i was almost arrested for.........apples.

reply to post by ShadowAngel85


are you being sarcastic here?
stealing? comparing this to a rape? i'm laughing so hard i know you can't be serious.

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[edit on 2010/8/23 by GradyPhilpott]

File a formal complaint...go have a talk with the district attorney, the supervisor in charge of the game wardens, and the sheriff of the county that you were in. File formal complaints.

Just out of curiosity, were you Mirandized? Did they brandish their weapons, or use threatening/profane language? Did they explain the reason you were detained and kept for an hour from going on your way? Are you really sure you consented to a search of your luggage? Was it informed consent?

Tell them in straight-up terms what happened and, while you wait for a response, get in touch with your mayor, governor and state/federal representatives and tell them the same things. Consider talking with someone at the local paper and/or TV station.

These morons bank on the notion that when they goof on somebody, no one will call them on it. You can circumvent their chains of command and very effectively hinder career advancement. It's one good way to fight the fascists.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by MMPI2]

No, I don't think animals are more important than people.

Yes, these are Public lands. The courthouse is public too, I dare you to eat an apple while court is in session, a nice, crisp, juicy apple...

Regardless of what the state of that land was prior to the white man's coming, it has been uninhabited for years. The orchard and other nice things left by people have become part of the landscape that the animals there are used to having. To suddenly take them away from them would cause great harm. The equivalent to you would be for someone to take away every grocery store for miles around. Oh, no food? too bad - you can just go somewhere else can't you?

This man-made abundance has doubtless allowed the number of animals in that area to increase greatly. Is that a bad thing? Eventually, the trees will probably die and the land will revert to what it was a thousand years ago but will do so in gradual steps. To allow humans to do whatever they want would speed up the process to a degree where animals could not cope with the sudden changes to their environment, causing starvation, increased competition for limited resources, disease and death.

The National Forest rules have been around a long time, long before agenda 21 was even a wet spot in some megalomaniac's pants. I agree with many of you that the UN is a dangerous organization with equally dangerous ideas. However, they are in no way connected to the rules that govern land use in National forests by the public.
Yes, many mining, timber and ranching interests use and sometimes destroy parts of our national forests. It galls me to see what clear-cutting has done to parts of the NF here in Virginia.

Regardless of what big money interests do to our public lands does that make it right for us to do the same even if on a far lesser scale?
Many of you sound like you don't think the public should have any constraints on them whatsoever.

So go ahead, take your 4 wheelers out there and go shoot some critters and make a big ole bonfire to cook em up on! Be sure to leave all your trash and leave the fire going, you never know what animal might want to warm itself up by the fire you so thoughtfully left them.

If you don't like rules then don't complain when all the wild spaces look like the empty lots near the closed factories in your town. Can we not leave some room for nature to go undisturbed?

PS - Ginseng IS native to North America.



[edit on 23-8-2010 by Asktheanimals]

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
So go ahead, take your 4 wheelers out there and go shoot some critters and make a big ole bonfire to cook em up on! Be sure to leave all your trash and leave the fire going, you never know what animal might want to warm itself up by the fire you so thoughtfully left them.

How'd did we go from eating apples to hunting critters like rednecks??!!!



ps I brake for animals, though Im not PETA crazy!

reply to post by Asktheanimals


i'm just wondering. do you have the same feelings about me filling my canteen in a nice spring?
am i taking water away from the local animals in the same way that i'm taking their apples?

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior

How'd did we go from eating apples to hunting critters like rednecks??!!!



ps I brake for animals, though Im not PETA crazy!

As long as we don't think we need rules I was simply pointing out extremes of rule breaking. Why don't you tell us exactly where we draw the line then?

Please tell me then, what should and should not be allowed on National Forest lands?

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Please tell me then, what should and should not be allowed on National Forest lands?

one thing i'm sure of. i'd rather see humans eat the fruit than watch cows get in there and trash the springs and ancient aqauducts.

reply to post by rubbertramp


That would depend entirely on whether or not you needed it. If you were starving, it would be allowed to eat fruit or even kill an animal. Water for you to drink? sure.
Water rights are not the same as land rights and out west your laws are far different than back east as we've only recently had to fight for water it's so abundant. I'm pretty sure it's a law out west that in a emergency you can have access to any open water.

