I Really like CCTV!

So here’s the thing, my local paper the other week ran with a news article about a proposal by our local council to put CCTV cameras up in our town centre which has been plagued with NED’s (explanation at the bottom) for many years. Excellent I thought, my dear old granny can now get out and about after 5pm without the fear of getting mugged or abused by a 12 year old with a drink problem. Or so I thought....

The other day I picked up the other local news paper who have confirmed that the local counsel have decided that when balancing the civil liberties of the towns people with the prevention of crime the instillation of CCTV is not fair on the mostly law abiding people. Ohhh and its also going to save them some money. Further on in the paper there was a letter by Mr. Crocker who has said he is very happy about this “no CCTV in our town” he has wrote.

I totally disagree with this I want CCTV these NED’s are destroying our town with anti-social behaviour. I bet if we put up a nice bit camera they would soon think twice about hanging around the town centre entertaining themselves at the cost of everyone around them. This got me thinking however about CCTV in general.

My attitude is that if you have nothing to hide there should be no problem with having CCTV cameras at the corner of every street. It’s not as if I am going to go and mug anyone, but it would mean that if anyone mugged me the police would know what he looks like and might even turn up in time to stop the mugging. This would also create loads of jobs for the people who install the CCTV and the people who watch the monitors. In short, I really like CCTV, it makes me feel safe to know there is a camera watching my back.

With this in mind it does not take any persuasion form to support other security measures that might be perceived as being a gross breach of our “civil liberties”. So I would have no problem with my DNA and figure prints being held on a national database, along with that of everyone in the country.

It would make crimes allot easier to solve, say for example a girl waking home at night and some twisted individual takes advantage of her and rapes her. Well there is a good chance that the whole thing is caught on CCTV and any DNA or figure prints left behind add to the evidence.

I do of course have some limits. I would not want CCTV in my home, I not support using these crime detection techniques to chase after litter droppers but you get the idea. So dose anyone else on ATS support the expansion of the CCTV networks and the development of a national DNA and figure print database?

PS, A NED (Non-educated delinquent) is a Scottish term for an anti-social youth, they tend to where excessive amounts of sports clothing and Burberry. They’re also famed for drinking BuckFast or buckie.

If you have nothing to hide why would you be opposed to having them in homes, considering lots of crime like domestic abuse occurs in the confines of the home. Likely your taxes already pays for the police forces there, perhaps they should increase patrols in the areas affected by these NEDs, because cameras do nothing to prevent crime from actually happening, they are reactive as opposed to pro-active. Wouldn't it be far better to prevent crimes like the hypothetical rape that you mentioned as opposed to simply making it easier to catch the perpetrator after-the-fact; I'm sure the victims of such crimes would prefer it to never happen in the first place as opposed to simply catching the scum after the damage is already done.

'If you have nothing to hide, you've no need to worry', has to be the worst argument. The noose round your neck slips tighter and tighter in little incremental steps.... And one day it will be you, not the beer guzzling chav who has to worry. Think you could never be public enemy no 1? Think again.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by starchild10]

You have a choice: CCTV on every street corner or get raped by a rapist that we let out of jail after a month-long sentence, or get mugged by a 12 year old who is above the law getting drunk on an easily available drug we have legalized to terrorize you while making safer, more socially friendly drugs illegal to keep you in terror.

This is our final offer. You cannot refuse. We make the laws. We are your Gods.

I live on a road that has CCTV from one end to the other and I'm afraid it does nothing at all to discourage NED's (or Chavs as they are here), they just pull their hoods over their faces and carry on as usual, even if the police come along to disband their little groups they just come back an hour later.
They know that as long as they are under 18 nothing is really going to happen to them.
I had a boy of about 11 throw a 5ft fluorescent tube at me from the top of a stairwell a few months back and neither the police or the local council were interested in the slightest, because it missed me by a few inches and thus wasn't assault.

Mr Unknow, I agree.

CCTV, in public domains, pointing towards public streets/areas, should not be a problem to any citizen who wishes to keep them, and their fellow man safe.

To the member that said the cameras are reactive, not proactive, I will provide you with this story: I fancied myself a "petty thief" for about a year or so as a teenager. I would lift little trinkets at the drug stores and such, I'm sure many others have done the same. I was also very paranoid of getting caught. Each time I considered lifting something, I would scan the store for cameras, more importantly, cameras that would detect me. If there was even one that looked like it MIGHT catch me, I abandoned my plans. I think for people wanting to commit more violent crimes, this would be the same...as far as some young punk being a punk.

CCTV in homes? That is crossing the line and no where near the same thing as in public places. At least here in my country, I have the right to privacy in my home. Plain and simple. An officers beat does not include walking into homes, it includes walking the streets.

Worst case scenario is that the punk doesn't get discouraged, but is caught later. It may not stop the crime, but it gets the criminal caught.

Edit to correct a misspelling (ha) of Mr. Unknown's name



[edit on 8/31/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

u lot are jokes

im a chav !! supposedly i wear expensive gear and smoke weed and yea wen i was younger we used to terrorise people in the street
but if i did somthing to sumone in the street and they didnt like it they chased me and i ran true ill be back in an hour but im not gunna start again

stop expecting the police - goverment to sort out ur little chav problem ther fighting wars and figureing out how to get more money out of u

stop moaning an get on wiv it

reply to post by starchild10


I have to agree with Starchild here. What one person deems worthy of hiding another may not.

For example if I had a stamp collection while at school, or was really into ballet. I wouldn't have told anyone because I would have got a beat down.

Now look at it logically, there is nothing wrong with either pursuit, however social trends deem what is acceptable and what should be the subject of ridicule!

