war on terror unwinnable with this idiot running things

im sorry but at the rate we are going the "War on terror" is unwinnable. for every terrorist we kill, 2 more will join the movement. i think what is needed is 1: an evaluation of why we are hated and 2: a reasonable way to make the international community respect us again, and 3: an effective way to deal with extremists that the rest of the world would respect and help us to perform. im sorry, but the repeated bombing of anyone who disagrees with us IS NOT THE ANSWER !!! this has got to stop or there is only one way it will, which would be a catastrophic attack in our own borders. maybe im a wuss, but i think money spent on penicillin and food is better than bombs and ammo, but hey, im just a bleedin heart liberal, so what do i know?

IRAQ: Baghdad is Safer than Washington, DC

June 21, 2004: The anti-government violence in Iraq is causing a annualized death rate of 15 per 100,000 population for terrorist activities alone. That compares to a murder rate in the United States of 5.6 per 100,000. European nations have an average rate of about four per 100,000, while Russia is 20 per 100,000. Some nations are particularly violent. South Africa has a murder rate of 59, and neighboring Namibia is 45. Colombia, in South America, was over 50 a few years ago, but is now down to the 30s because a crackdown on armed militias. The Middle East tends of have low murder rates, with Turkey having a rate of 2.3. Israel also had a rate of 2.3, until the Palestinians began their terrorism campaign in late 2000. The deaths from suicide bombings and other attacks doubled Israel's murder rate to about 4 per 100,000, although that has been coming down in the past year.

But Iraq has become accustomed to a high murder rate. Saddam's police forces were the cause of many murders, and as far back as the 1970s, the official murder rate was 12 per 100,000. The coalition forces and Iraqi security forces have gotten the non-terrorist murder rate down to about five per 100,000. This, combined with the deaths caused by terrorists, produces a rate of about 20 per year. The murder rate in Washington, DC, is over 60 per 100,000.



www.strategypage.com...

Originally posted by sublime4372
1: an evaluation of why we are hated and

Islam teaches the killing of disbelivers. A religion that is taught almost from birth that if taught in just the right way pushes belivers to kill the unbelivers. (Kids grow up brain washed to kill unbelivers and you cannot reason with them or convince them that what they were taught is wrong).

Originally posted by sublime4372
2: a reasonable way to make the international community respect us again, and

Stop the teaching of the parts of Islam that call for violence against unbelivers.

Originally posted by sublime4372
3: an effective way to deal with extremists that the rest of the world would respect and help us to perform. im sorry, but the repeated bombing of anyone who disagrees with us IS NOT THE ANSWER !!!

World wide hard core economic preasure on those nations that do not stop and remove the parts of Islam that teach violence against unbelivers.

Actually by legitimizing insane, sicko people by declaring "war on terror" you have caused an "unwinnable war", because there will always be sickos willing to do the unthinkable. Now we have agrandized these people and more of them are willing to do the "evil" to gain notoriety and publicity of the cause than before we legitimzed them just to be a hero to an evil uncivilized calling. FInally there are just some people born with sick minds that cannot help themselves and should be jailed or thier lives taken.

While Islam is right now the culprit religion that is causing the current insanity I also recognize that sicko's could hijack any religion and do these same things. Right now in history however, it is up to Islamic peoples, and governments to change what is being taught weather by choice or by force.

It could very well happen in human history that some christians could turn the christian religion into the same thing we see with extreemist Islamic terrorists.



I may edit this as I clairify my thoughts.



[edit on 21-6-2004 by Xeven]

No need to clarify.

U.S. Bad. George Bush bad. war bad.

What is it like to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders?

They need to quit teaching the Quran period. Mass brainwashing.

The Koran is not the problem any more then any other religeous book.

With no centralized religeous hierarchy there is no one opinion. Any local Imam or Mullah can instantly raise an army of disaffected youth on his "fatwa."

Al Sadr, Al-Sistani are all able to say what Islam stands for.

End the war? Three things...

1. Democracy or a facimile so they have a choice.
2. Jobs so they have reason to live other then killing infidels.
3. Squash the voices that encourage killing.

Funny.. that sounds like what Bush is doing.

The war on terror is unwinnable because of Bush. He started it, both Bushes did. I say we impeach the damn president, take our troops out of Iraq, and have him arrested for commiting things like this!

Chill out or it'll have to get moved.

