Armed EU Troops Storm Around EU Parliament Waving EU Flags

While a choir sung the EU “anthem” and they kicked off the session with the EU anthem.

Good luck Euros.

You’re going to need it.


The EU is progressing in exactly the same manner as the United States progressed into a full sovereign country.

At the founding of the US, it was not entirely clear if the US would hold together as a Nation Sate. The states viewed themselves as sovereign entities. The US federal government was created as a compact between states to ensure mutual protection and free trade agreements between themselves.

In fact the formation of the EU and the US is identical in every aspect, with the exception being that the people running the EU are not beholden to the sovereign citizens of the Nation States in any way.

If you like what the US has become, then you should support the EU.

If you dislike the warmongering fascist State the US has become, then you should oppose the EU.


[edit on 30-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Good luck Euros.

You’re going to need it.

Why?

Coz you're listening to some youtube video's posted by the UK Independence Party? By Nigel Farrage??? A noted loudmouth, anti EU politician.

UKIP are dumbasses. If you think this is the start of anything, you've obviously no clue whatsoever about the EU, how it works and how our nation states works in it.

What do you think is going to happen? These EU soldiers are going to take over the EU? How could that be even possible? Who pays for them? The member states..

My God.. People please stop posting this tripe from Farrage and the UKIP.. they don't have any voice of reason whatsoever..

While across the EU recently, the EU's popularity ratings have dropped to 49%, people who want more integration and centralization of power has risen.

So deal with it.

"Storm around the EU parliament" - That is just an outright lie.

Here's some text and links to back up a recent survey.. And for the record, you've obviously either never been to Europe or else have no concept of what it is.

Indeed, 75 percent of the respondents all across the EU said that stronger co-ordination of economic and financial policies among member states would be effective in fighting the economic crisis.

A majority of Europeans, 72 percent, said they would back a stronger supervision by the EU of the activities of the most important international financial groups, an increase of four percentage points in 2009.

There's plenty more in there.. euobserver.com...

Farrage's comments seemed to be directed more towards the outward forms, the pomp and circumstance of having armed soldiers marching around with flags, having a choir and an orchestra, etc.
The EU is supposed to be a working group, not a new ruling class of oligarchs with their own SS and military bands.
Europe contains the greatest diversity among nations of any continent. I believe his comments were simply supportive of that diversity.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I agree..

But I have to say, once you hear him several times, you'll get an idea of how much of a bigot he/they actually is/are.

Europe's diversity is always going to be an issue.. But in relation to the world, European nations are more alike than any other group. Unification has been a forward momentum for thousands of years.. It seems that there is no stopping what is obviously a natural evolution to the overall European civilization.

And to be completely fair, what he says even in that video about Van Rumpoy is ridiculous. What countries vote in the heads of their civil service? Or their ministerial chairmen? None.

And "Ruling class of Oligarchs"?? I know personally democratically elected 2 members of the EU parliament.. And believe me, these are no Ruling class individuals. And the Lisbon Treaty handed almost entirely 100% of decisions to the Parliament to be voted on. So whats the issue?

reply to post by Dermo

My God.. People please stop posting this tripe from Farrage and the UKIP.. they don't have any voice of reason whatsoever..

Why just because you say so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

would you like to give us some facts to back up this argument because a lot of people in the UK agree with what they are saying like it or not.

reply to post by alienesque


Maybe to some of us Europeans, it is better than the history of violence that has existed in previous decades. 2 World Wars have left a huge scar on this continent and surely working and coming together is preferable to our not so distant past?

Easy for Americans to pass judgement when neither war really came to your shores.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Easy for Americans to pass judgement when neither war really came to your shores.

I have a feeling we won't be so fortunate
in the next one.

Also, I wish the best for the people
of the EU.

the eu failed when louie and marie were be-headed. any course of action people in europe takes that is counter to assimilation with its neighboring countries (iran, russia, caucas east south north nw) is a failed attempt at breathing from a disassociated head in a basket. if the people want to elect and create the eu to feel that they have power over the "countries" they live they are misled if they are not gaining power in word and only in form that is eu; yet, the eu is a manifestation from the people and not the governing bodies of people.will it only be a matter of time before a form of control that is known as "government" is on the chopping block when people like farage stop speaking about his discontent with being a member of a group that usurps his countries documents and statutes.

about war; i am sure the angry mob will find who they feel are responsible for their anger regardless of the circumstantial evidence that could prove otherwise.

reply to post by Dermo


Thank you for the reply. Being an American I must profess my ignorance as to what really goes on in the EU parliament and I appreciate your candor and insight.
Europe is such an amazing collection of nations, I would hate to see anything happen that threatens the individual character of member nations.
You have solved many of your problems there and created a great freedom of movement and goods between countries.
There is much we Americans can learn from Europe if we can come down off our high horse and simply pay attention.
I will looking forward to reading more of your posts as I think they are insightful and intelligent.

