British spy' found dead in bath

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
in a bizarre ritualistic scene - his mobile telephone and a collection of SIM cards were carefully laid out.

This is the interesting part, and the only detail that sticks out as being special to me.

My best guess is that he was a mole, that outlived his usefulness to his handlers, or was in danger of 'flipping'.

The SIM cards display his habitual use of multiple 'identities', and are something of a 'taunt' to the British intelligence services. They speak volumes in their neat and careful placement - I would bet that they contain information on a 'group' that is being hung out to dry - potentially with planted information.

But then I'm just theorising now....

Parallex.

We'll he lived a mile away from Mi6 HQ, yet it took them 2 weeks to actually bother to try and find him...
Where as my employers are phoning me when im an hour late.

But yeah, a Welsh maths genius who was taking G.C.S.E's in Primary school and in University in secondry.

Im just hazarding a guess but I recon it is related to his private life. Probably a lovers tiff etc..

i must say the sim crad thing struck me as strange........ am surprised the press was allowed to say that or even found out about it. am sure i heard on the news tonight he wasnt stabed. and why did they leave him in a sports bag in the bath ? its worth keeping an eye on this one

C4 News reports MI6 are less than happy about the amount of information the Police have released to the Press.

yeah c4 is where i heard that he wasnt stabed.... am sure they said that :/

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Double agent...
second line.

[edit on 25/8/2010 by Hedera Helix]

Originally posted by Zeptepi
Wow, So he was possibly a spy at a British listening post (usually a radio post). And a strange coded voice signal from a Russian station that has not transmitted a voice secret code in many many years did this a few days ago. Could there be a connection?

This morning as i was drinking my coffee before work, i was reading the UVB thread about Sundays out of the ordinary broadcast.

When i heard about this event on the radio later on in the day, i couldnt wait to get back home and see if there was any response to it on ATS.

Odd how the last time UVB 76 was acting up it coincided with the spy-ring bust in the US in June...

www.bbc.co.uk...

...and then this happens.

Originally posted by Parallex

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
in a bizarre ritualistic scene - his mobile telephone and a collection of SIM cards were carefully laid out.

This is the interesting part, and the only detail that sticks out as being special to me.

My best guess is that he was a mole, that outlived his usefulness to his handlers, or was in danger of 'flipping'.

The SIM cards display his habitual use of multiple 'identities', and are something of a 'taunt' to the British intelligence services. They speak volumes in their neat and careful placement - I would bet that they contain information on a 'group' that is being hung out to dry - potentially with planted information.

But then I'm just theorising now....

Parallex.

Well, that same neatly placed items layout occurred in the case of Raymond Lemme, an officer from the Florida Inspector General's office who was found dead of "suicide" in a seedy Georgia motel room just as he was cracking a major case that "went all the way to the top."

Raymond Lemme was obviously killed by a hit man, based on all the evidence and witness testimony, and it was made to look like a suicide.

All his items too were laid out in a neat fashion:


[edit on 25-8-2010 by harrytuttle]

so i wonder if the "buzzer" has got something to do with the mi6 murder.........
i might to start to just listen to the buzzer and see if there is any more strange things on it.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by rikgrimsby]

the first thing this reminded me of was those two french students who were murdered in a gruesome manner in london...

www.americanfreepress.net...

I get the impression that this guy wasn't that high up the Intelligence food chain. He was a GCHQ officer on temporary secondment to MI6.GCHQ's primary function is to intercept/monitor (and translate) signals and communications. Detailed analysis takes place elsewhere. If this guy had been a big wheel, I suspect we would not have heard about his death.

I wondered how long it would take for this to get on ATS.

Great subject.
Lots of room for conjecture.

What really happened??

Firstly, I feel sorry for his family and friends. RIP

Secondly, and perhaps USA ATSers might not know but UK has had a LOT of immigration from Eastern Europe in the last ten years. Obviously the vast majority are legit, but does anyone wonder how many Russian Agents have come into the country under false flags?

Anyone must realise that even thought the Cold War is over, at some point, Russia and its vast oil reserves will be stretching its muscles sometime soon, especially since a lot of its former soviet neighbours are becoming friendly to the west.

Could this poor man be a victim of this? Spetnaz?

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Well, that same neatly placed items layout occurred in the case of Raymond Lemme, an officer from the Florida Inspector General's office who was found dead of "suicide" in a seedy Georgia motel room just as he was cracking a major case that "went all the way to the top."

