Question regarding what constitutes very large quotes

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Please don't use compounded quotes for any reason.

But was that really the intended spirit of it or was it meant to prevent excessively deep and jumbled quotes?

I can imagine that one time or another, there was no restraint at all in far too many posts, then a "zero tolerance" policy was implemented just to quell the problematic cases altogether. It could all be my imagination though. Usually it's no more than a line or two, not paragraphs.

Ok, then, I might suggest that even quotes be automatically provided with a link like the Reply because someone might want to refer back to the post even with a quotation. I know I have at times when it's quite far away and there are many replies.

Reply to post by GradyPhilpott

I have to disagree on it slowing down reading. There have been many times where I'll be reading a post where someone uses the reply to button instead of quoting and even after comparing posts I have trouble figuring out which line they were commenting on. It makes posts longer, that's for sure, but sometimes you need to quote individual lines from a post in order to make it clear what you are responding to. Even if it does mean inserting several quotes in your post.

Then there are instances of people changing their post after you respond to make it look like you are saying something you're not. In those cases multiple quotes don't just clarify, they are absolutely necessary.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

This should help
Please read: Big Quote

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Hey, I posted that on page 1. Besides we all agreed it is from 2004 for (six years ago)...some updating is duly needed

reply to post by Jenna


Good writing skill removes the need to respond to quotes throughout a person's post.

A broken up quote like that does not negate the quote rule and it just clogs up your post.

You may think that it's necessary, but believe me it is not.

I have written many an essay and academic paper without ever having to resort to that tactic.

With all due respect, it's just lazy writing that requires that method.

reply to post by NeutronAvenger


The rule is no less applicable today than it was six years ago.

ATS has always promoted good writing skills and this rule, besides its stated justification, does promote better writing skills.

It's not hard. It just takes a little forethought.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I would agree with Jenna that the reply to function does not improve readability.

When I am trying to keep up with a large thread, I really appreciate having snippets of the posts people are responding to. I may not remember exactly who said what, particularly if I've gone through three pages of posts since the post being replied to.

And I appreciate your concern for our writing skills, but this is not an academic environment, it is an internet discussion board. People's skills will vary widely, both in writing and in following a thread.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Insuring that what you post can't be misconstrued and that the person you are responding to can't change their post after you've responded by quoting what you are responding to is laziness? No offense, but that's ridiculous. It requires more effort to trim a quote down to the pertinent section without destroying the original meaning and/or intent and include it in my post than to click 'reply to'.

reply to post by americandingbat


Snippets that fall into the parameters of the rules are permitted.

Excessive quoting is not.

With a little practice the method of excessively quoting is completely unnecessary.

reply to post by Jenna


I believe that learning to paraphrase is the answer to your dilemma.

It's fast, easy, and works.

In fact, over quoting removes sentences and paragraphs from the context in which they were written and can be used to obfuscate the meaning of the original author.

You actually see that quite a bit on this board.

As I've said, learning to write more effectively require practice and a little forethought and you and the board will be the better for it.



[edit on 2010/8/25 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Depending on who I'm discussing something with, paraphrasing works. You, for example, are straightforward in your wording and I don't worry that my responses will be misconstrued later on. I feel no need to quote anything from your posts because I believe you're honest enough not to change it to something completely different afterward and they are straightforward enough it would be impossible to confuse which part I'm responding to.

There are several other posters who paraphrasing will not work with. If you paraphrase their posts, the only response you get is "That's not what I said", even though it is. With them quoting it is the only way to prevent dishonesty on their part unless I start taking screen shots of every post I respond to. Somehow I think I'll get in more trouble if I post a bunch of screenshots of peoples posts every time they try to change it after the fact or deny they wrote it to begin with.

At the risk of stating the obvious and making myself sound like a pompous pain in the butt (promise I'm not!!), I don't have any trouble with writing. It's not my ability or lack thereof that causes me to quote sections of people's posts when replying, it's their lack of honesty. I can't control them, but I can make sure that their lack of honesty doesn't come back to bite me in the butt.

reply to post by Jenna



You do a good job of stating your point, but I do not believe that the quote function was designed to used in the manner you describe.

It would also be possible for a quoter to edit in something that the quoted did not say.

The quote function was just not intended to be used in that fashion.

I think you have the requisite skills to express yourself without breaking the quote rule and all the other stuff is what moderators and administrators are for.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


There was a time when the quote rule was much more vigorously enforced than it has been recently.

You will note that I've corrected without punitive measure many more posts than I have XQuoted.

What I'd like to see is voluntary compliance with a rule that benefits all, not just a few.

Just try it. You will find that you have to work at your phrasing a little, but you and the board will be the better for it.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Ok, then, I might suggest that even quotes be automatically provided with a link like the Reply [to]....

I like that idea, too. Perhaps you could suggest it.



[edit on 2010/8/25 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Thank you. I agree it's not the intended function, but I just can't see you mods being happy about getting hundreds of alerts a day over people lying about what they posted. I think that would tempt you all to disconnect the alert button.

As for people adding things to what they are quoting, it does happen on occasion but it's usually noticeable and whoever does it gets called out quickly. What I see more often is people butchering a quote or only quoting the few words that they can twist to prove their point.

reply to post by Jenna



A mods life isn't easy, no matter how you slice it.

Do you think cleaning up all the massive quotes is fun?

The pay is great, though.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I've heard you all get free drinks in the break room and company cars. Sounds like some decent compensation to me. I would totally renegotiate your contract to include an all you can eat buffet though. You all gotta eat sometime.

Don't forget the party ball, the strobe and the black lights.

It's a blast!

Mods have all the fun....

We better get back on topic or we'll both get in trouble.

With permission, here's the mods reply

Personally, I believe that Simon's post is self-explanatory and that my repeating it would be redundant at best.

I will say this: Having several small quotes sprinkled throughout a post from a single post does not override the rule and is very poor writing.

A good writer should be able to incorporate the ideas of another into his post and address them individually without the use of the quote function.

I do know that that can be more trouble, but it makes for easier reading for others and that is what Simon's quoting rule is all about: making the threads and the board easier to navigate and read.

I can't say I agree with all of it but I have to accept it. My biggest issue is fairness across the boards. I've read and understand that mods are only human but it doesn't appear that everyone is on the same page.

In long threads it's very difficult to keep track of who said what and when they said it. The quoting button is there as an option and I think it's a useful one. Do people abuse it? Absolutely. If writing skills should trump the quote option I suggest it be removed. The writing skills issues feels like a bit of a put down and I question the relevancy of it because of the option to quote. As already mentioned, this is an general, public, worldwide, internet forum, not a graduate level discussion forum. I'm don't consider myself a great writer although I'd consider myself middle of the line. There's some excellent writing skills displayed here by some but there's plenty of the exact opposite. I really hate repeating myself but if that's the case then get rid of the quote button or moderate more threads with excessive quotes.

I didn't know that any nested quotes weren't allowed and have done at least a few through time. I have to agree with some on the usefulness of it. Potentially, it could be more wordy paraphrasing that simply quoting them. The issue of people editing their post is an extremely valid point.

I think someone else mentioned something like this, and it's probably not the best of times to make suggestions with ATS 2010 coming out, but what about something like this. I shortened the post as it originally appeared but what about an option like this, with the click of a button, instead of coding it manually, seems like a fair and useful compromise. Hovering over it with the quote appearing would be awesome, in my opinion.

everything? I think this is a maxim we should all be challenging. click to see the rest