Bush don't want to stop the war for oil, oops, for terror. It will be great for him and his sect or church if also there was a global war in mid-east. A lot of arabs would be killed and Israel too, may be with the pakistan atomic bomb that Saoudi financed thanks to the money of the oil that Bush lobby hold at 100% may be 90% but not less.
Roman would be the only ones standing on as his roman sect love to claim in order to go to paradise.

He wants a pure world, just like his grand father Prescott, banker of Hitler...

[edit on 22/6/2004 by Alchy]

"War On Terror" is a silly notion, like the "War On Drugs" - unwinnable from the start.
On 9/11 I figured the US response would be more of a police action thing, FBI, etc., rather than bombing cities.
Oh, wait, the bombing of cities was a later justification. Still, although I'm no scholar of Orwell, the book 1984 seems to refer to the same kind of endless war with the same kind of phantom enemy.
The "War On Terror" drags on and on with nothing clearly going on except our people getting killed, and Bush consistently getting what he wants using 9/11 as justification, and as an excuse to keep us too scared to question. If one were to look at it objectively, it's pretty obvious.
This we know - on 9/11 our air defenses were pathetically lax to such a degree that they should be questioned much, much further than the 9/11 commission has done, and the fabled enemy has not attacked us since. One would think that an enemy who had it together enough to pull off 9/11 would have presented itself by now. Instead, Bush sends our forces to a country that wasn't involved, and when they fight back, as any country being attacked would do, ah-ha ! They are terrorists !
Here's our "War On Terror"! Maybe the "War On Assumption" should begin.

Originally posted by Croker
"War On Terror" is a silly notion, like the "War On Drugs" - unwinnable from the start.

Exactly! Would bombing one of our states stop people from using drugs? Hell no! It's ridiculous to assume that this approach will work anywhere. War is only effective for taking out everyone in a specific area. War does not work when the enemy is comprised of selective targets. It doesn't work for drugs, and it won't work for terrorism. Now we have two very expensive and anti-productive "wars" on our hands. (Three if you count Afghanistan. Oh yeah, what ever happened with that war?)

War on terror means the excuse this president is using to gain control of this country and to get permission to invade another country the only terror we are having is the one our president created when he stuck his foot into his mouth.

The biggest mistake was going into war with the false hope that the country of Iraq was going to welcome our democracy and throw their oil for free into US hand. (Dick Cheney's big fat hands).

[Edited on 23-6-2004 by marg6043]

Absolutely true! All Bush has done is to make things in the world alot worse! Now we have Iran added to the mix and things are only going to go downhill from here. But I don't think it will be any better with Kerry on board.

Hmm, I believe that Iraq is as the president said after 9-11
A TIME AND PLACE OF OUR CHOOSING!

The USA has put its millitary out in front or civilians in order to DRAW THE ENEMY OUT...can't get into America? "Here we are, come get some!"...IF its true that "more" terrorists are the result of this then GOOD! lets get them to all come to where we've decided to wipe them out.
Please keep comming out and exposing your sick selves to the USA millitary
so that we can continue to erase you with an over 10-1 kill ratio.

Why wait like sheep for slaughter from cowards that will attack unannounced and hit soft, civilian targets?

Now, any extremist KNOWS where he can go to try and take on the USA....hello Iraq!!! Better there then here or other places for this to occur.
WE DECIDED where this fight was to be and when, NOT THEM!!! And if they are stupid enough (examples about "more" terrorists comming to Iraq) to come there, take pot-shots at a superior organized millitary, then they deserve what they are asking for....a quick death.

Ohhh blame Bush, i forgot....
Bush continued to violate UN sanctions that mandated weapons inspections....
Bush continued to violate the no-fly zone that was agreed upon to stop the first gulf war.....
Bush paid families of hamas suicide bombers for conductiiong terror strikes.
Bush was stockpilling $$$ from illicit oil sales thru the UN food for oil program, and wasnt using the $$$ for food/medicine as this program was set up for....
Bush has gassed his own population and attacked almost all neighboring countries (quait, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran)

OHH YEAH THAT WAS REALLY SADDAM HUSSAIN THAT DID ALL THAT, NOT BUSH!!!!!

The main reason I see this war as "unwinnable" is because 1/2 of you people have already given up your will to stand up for yourselves, and the principals of freedom and democracy....youve already surrendered!!! This is exactly what the President meant when he talked about showing our long term determination to do a hard thing...it is a test of willpower, and those of you that have given up already, endanger our loved ones in the armed forces by allowing a glimmer of hope in our enemy's mind...one that says "if we just wait long enough, America will give up".....