It is our right to keep certain things private. I do not condone anyone doing anything illegal. What I am trying to say is we shouldn't have to tell everyone everything about ourselves, if we don't want to.

reply to post by satnav_c-1


What are you on about?

The problem with 'chavs' is the vast majority of them are underage little gob$h*tes.

So when you challenge them there is very little you can do because they go and cry to their parents or the authorities, and because I am a 'grown up' I get prosecuted. For say, hitting them a well needed slap, after they have thrown a milkshake round my girlfriend.

The issue that Kevin Unknown is raising is a good one because it is similar to my position in the fact that I am becoming LESS tolerant of the 'rehabilitation' and support for these poor unfortunate NED's, feral's and assorted other troublemakers and more concerned with the Apparent lack of punishment for wrong doers !!

More CCTV might (?) act as a deterrent but a greater deterrent would be Punishment commensurate with the crimes and the effects upon innocent people..

In New York a while ago they ran 'ZERO TOLERANCE'...... I wish that was the NORM !!

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

reply to post by satnav_c-1


satnav_c-1

Ha ha U R soo funnee !!



NOT!!!!!!!

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

Click here for more information.

There is a much simpler way to handle this. Make it legal to beat the carp out of the punk kids. Honestly, if a kid thinks they are "grown-up" enough to drink booze, act like a hooligan, and carry on with some stupid machismo attitude, then treat them that way.



[edit on 8-31-2010 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by satnav_c-1


Ahhh yes i forgot the school holidays.....

I can tell by your writing style that you’re yet to finish school, to be honest I will be surprised if you manage that. I am 21, so probably not much old than you are, the “Chav” culture disgusts me, these youths have no respect most of them, and I include you in this, are just little me trying to be big men. I am from Glasgow, I have come across real career criminals, the difference between them and the NED’s is respect and intelligence. Sure they might also be the scum of the earth but they have respect for people. I am talking about a guy who was importing Class A drugs and carrying guns, not the little boys who carry knifes and a bag of weed then run around like they are Pablo Escobar.

You really should be careful because your language on this thread is probably going to get you banned. There is no need to be this disrespectful on a thread, if you disagree with me that fine construct and counterargument then articulately follow it through in a debate about the issue with me. You are in a online community were that is allot more impressive than playground insults that lack any intelligence.

On the issue of the people doing the job rather than the police and government you are clearly living in a dream world. That would lead to a state of anarchy which is just not sustainable it is the first role of government to protect the people they serve and the police are just a tool which they use to meet this obligation. We need laws, the government set the laws, we need the laws enforced and the police enforce. Sure we should all do our bit, however we still need the government and the police to keep us safe.

It is unfortunately true that at times the system does not work like that however a criminal justice system that can at times fail and be inconsistent is better than none. I do not deny there are problem particularly when it comes to the jurisprudence of the law when handing down sentences, we need much tougher custodial punishments for these “people”. I think that the expansion of the CCTV networks and the introduction of a national DNA and figure print data base could help solve these problems. In addition to this I do think that the law needs to be changed radically to allow for harsher sentences however this thread is only about the expansion of the CCTV network and the introduction of a full DNA and figure print data base.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


You hit the nail on the head there Dog.

I don't live over in England, but I don't understand why these punks aren't punished. Either by society or their parents. Shoot...when I was growing up, my mother told each teacher, through highschool, that if I stepped out of line they could give me a smack without fear of a lawsuit. If a stranger did the same thing and I deserved it, you can bet she wouldn't even think of getting the law involved.

Kids need to be put in their place from time to time. We all over stepped our boundaries,it's part of growing up. But once you step over that line you deserve to be pushed back.

(and...don't acknowledge the unfavorable ones...leave them alone and they will leave...if you catch my drift.)

reply to post by rogerstigers


I am going to assume you are serious, although I acknowledge that you could be being sarcastic.

These kids travel in packs, they carry knifes. Long gone are the days when two guys having an argument in a pub would be sorted out with words or a one on one fight outside. Now it’s who has the most mates and who has the biggest knife.

I wouldn’t be supporting this unless i thought it was a necessity

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

I am going to assume you are serious, although I acknowledge that you could be being sarcastic.

These kids travel in packs, they carry knifes. Long gone are the days when two guys having an argument in a pub would be sorted out with words or a one on one fight outside. Now it’s who has the most mates and who has the biggest knife.

I wouldn’t be supporting this unless i thought it was a necessity

Yeah, we have "gangbangers" here that do the same thing. Of course, guns are still legal here, so you are more likely to find yourself facing a gun than a knife.

I hate to say it, but when you are in the jungle, you must think like an animal. So if there packs of heyena's running about, you don't travel alone, or unarmed.

Does the UK ban *any* form of weapon or just firearms? I imagine a morning star could make quite an impression..

ETA: My main point here is that I am no big fan of sacrificing any bit of liberty for security. My security is my concern. Any help is appreciated, but not required.

[edit on 8-31-2010 by rogerstigers]

A NED (Non-educated delinquent) is a Scottish term for an anti-social youth

LMAO this is funny. I was thinking bible preachers and mormons tryna sell their idea lol.

reply to post by rogerstigers


I would rather a radical reform of the criminal justice system over arming everyone, for me that seems very uncivilised and very un-British. I do however understand you point, i just disagree that arming (knifes or guns) everyone is a good idea.

reply to post by Helig


I just thought of a great way to solve the drug war!

Seeing as how many drugs are shot up in bathroom stalls. . . Why not put cameras in every bathroom? I am all for it. I don't use drugs, so I have nothing to hide?