It's not as much what you are doing that these laws try to discourage as other things people would do (not "might" do) if it were legal. Gather nuts, fruits, cut flowers (now, I just can't picture any poor person doing that one) and selling them, cutting firewood for money, gathering crafts materials, prospecting, water diversion, hunting, trapping etc etc.

They have to draw the line at everything pretty much to keep the floodgates to abuse shut. It's sad that you can't bring something physical back with you, I break the rules by finding a special stone everywhere I go.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I break the rules by finding a special stone everywhere I go.

i've been a rockhound for years. most areas it's perfectly legal. there's even prospecting laws for wilderness and other areas. how are you breaking a law by picking up a rock on your walks?
unless your in an area it isn't legal, or your talking about some sort of personal karmic law.

alright, i've checked every local map, old map, quadrant map etc.....that i could find on the internet.
i can't find any sort of designation besides just being normal cibola national forest land.

reply to post by rubbertramp


*SNIP*
And as all too typical today they being the power, needed to demonstrate to you their power because you caused them some embarrassment when then discovered they had hassled you for nothing. So what did they do, but make asses of themselves. That ain't no way to do public service.

Mod Edit: Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia are strictly forbidden.

[edit on Tue Aug 24 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Please tell me then, what should and should not be allowed on National Forest lands?

I don't claim to be an authority on such a thing....perhaps you should ask the United Nations

reply to post by Aliensun


your the second one to mention this, and i think it might be a good point.
6', 210, trimmed beard, long braided hair, yup, might be a point here.

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech


The same ppl pushing this are the same ppl that put up the
Georgia Guidestones about 30 years ago.

And who might "those people" be? Put a name on it and you will have the answers.

I think this video might be relevant



Obviously the cop in your case was way overreacting, but I assume that this sort of thing is why the law is in place.

As far as I know this law also exists here in the UK and has done for as long as I can remember.

Originally posted by Three_moons
Ignorance of the law doesn't pass for an excuse I've heard but how are people supposed to know everything?

I think this is a maxim we should all be challenging.
Not only are there a thousand gazillion laws, statutes, and codes, but they are all written in a foreign language that we cannot understand. That language is called Legalese. They have their own dictionaries for the terms.

Legalese is a deception. They take words that mean one thing in the Oxford dictionary and turn the meaning into something completely different in the Law Dictionaries. It is evil. It's twisted.

"Ignorance of the law" should neither be accepted nor condoned by the common man. Challenge it.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

So go ahead, take your 4 wheelers out there and go shoot some critters and make a big ole bonfire to cook em up on! Be sure to leave all your trash and leave the fire going, you never know what animal might want to warm itself up by the fire you so thoughtfully left them.

Gee nothing like stereo typing. To act like hunters all trash the place is a false characterization. Actually hunters are generally the best conservationist of any group including animal lovers and so called environmentalist because they want to preserve the areas so they can continue to use and enjoy them along with future generations. it is usually non-hunters who want to go out in the woods and party that leave trash and mess things up.

I live in the Idaho Rockies and I am familiar with national forest policy and your rose colored view of it is not the reality. Ever seen deer starving because of over population? I have, and we also have water shortages because of thier policies and we have three fires going right now because of thier effed up policies. We also have over population of wolves now killing livestock and threatening people and finally they opened a hunting season on wolves. Because that is better then letting ranchers protect their herds and familites by having a policy of killing any wolves on sight. The Wolves were doing great in the Canadian wilderness but some genius feds decided they should be reintroduced to populated areas so they ripped these wolves from thier natural habitat and sent them here where they are not afraid of people because they have not had contact with people.