Why arent we sending a message that continued lawlessness, terrorism, and threatening and carrying out those threats against the USA WILL NOT BE TOLORATED IN ANY FORM!!!???

Oh yes, lets also just blame Bush for the history of, and the instabillity resulting from the post cold war situations where countries that once were under one side or the other, are now free from the constraints of this former polarization thruought the region, and now may threaten whomever they please, trade in weapons, and think they can get away with it.

For 25 yrs now, terrorists have gotten away with things, making them bolder and more agressive because they thought, "Americans dont have the will or courage to actually fight." Isnt that what the extremists said about us at Falluja? They DARED us to come in, thinking we wouldnt....
They formed this attitude because for the same 25 yrs, America essentially did nothing but lob a few cruise missiles around.....

How soon we forget that our millitary loses from dominating an entire COUNTRY, is far far less that the # of people that are murdered in the USA's top 5 violent USA cities!!! Not a peep about these people dying by the THOUSANDS here, yet we boo whoo because a fraction of our trained, volunteer millitary have died honorably in the line of duty, while bringing justice to evil doers, offering democracy and better human rights to oppressed people, and defending American intrests.

When our murder rate in the top 5 most violent cities in the USA drops below the # of soldiers killed in this conflict, then ill say we need a forign policy review....until then

Dont tread on the USA and think we will do nothing.....the days of that crap are over!

This war IS winnable, but only if you dont give up!!!

Our invasion of Iraq has brought, terrorism, destruction, instability into Iraq, women that never had to cover themselves with a muslin outfit are doing that now for security, to avoid been identify and rape. When Sadam was in power most job in the city of Baghdad was held by women now this women are at home scared jobless and hopeless.

In my view Sadam was a bad leader but US has brought horror to this country now. What kind of liberty is that that you can not walk the street without been sure that you will not be targeted or be a casualty, or that your children will be safe at school,.

Before Iraqi freedom it was Sadam terror, now US brought them freedom and Horror, to their streets. We change one evil for another evil.


[Edited on 23-6-2004 by marg6043]

Sometimes you have to break some eggs in order to bake a cake...

See the post above about how the crime rate in Bagdad is SAFER than the USA Capital D.C.

Also search for threads that show plenty of terrorist already playing in Iraq for the past decade....there might be no link between 9-11 and Iraq, but there is a long list of links between Iraq and all sorts of named terror groups...(Hammas, Ansar al islam, Al Queda just to name a few)

Where would you prefer that this conflict was taking place? Detroit?
London? Tel-Avive?

Now those radicals must pay the price by having us interfere over there, mabey when they realize that before they messed with us, civilians were not getting killed as casualties of war...should have thought of that before DARING us to come over and fight them, Mabey they should have overthrown Saddam long ago as many have asked them to do....
mabey if they can show the world that they can actually behaive as a civilized place, there wont be a need for anyone to "police" things for them.
Mabey if they could do this for themselves things would be better....

Who's blowing up more Iraqis now?
Who keeps trying to sabotage the oil pipelines and ways for Iraq to profit for IRAQ? The ones WE keep rebuilding and trying to protect FOR THEM!
Who issued the Fatawa in Iraq calling all able bodied people to come and fight us there?

Put the blame where it belongs....with the TERRORISTS.....

Oh yeah i forgot its blame Bush because were too affraid to further anger people that have been chanting DEATH TO AMERICA for 25 yrs now (Muslim extremists thru the region)

We're too scared from the 25 yr history of them BLOWING up our embassies, barraks, ships, and of course 9-11!!!!

What more do you need to understand in order to say enough is enough?
What will push you into ACTIONS instead of years of lip flapping thru the UN with no results?

And I thought terrorists were cowardly....but it seems like many would hide in fear and hope the bad guys go away....

Not me...
They have tasted blood and chaos and will not stop untill only one of us remain.

I choose US!!!!

Sometimes you have to break some eggs in order to bake a cake...

I�m sorry to say we did not only break some eggs with broke the entire container with this war, we destroyed the entire country, but that is ok, as long as it was in Iraq and not in US. Right?

And still is not proved of the Al-queda link prior to the invasion of Iraq, hummm I wonder.

I DO agree that the War On Terror is unwinnable, simply because we can only "win" it if we kill every single one of these radical muslims down to the last man.

