wear them around for a little while, however it is someone else's fad. Its a never ending cycle.

i do know this to be true my good man ,also i edited my post if you want to go an read it again then you will see what i am talking about

many thanks


Nephi

reply to post by Nephi1337


Nephi, you will never succumb to religion so long as you don't get caught between whats right and whats wrong....Right is free will. Wrong is when someone tells you that you should believe something and not question it. You are human and should be questioning things, especially in this day and age.
Stand up and have a voice.

reply to post by Nephi1337

The problem is religion itself! believe me or you are wrong! that is religion! be part of our group wrong wrong wrong! God told us what to do and how to be! Jesus never said join this group or that group! fallow the laws of god the ten commandments,and have faith in God and you will be fine! everything else has been condensed and interpreted till it has been corrupted to a point it can confuse you to death,spiritual death that is! it means nothing in your life what happened to the Jew's or who beget who,
concentrate on the laws and commandments and pray with faith and you win! then you can learn why God sent Jesus! if YOU read the bible somethings jump out at you and you go wow,and some thing make no sense to you at all! God is not the author of confusion you will know what you need to know! Don't take my word for it read it for your self and burn this video thats made to confuse you!

The reason for all this is that there is a "God instinct" in the human mind. And it finds expression in everyone, from the most devout fundamentalist to the most militant atheist. It is an instinct which like any other requires satisfaction for long-term health.

For an example of what it can do in an atheistic world, it is at the bottom of the obsession with ideologies of modern times, like communism, socialism, devout capitalism, environmentalism, humanism, futurism, etc. A phenomenon we didn't often see until religion became less important.

The ancient Egyptians though the Pharaoh was a god. After the Roman pagan gods started being ridiculed, but before Christianity took root, Rome had what is known as the imperial cult.

It is in our nature to deify something. And we will do it, against our own will if we have to. The Christian interpretation of this would probably be that we must direct this nature to its proper destination; anything else is idolatry. The atheistic interpretation might be that it is part of an instinct-complex evolved to promote group cohesion, probably related to alpha-male dynamics. (And of course both could be right.)

In short, this doesn't prove or disprove religion. If it's evidence of anything at all, it's that we have a religious instinct in us that demands fulfillment.

A great book in the same vein is Jung's short The Undiscovered Self. (I feel like Jung's posthumous agent lately, but it's what I always do when I'm reading stuff I like and I happen to have been reading a lot of Jung lately.)



[edit on 31-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

Originally posted by slinger
reply to post by Nephi1337

 

The problem is religion itself! believe me or you are wrong! that is religion! be part of our group wrong wrong wrong! God told us what to do and how to be! Jesus never said join this group or that group! fallow the laws of god the ten commandments,and have faith in God and you will be fine! everything else has been condensed and interpreted till it has been corrupted to a point it can confuse you to death,spiritual death that is! it means nothing in your life what happened to the Jew's or who beget who,
concentrate on the laws and commandments and pray with faith and you win! then you can learn why God sent Jesus! if YOU read the bible somethings jump out at you and you go wow,and some thing make no sense to you at all! God is not the author of confusion you will know what you need to know! Don't take my word for it read it for your self and burn this video thats made to confuse you!

well i see the care in your words ,but sadly you have not seen what i was talking about , have you watched the video ?

thank you for your post

Nephi

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
The reason for all this is that there is a "God instinct" in the human mind. And it finds expression in everyone, from the most devout fundamentalist to the most militant atheist. It is an instinct which like any other requires satisfaction for long-term health.

For an example of what it can do in an atheistic world, it is at the bottom of the obsession with ideologies of modern times, like communism, socialism, devout capitalism, environmentalism, humanism, futurism, etc. A phenomenon we didn't often see until religion became less important.

The ancient Egyptians though the Pharaoh was a god. After the Roman pagan gods started being ridiculed, but before Christianity took root, Rome had what is known as the imperial cult.

It is in our nature to deify something. And we will do it, against our own will if we have to. The Christian interpretation of this would probably be that we must direct this nature to its proper destination; anything else is idolatry. The atheistic interpretation might be that it is part of an instinct-complex evolved to promote group cohesion, probably related to alpha-male dynamics. (And of course both could be right.)