Cheers, ATA

Nigel is right. Europe is the next big dictatorship. I wonder if it will be better or worse than Nazi Germany? His party UKIP, which gained 919,546 votes in the last election
news.bbc.co.uk... (despite our “three major party, one small vote, system”)
As its full name suggests, its quite single issue, in campaigning for a British referendum to withdraw from EU. Yet all 3 major political parties remain opposed to this. Few people are dumb enough to believe it’s because they fear the financial cost of organising a referendum. Instead its because (like so many other things) the “donkey” leaders of the British, are united in opposing “lion” will of the British people. This is unlikely to change (at whilst e.g. our country (like others) is forced to contribute 57 billion, euro more every 6 years than we get out).
en.wikipedia.org...

Or perhaps as long as in an (apparent) effort to preserve rare breads, the EU forces fishermen to dump about 850,000 tonnes of perfectly edible, dead, rare, fish every year (rather than exceed their fishing quota)
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Britain’s undemocratic, political situation, is repeated in other European Countries.

The “EU Constitution” which advocated the EU government, be able to feely impose its own will against even democratically elected, national parliaments, and have its own EU anthem and Army was rejected by the
French news.bbc.co.uk...
The Dutch: news.bbc.co.uk...

At which point it was scrapped. However the PM Tony Blair had (very reluctantly) promised the British people a referendum in the 2005 Labour, election manifesto. It was only because the Example set by the French and Dutch governments, and massive political, lobbying, from the commercial press (itself representing the will of the British people) that they agreed to give us a say.

However when the EU constitution was scrapped it was argued that because it weren’t happening, that neither was a British referendum on the matter. However had they granted us a referendum, then it to would have been rejected by the British people.

History…
The European Union last one a democratic mandate from Western Europe when it was the European Economic Union. Ever since the 1993 Treaty of Maastricht (negotiated almost, entirely between European politicians) it became the European Union with the goal of “ever closer union”.

It is exactly like Nazi Germany, The French Revolution, or the Roman Empire. Non of these movements lacked supports who genuinely believed they were “progressive” they were “right” and who would therefore ignore-suppress the contradictory wishes of others (even if they were the majority).



Today over half the EU Budget goes on CAP (subsidising farmers, over 80% of which own assets exceeding 1 million euro’s).

The EU corrupts member governments by simultaneously appealing to both ends of the political spectrum, by offering jobs to failed-retiring politicians, aid to poor-aspiring members, and a well meaning ideology (one many fear is about as “well meaning” as Soviet Communism).
It spends over 9 billion a year on propaganda (i.e. political marketing) advertising its ideology of ever greater union.

Personally I am so angry about the way Europeans (and those who aspire to compete for power democratically are being ignored) that I can’t wait until we are bombing European buildings, just like we bombed buildings in the same locations during WW2!!!
Of course this time it will almost certainly be a nuclear war. I know I'm extreme, but I still respect others views. However I know I'm far from alone when I say I’d rather be British and part of the last 1 percent, than I’d be “European” and enslaved just like 99 percent.

I used to be aganst the EU, but, then I matured a bit and realized my being against it was simply a knee-jerk reaction caused by the knee-jerk anti-globalism of conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

These days, I put it like this. I would love for Europe to be united by the EU. I would love to call myself a European citizen, see the EU as one of the world's decision-making superpowers of the future, and love to see us use our national militaries for EU peacekeeping operations around the world. I love the idea of Europe united, quite frankly.

However. I still want the ability to call myself, not just a European citizen, but a Swedish citizen as well. I want to be able to say I live "in the EU", or "in Sweden". I want a union - but I do not want a European nation.

And, of course, there are some serious issues to be discussed with the EU. As with everything, it's not perfect - and right now, in my mind, there are some serious issues with democracy that need to be discussed, mainly the corruption among the EU bureaucrats, as well as the many freedom- and privacy infringing laws that are being encouraged and voted in by the many European countries. That has to stop.

But as I said - nothing is perfect. But we can make Europe a beautiful union, together - and to do that, we need to kick the corrupt bureaucrats - and politicians - out of their offices in the European Parliament.

Here's a nice video about the European Union, and what it can become for us, if we let it.




On a sidenote; I'm a huge fan of Nigel Farage's. And I respect his anti-EU stands. The fact remains it's supposed to be a democracy, meaning we all have the right to our own opinion about the EU - and the right to voice it. And if the majority of the people in a member country want out of the EU, then so be it - then, that must happen.