Appearing today:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- A recording purportedly made by the mastermind of bombings and beheadings in Iraq threatened to assassinate Iraq's interim prime minister and fight the Americans "until Islamic rule is back on Earth."

This statement proves that these animals will not be satisfied untill everyone of US is dead and they rule the planet. It proves that they are NO DIFFERENT than the Nazis. It proves that they will not be satisfied untill Islam has total rule and every single "Infidel", whether it be man, woman or child, are DEAD (that's right marg6043, they want YOU dead too).

This takes me back to, Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lets kill them all and kill them right, what a mentality.

I wonder who the terrorist are, but what I can say this is the type of education this country is giving us. And this country is supposed to be a Christian nation.? Pity.

TextI DO agree that the War On Terror is unwinnable, simply because we can only "win" it if we kill every single one of these radical muslims down to the last man.

I am glad is only a few that thinks like you.

Cry me a river!!! When you can summon up 3000 dead Americans, 2 giant towers, a 5 walled building, and a plane full of HEROS then Ill actually care whether or not someone else gets hurt....but thats not the point....

marg, did you even TRY to search ATS for info about Iraq links to terrorists?
i'll save you the trouble
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now most of this is just about Al queda,

what about Saddams proven history of paying Hammass suicide bomber's families for their service?

what about the saddam loyalists called Ansar al islam? you know the ones that like cutting off peoples heads?

How many links to terrorists does a country have to have before they are guilty of aiding terror?

Which one of these 3 groups cited do you wish to continue to allow a safe place? Which group would you like to coddle some more with sanctions on paper?

which one of these groups wouldnt lop off your head for the TV cameras?

ALL 3 of these groups existed BEFORE the war....hopefully not for much longer.

If you support terrorists, or allow them a safe place of refuge, EVEN ONE...then you are with the terrorists....whats not to get?

As far as "destroying Iraq"
more people now have electricity and water than did before the war!!
(if only the terrorists that dont want a free iraq will stop blowing it back up every time WE FIX IT!)

take a look at other wars, vietnam, korea, WWII.....compare the death tolls and destruction there with this conflict and try to say this has been MORE brutal....its just not so

Heaven forbid one of your relatives dies is a terror attack....will you still feel that taking the fight to them isnt worth it?

Will you sit back and try to blame the President thats at least TRYING to fight them? Or will you then understand that terrorists dont care who the President here is, they dont care that people die for their cause (obvious as they will kill themselves along with their targets) they dont care WHERE they must go to eradicate the infidels, here, there, wherever....

They dont care about me or you in the least,
Why must i care about them?
Yes in war, "innocent" people will die as well....
Those "Innocent" people should be working very hard to expose the troublemakers in their midst and straighten up their acts (indeed many Iraqi governing officials have already paid with their lives to do so), otherwise what are they doing?
Harboring terrorists perhaps?

Where are all the peace-nick protestors now?
theyve already lost their will to even stand up for peace, why am i not suprised that so many are willing to SURRENDER now by giving up the WILL to resist a lethal threat to the worlds safety, economy, and rights of the rest of the peaceful nations that would like things to end so that things can continue to grow, instead of living under constant threats where at any time/place you could die, or the economy could collapse for everyone.

Stick your head back into the sand...keep believing "there are no terrorists....there are no terrorists".....hey what happened to my HEAD?

Dont worry, those of us that are tired of being spit on will defend you from the bad guys....at least until it comes down to having to choose between defense of those that stand and take the risk with you, or the ones that roll over and beg...please dont kill me...like that poor dude from Korea that just got his head handed to him. (not that he had much choice...BUT WE STILL DO!)

When there is another MAJOR attack here before our election, and we knee-jerk Kerry into the Whitehouse....do you think the radicals will care why you voted for Kerry?
NO, they will only see scared people with no long term willpower and vision trying to run and run like SPAIN did. They will declare a major victory by "changing the course of our elections" even if thats NOT the reason the people here decided to vote that way....They will play it to the hilt over there....

Is that what you want, to further embolden them by not only doing NOTHING to stop them but them giving them the PR victory they are looking for as well?

Get busy living, or get busy dying....
the terrosists and rouge nations that dont like you hope you choose the second option....makes it easy on them.

Im not saying "kill them all" unless i have to...if they leave me no choice...
But we can break their will to fight,
just like they have obviously already broken yours.