2004 Dodge Pickup Runs on 100% Water

reply to post by Hobbymat


If we let the water of combustion sit in the sun for a few days, will that work or does it only need to absorb oxygen from the air?

reply to post by Hobbymat


Tell your experimentalist friends to try and keep bottled water in holy places like churches etc, so that it's infused with magical power of the Holy Spirit. That must really increase the mileage. Amen.

Originally posted by Nightaudit
Hi guys, very interesting topic here. Someone mentioned something about the amount of hho needed to run his 2.4l engine. Please do not forget the compression ratio. If your engine has for example a compression of 10:1, then you only need 1 part of fuel for ten parts of air.

Given your assumption, my 9.2:1 CR 2.4L engine only needs 9.2 parts of air for each part of fuel.... That is an excessively rich mixture likely billowing black smoke out the tail pipe. Typically, my engine runs between 11-12:1 when cold started, quickly coming to 13.8-14.5:1 when warmed up, occasionally going to 15:1 during favorable situations.

CR is the ratio of cylinder volume with the piston at bottom dead center to cylinder volume with the piston at top dead center; in other words how much the piston compresses the air/fuel mixture inside the engine.

Plus I really don´t see problem with conservation of energy here. I see it this way:

You definately CAN run a combustion engine on hydrogen, this is a proven fact.

The question is if you can get enough gas "on the fly", meaning enough liters of gas per minute.

In this example they apparently use less then one kw of power to produce the gas they need to run the engine.
...

Well, lets assume my 2.4L engine's approximate air/fuel mixture requirement of 1796250cc (1796.25L) per minute @ 1500 rpms.... That equates to approximately 29937.5cc (29.9L) per second.... You realize that is approximately 7.9 US gallons per second? Agreed?

The cell would have to generate sufficient H2/O2 mixture, to fill the equivalent to 1/2 the volume of the fuel tank on my truck every second to 1 Bar. If the cell were capable of that volume, it would either pop it's top since the volume of the cell is nowhere near 7.9 US gallons (and that's based on my engine, not the engine on a Ram truck), foul the engine at lower RPM's due to excessive mixture entering the intake/plenum (as I believe the generator is typically 'teed' into the manifold after the throttle body), or would be wasted by backflowing out through the air filter.

A little google on my part and found that 1 gallon of water electroysed to H2/O2 mixture would occupy approximately 1250 gallons/4731.8L (at 1 Bar). Assuming the fuel could generate at a sufficient rate to supply the engine @ 1500RPM, consuming a/f mixture @ a rate of 1769L/Min, that one gallon of water would last me about 2.6 minutes. If I converted my 17 gallon fuel tank into a reservoir for water, that tank would last me about 45 minutes. Distilled water is about $2.00 + cost of the electrolyte solution, so 34-40 to fill up with water to last less than an hour or 60 to fill up for gas that'll last me 4+ hours....?

[edit on 8/24/2010 by abecedarian]

reply to post by abecedarian


Lots of interesting info can be found here. Note the INSANE amperage you will need to convert quantities of water suitable for driving.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by abecedarian

 

Lots of interesting info can be found here. Note the INSANE amperage you will need to convert quantities of water suitable for driving.

From your link:

16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1 gallon of water to hydrogen. The wattage needed depends on the current flow; if an apparatus used 1000 watts, then the hydrogen could be generated in less than a day. However, the current required is too high to do electrolysis at this rate in normal households; an industrial line would most likely be needed. You could generate hydrogen at a slower rate and wattage and still get the conversion done on a 10 amp or 20 amp circuit, but it would take longer.

"Normal households" being typically supplied with 220/240V single phase.


Some people overlook the obvious.

[edit on 8/24/2010 by abecedarian]

great thread
we dont need oil or gas to run vehicles.
we can power cars with water

and now

TRASH

reply to post by Hobbymat


not just from the sun.

apparently water spinning around rocks in streams and experiencing a vortex of sorts adds energy or life to water.

reply to post by buddhasystem


As i suspected...you are completely ignoring what i wrote!

You really do come across as an argumentative and petulant child, i'm afraid.

This isn't the ministry for arguments, that's along a bit and down to the left...why don't you skip along and see if you can find it..goodbye.

To other people interested in these systems, i STRONGLY suggest that you read through Buddhasystem's posts very carefully, paying particular attention to the post being 'answered' by him/her, and then after you have done that, complete dismiss it as the troll like, pseudo-scientific nonsense it really is.

Then go to your favourite search engine and type in HHO research, HHO systems or something like that. If you've not looked into this before, you will be astounded at the potential for these systems.

YouTube, whilst FULL of people seemingly (and strangely) hostile to these technologies and methods, is choc full of videos, tutorials and FREE plans from REAL experimenters and techniques to perform the efficient liberation of the considerable energy trapped in plain old water, using LOW power electrolysis using pulsed DC current, to break the chemical bonds holding H2 and O together (water) to release the unique HHO gas we can make so many uses of.

I must STRESS, that this is NOT 'free energy'...there is an energy cost involved in breaking the bonds of water and liberating the gas, just as there is a cost involved in obtaining, refining and delivering oil in the form of petrol for us to use as a fuel. HHO is a CHEAP fuel, not a free one.

The inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine are still present whether we are burning petrol, natural gas or HHO to run it.

The combustion engine returns around a 40% efficiency (+/-), the rest is lost as mechanical friction, heat and unburnt fuel. Just to reiterate, this happens with petrol and with gas, so it's an irrelevancy to the debate of evolving HHO, and running a car with it, as it effects all types of fuel.

As for vehicles that can or cannot run solely on the HHO gas on demand systems:

www.youtube.com...