That's the kind of EU I want. Not a dictatorship where membership is permanent, and where we're all forced to adapt the Euro by the machinations of corrupt globalist politicians. I don't mind globalism, the EU and the Euro - as long as it's done the right way.

Originally posted by David_Reale

I used to be aganst the EU, but, then I matured a bit and realized my being against it was simply a knee-jerk reaction

Sounds like you were always a "natural" supporter!!!

caused by anti-globalism of conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

For decades EU supporters have denied they were building a superstate. Now they admit to building a superstate, by deny a dictatorship. It’s in the human brain to identify patterns (just because Alex Jones got rich from being a lunatic, and sponsored by MSN for being an idiot, doesn’t mean he hasn’t the odd 1% of truth). The real world conspirators put Alex Jones on the TV channels they own-control so be careful to dismiss all the arguments his support, ridicules.

You seem to support the EU because you believe it will lead to a Utopia, when all indications are that it will lead to a bigger government. One with less representatives per person, one more over burned (like the Soviet Unions collectivisation brought poverty rather than wealth).
An EU state will be inefficient (like today’s rare fish, dumping Common Fishing Policy), democratically insular (like the Common Agriculture Policy where 46% of EU money goes) and ultimately govern with the consent of its supporters rather than people (just like its historical predecessors, and as the way the (rejected) EU Constitution was almost immediately replaced by the Lisbon Treaty (a treaty put to referendum by only 1 country out of 26 signatories, despite sharing 95% similar text as the Constitution).

If you support the EU then I believe you would probably have supported communism in the 1920’s. Because: They both use exactly the same logic (i.e. collectivisation, and rule by the bureaucrat, rather than the democrat) to justify a Utopia they cannot deliver (as has been shown by the (overall) harmful effects of EU experiments, (to date).

reply to post by Liberal1984


Ah, but I said I support a democratic European Union, nothing else. If what they create in the end can't deliver on that, then it's not what I'm supporting. And I loathe and reject the left-right paradigm of politics, including communism, so, no, I wouldn't have supported communism.

As for Utopia... I don't really believe we as humans can create a Utopia, at least not today, and I don't expect that from the EU. But I do believe we can create something good out of the European Union, something solid that'll make us all stronger, not just because of our unity but also because of our diversity. I think the EU is a step in the right direction, and I think it's the future for Europe.

But as I said - if a majority of Europe's population doesn't want it, then regardless of what I want, we cannot have it, because it's supposed to be a democratic Union.

Edit to add: For all the criticism the Lisbon Treaty have received, rumor - and Wikipedia - claim that it has increased the power and decision making influence of the democratically elected European Parliament. Quote:

There is no consensus as to whether the Lisbon Treaty reduces or increases the democratic deficit in the European Union. The Lisbon Treaty increases the power of the democratically elected European Parliament and introduces the Citizen's initiative. The Lisbon Treaty is, however, being ratified by the governments of counties whose people would most likely reject the treaty if it was put to a democratic referendum.

Just 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth, being that the source is Wikipedia.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by David_Reale]

Sadly, this is apart of the European State and adopting procedures from other nations to pretend that Europe is a single nation.

Worrying times.

reply to post by David_Reale


the citizen's initiative is a joke..its a farce..its a scam...a lie..whatever you want to call it...its a hoax...

reply to post by alienesque


Whatever you want to call it, I wasn't talking about the citizen's initiative, but about the fact that more power was transferred to the democratically elected European Parliament.

The citizen's initiative is another issue altogether.

reply to post by David_Reale

You cannot have the United States of Europe and the Kingdom of Sweden. You cannot be a European citizen and a Swedish citizen. You can't have a centralized European state and still live in a sovereign Sweden where Sweden has complete control over it's own affairs.

This is something you Europeans don't understand. If you give them all this power, sooner or later some nutcase is going to come along and destroy everything. You will be better off as 30 seperate sovereign nations then as 1 nation.

reply to post by ChrisF231


I didn't say I want a United States of Europe. I said I wanted a European Union, a union made up of the nations of Europe as a strong affiliation of sovereign nations - strong and tight-knit enough to be seen, from the outside, as one nation with one voice - but from the inside, ruled by its sovereign member nations.

And that's something - if democracy prevails in the favor of globalism rather than in favor of those rejecting the idea of EU - we will begin to create. You say we can't have both. I disagree. Maybe the model we have for EU today won't allow it - but that doesn't mean we cannot create a new model after which to shape the European Union, as long as we voice our opinions about it and show some initiative and interest in the EU related elections.


And if, in the end, we end up abolishing national governments in favor of the EU - then, so be it, as long as it happens by democratic means. And if it does not happen by democratic means, then, again, that's not the kind of European Union I support.