Ever seen a herd of elk foul a stream with feces and urine? I have. We that live in these mountains no best how to preserve them not some corrupt bureaucrat from the east. You think the people that live here want to let idiots trash the place or deplete the natural resources and species here? Wake up and smell the bad media coffee you have been drinking. We can take care of idiots because the forest service sure doesn't they only hassle law abiding citizens to extort money from them. I can't tell you how many times I have cleaned up after idiots from the city who come out here to commune with nature blah blah...

[edit on 23-8-2010 by hawkiye]

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Rubbertramp, I can understand your frustration at the idea of all that fruit going to waste. What you did probably would have zero impact on the wildlife there. What if 10 or 100 people all decided to do what you did?

Millions of people already do this.


What if everyone agreed on "property rights" and "laws"? Then you get our messed up country, that doesn't have half the respect for nature that the natives once had, before we seized their land by force and killed millions of them violently.


It is not natural for men and women to live in crowded cities and have food shipped in to them from abroad. It is not even natural to buy your food at a grocery store, let alone pumped full of pesticides, chemical additives or is generally modified.

What if everyone ate all of this polluted, unnatural food? Then you get a nation of sick and obese people, just like we have.


What if everyone who was sick and obese relied on "quick-fix" pill for their symptoms only, instead of addressing the root problem of unhealthy eating and exercise? Then you get a pharmaceutical industry that is out of control, crooked to the core and in itself contributes to illnesses and deaths through side-effects and failing to treat the real problems.


And what if everyone just bowed to authority no matter what it tells us, and assume they represent what is right? Then you get this fascist police state.


I rather like this question of "what if everyone did it?"

If everyone was able to live off the land and in harmony with nature, it would be wonderful.

If there was only 1 orchard in the world you might have a problem. Fortunately this is not the case, though our government seems to be doing what it can to reduce the amount of food people provide naturally for themselves. Helps force people into being sick and buying drugs, helps force people to be more dependent on the system to live at all, and helps force people to die to ease this population crisis some of our leaders hint around about.



If I may add one more comment.

It's a shame someone didn't come out of the woods while you were in cuffs and kill all of the officers, and let you go.

Now what if everyone were a Robin Hood like that? We would have our country and natural rights back in a heart beat, except for the dead. But frankly sometimes they deserve it, just as much as a cancer cell in the body deserves death. I could make it in the Wild West. You have to be on your toes, ready to defend your own person to the death (the best way to prevent any confrontation!), and respectful of others in all cases.

There is a time and place for everything.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by AquariusDescending]

OP, why didn't you just bring a pick-up truck up there and take ALL OF THE FRUIT?

It's on public land, right... so you can take it, huh? It's public.

As a matter of fact, why not go to the City Hall, bust in, and take all of the wonderful artifacts. You should go to the local public school too and take all of the desks and books.

After you ransack the Public schools, why not commandeer the Space Shuttle -- It's public property too! After you go to the moon, why not come back and stay the night in the White House, which is public property. You can take all the fruit there too! You can take the couches too, because all of the furniture in the white house is public property!

Jesus OP, God broke the mold when he made you, didn't he? You must have been created from the mold that was labeled, "Ignore all common sense and simple legal definitions!!!!"

Hell, OP, with YOUR ATTITUDE, you basically can go almost anywhere that isn't privately owned and take anything you want!

JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!

The people in this thread that you think are being sarcastic are not being as such. You are so far out there that you don't even realize what you are doing.

Hey, maybe next you can stroll right into NORAD, which is public property, and steal all of the computers.

reply to post by ShadowAngel85


AMEN!!!!::::::applause::::::::::

A reserve, preserve, park, recreational area........you are supposed to take only pictures and leave only footprints. This includes packing out anything you take in, no matter how small or inconvienent.
Sounds like you don't know that. Now you do. Don't do it again. When you are in a park/reserve/preserve/whatever, the law (and it is the law, did you miss that part?) is being upheld. BooHoo, the proper authorities used their proper authority to scold you.
Unless there are signs that state otherwise, leave it be. That includes collecting leaves, picking flowers, collecting fossils, or whatever.
If you don't like the law, find somewhere else to steal your fruit.