In short, this doesn't prove or disprove religion. If it's evidence of anything at all, it's that we have a religious instinct in us that demands fulfillment.

A great book in the same vein is Jung's short The Undiscovered Self. (I feel like Jung's posthumous agent lately, but it's what I always do when I'm reading stuff I like and I happen to have been reading a lot of Jung lately.)



[edit on 31-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

sure one might not say not proves anything ,but it does certanly gives a good understanding as to how famous religious figures of the past might have turnd out they way they have ,

like i satated i am still trying to figure it all out myself ,and why is it that we have the natural God instinct ?

I don't have the technical possibility of watching the video. But I believe, I can relate to the topic anyway.

NewlyAwakened has some very good points. Human psychology contains a strong element of 'need-to-know', where the white spots on 'the map' is filled with more or less justified speculations. It's also even possible to believe, that mankind has a potential for finding approximate, 'better' 'truth'; but this is an option not everybody use.

In the case of religion, some individuals occasionally use their optional potential and experience some 'more true' reality directly (and many more fake such an experience). To evaluate such claims searchers of 'truth' must understand the implications of what they are told, and, if possible, try this experience themselves.

Most disciples of masters, gurus, messiases etc. are simply making the best (or most manipulative) interpretations they can, without really understanding much, and the outcome is the quarrelsome, doctrinal market of organised religion.

(It's reasonable to consider political ideologies and 'scientism' on similar, but not completely identical lines).

It's a long and difficult journey for the individual to find some solid basics to start from, but it is possible. Many suggestions have been made on how to do this. My own bid is a: 'Comparative multiple-perspectives' approach. Meaning you try different systems and different methodologies, compare them, synthetize them and harmonize them, All without the cobwebs of prefixed doctrines.

This sounds very abstract, but that's just my stilted language. The real problem is the initial 'existential emptiness' such a journey requires. Very few people can live in an ideological vacum for long, but we need to clean up the biases, before a possible 'truth' can emerge.

So look forward to a period of climbing on the walls or going into 'chapel perilous'. Not for purposes of 'spiritual cleaning' or masochistic notions of 'original sin', but simply because mankind doesn't do well without straws to cling to.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by bogomil]

For those who question their belief, why not try and read Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion. Now I'm sure I will get flamed from every direction, but if you really want to question your faith you have to ask the tough questions not just the convenient ones.

What harm can it do?

Re: Woodwardjnr

Sure. My own suggestion of a method for finding answers is inclusive, not exclusive.

Most atheism as well as most theism is doctrinal and exclusive, and while the agnostics have something speaking for them, it's often a case of: "I don't care".

So, .. understand the various perspectives first, including Dawkins.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by Nephi1337

 

Nephi, you will never succumb to religion so long as you don't get caught between whats right and whats wrong....Right is free will. Wrong is when someone tells you that you should believe something and not question it. You are human and should be questioning things, especially in this day and age.
Stand up and have a voice.

"Wrong" is also when people tell you NOT to believe in something.

Find your own answers, and do NOT find them here.
Questions about Religion should be directed to real people that actually have some experience and answers. Not people who oppose Religion.

And, contrary to what you may have read in here, there are a lot of logical answers for religious questions.

Good luck.

Re: Clinically_Cool

Depends on what you mean with 'religion'.

Doctrinal 'religion' (=secondhand religion) is practically worthless, and often harmful, when used for social engineering.

Experienced 'religion' can be valuable (even when the experience is not ultimatively true), and has normally intrinsic safeguards against misuse. The more you really understand, the better you feel, and correspondingly will the need for 'safety through numbers' (=pushy missioning) diminish.

There's a great difference between offering truth and enforcing it. Something many fundamentalists have a problem about understanding.

i dono i guess i am just seeing , here how people and religion evolved ,to me its like NK is on a fast track i cant tell you where i read this cause its classified but its in a certain section of ATS .and its a thread that will furthur prove my theory on this ,


Many thanks


Nephi!