Raymond Lemme was obviously killed by a hit man, based on all the evidence and witness testimony, and it was made to look like a suicide.

All his items too were laid out in a neat fashion:


[edit on 25-8-2010 by harrytuttle]

That's either extremely interesting, or a passing coincidence. A sense of order presented at a murder scene indicates calculation, a cool head, and methodology.

The polices initial explanation that he had been stabbed doesn't wash with me. A stabbing is violent, and a messy affair. From the mental image presented of the crime scene, violence and mess appear to be missing. Obviously we don't have enough information - but combine this weighty supposition with the orderly scene of the man's phone paraphenalia, and you get a trend.

The only other interesting thing is that the chappy was stuffed in a bag. Why would he be left in a bag at the scene? He was left in the bath, which would indicate to some that this was the scene of (assumed) dismemberment. Easily washable, and a containment area for gore etc. But still, why put him in a bag in the bath?

My view is, that the flat is not the murder scene. I believe he was murdered elsewhere, dismembered, and then stuffed in the holdall bag. He would've been put in the bath, simply because there would be no 'leakage' to provide forensic evidence or early warnings as to the situation - blood leaking through the floor / celing of the apartment below etc.

It will be interesting to see what evidence emerges of his whereabouts in the weeks prior. We could begin establishing a potential motive with his whereabouts.

Then there's the absence of information about the condition of the flat. If someone who DID NOT HAVE ACCESS to the flat broke in, there would be evidence. Did they use his key? Or did they have an extra key?

The absence of information presented to the press is evidence enough that something else is going on here - especially if the intelligence services are feigning annoyance at the amount of information presented to the press by the police. That acts as both a very public warning and a smoke screen.

Eyes and ears open people.

Parallex.

reply to post by Zeptepi


Mmm, well spotted. That's a very interesting connection.

2nd line.

reply to post by Zeptepi


It's absolutely amazing how arm chair spies connect grey dots from a conspiracy website with a grey line.

Great job!

The Sun newspaper are reporting that the murder victim was homosexual and a transvestite, that he frequented some dubious cruising zones for sex & that womens clothing of his size was found in his apartment.

Curiously they also state he lived in an apartment valued at £400,000. Given that he wasn't particularly high up the greasy pole, "middle ranking", and given that British civil service payscales aren't generous, I wonder how he could afford to live in such a place. Perhaps he got some kind of extra housing allowance for his duration with MI6.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


The apartment wasn't his. He was renting it. The Company that owns it is in based in a Tax Haven and appears to have an Eastern Euoropean name.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


My first thought about that report is that it was intentionally printed to make people think "oh look he was a gay trannie and got murdered for it" to convince the masses that there is nothing more to see.

Originally posted by Parallex

The polices initial explanation that he had been stabbed doesn't wash with me. A stabbing is violent, and a messy affair. From the mental image presented of the crime scene, violence and mess appear to be missing. Obviously we don't have enough information - but combine this weighty supposition with the orderly scene of the man's phone paraphenalia, and you get a trend.

The only other interesting thing is that the chappy was stuffed in a bag. Why would he be left in a bag at the scene? He was left in the bath, which would indicate to some that this was the scene of (assumed) dismemberment. Easily washable, and a containment area for gore etc. But still, why put him in a bag in the bath?

My view is, that the flat is not the murder scene. I believe he was murdered elsewhere, dismembered, and then stuffed in the holdall bag. He would've been put in the bath, simply because there would be no 'leakage' to provide forensic evidence or early warnings as to the situation - blood leaking through the floor / celing of the apartment below etc.

Then there's the absence of information about the condition of the flat. If someone who DID NOT HAVE ACCESS to the flat broke in, there would be evidence. Did they use his key? Or did they have an extra key?

You make some good points.

Couple of ideas off the back of that thought. If the murder took place elsewhere, why would you carry a bag that needs to be put into a bath up the stairs to the top flat, through the lounge etc. to the bathroom to then put it in a vessel that can contain the drips? A number of forensic nuggets could be dropped from the holdall during the transport from front door to bath.

I would therefore argue that no blood dripped from the holdall at any time. There is no way that dismembering a person would not leave a hell of a lot of mess, this is not Dexter. I know that we do not know the state of the bathroom but as you mentioned, it seems like a very mess free scene.

The phone is very interesting and if this murder does tie in with the radio station then the phone thing could be the killer saying "I killed him and I searched his phone, I know who he spoke to and I am coming for you." That is quite a worrying thought.

Good thread.