It's in Japanese, but you'll get the idea.

And this, about the same company and system, but with English reporters:

www.youtube.com...

There are literally hundreds of examples such as these. For those that deny the technology, you're wrong, plain and simple.

Spout all the math and equations to support your assertion that this is bunk, the pioneers in this field will keep on doing what they do regardless.

ETA:

People who know very little about this subject seem to think that one need to use water on a 1:1 ratio with petrol...this is NOT so.

When you put (for example) one gallon of water into a HHO electrolysis unit, you don't use up that gallon of water as you would use a gallon of petrol.

It doesn't work like that. a gallon of water contains approximately 1,800 gallons of HHO gas (approximately 1800:1 ratio HHO gas to water volume), i don't have the actual figures to hand, but you don't 'squirt' h2o into the cylinders like you do petrol.

Let's EVEN assume that these guys in the OP have their energy requirements to produce their stated 55LPM totally wrong, and are actually using 1000% (10X) the energy they claim to be using to achieve their stated 55LPM HHO liberation from the water.

They say they are using (from the deep cycle battery) 3 Volts and 55 Amps to create 55 liters per minute (just under 1 liter per second). So, 3V X 55A=165Watts continuous energy input required.

Let's multiply that requirement by 1000%, or put another way, times 10.

Now, we have an input energy requirement of 1650 Watts, continuous electrical input to evolve the stated 55 LPM of HHO gas from the H2O.

A 2000W petrol driven electrical generator, (such as this one: hondagenerator.co.uk... this model has a running time of over 10 hours per gallon of petrol @ 1/4 load) with approx a one gallon fuel capacity, this will run delivering the 1600-1700 watts required in the above 10X example, for approximately 3 hours or thereabouts on one full tank holding one gallon, correct?

So, in my wildly over the top example of 1000% (10X) the stated energy input, we can power the HHO reactor displayed in the OP's video, for approximately 3 HOURS on ONE GALLON of petrol, which will yeild approximately 10,000 liters of HHO gas to power the car engine (55LPM X 180 minutes=9,900 liters)

Even a car considered to be very fuel efficient, say achieving 50-70 MPG cannot compete with these figures for input fuel consumption. A direct comparison would be the HHO powered car would achieve (in my 10X example only) approx 150MPG in comparative terms.

The direct comparison would be the HHO system, using 1000% exaggerated fuel input estimates, would be roughly 3 times as efficient as a car burning ordinary petrol conventionally.

Now, at the video's stated input energy of 165Watts (3V X 55A=165W) continuous requirement of input electrical energy to generate 55LPM of HHO gas, the little one gallon petrol generator would be able to produce and supply the required electrical energy for a sustained period of approximately 15-20 hours, until the single gallon fuel tank (on the petrol generator) was used up.

IOW, a single gallon a petrol, used in a petrol generator, used to power the HHO reactor in the video to evolve 55LPM of HHO gas, at the stated efficiencies in the video, would power and run the car for 15-20 hours. EVEN at 10X the stated energy requirement to generate 55LPM HHO, the car would run for around 3 hours on a single gallon of petrol (If used in the generator, running the HHO reactor).

ONE GALLON of petrol.

Can any of you drive your car's combustion engine for more than a hour or two at the most, on a single gallon of petrol? Let alone 3 hours or even 15-20!

The information is out there, almost everywhere you care to look for it.

Or, you can listen to the likes of Buddhasystem, and sit on your hand shaking your head...up to you.

If you like to tinker, i'd strongly advise you to join a specific dedicated forum on HHO and the experiments regarding it, for your own safety...this gas is HIGHLY explosive and powerful, and can be quite dangerous if you are not very careful. If you take the required precautions, and operate safe working practices it is a very fun and rewarding area to research.

BE careful if you decide to experiment, this tech can and HAS killed and
injured people who were cavalier with safety requirements.

DO NOT attempt to compress or store this gas under pressure, this is a use as you make it type deal. The only really safe way of storing this unique gas in any real quantity is utilising powdered metal hydrides as a storage medium.

I myself, was almost deafened by an explosion in the early days of investigating this stuff, so i now treat the tech with the respect it deserves.



















[edit on 25/8/2010 by spikey]

[edit on 25/8/2010 by spikey]

reply to post by spikey


I think it's you who misunderstands buddhasystem. The question isn't whether the technology exists or not, rather the practicality. The technology isn't anything new, in fact I'm pretty sure a similar process is used on nuclear subs to generate oxygen from sea water for breathing purposes. The difference is, they have a nuclear reactor providing a near-endless supply of energy for such purposes.

reply to post by belowcommonknowledge


Well, I am happy that at least one person knows something about this! I recently made a post on HHO, here. The technology is over 90 years old, but BIG OIL has done everything (including kill people) to suppress it from the general public. I have a friend in the Army who tells me they use a hydrogen generator on the tank he was stationed on. I can neither confirm or deny this. My own little generator saves my family about $200 a month is gas savings. That's $200 that I would have put in the tank, that I can now spend on something else. Mechanics everywhere are building these little units....

A Fully Functional HHO Powered Car

Water Powered Cars

The amount needed to fully run a gasoline engine is about 22 litres a minute. The Dodge Pickup in the OP has a generator that produces 55 litres a minute, more than enough. My own little generator will produce maybe 10 litres a minute, not enough to completely run the engine on HHO, but there are other benefits, like running a clean engine and getting over 35 miles to the gallon of gas.

I am a professional automobile mechanic, but anyone with a few tools, who can read instructions, and isn't afraid can install one of these and enjoy the benefits. The benefits are, outside saving the car owner a lot of money in gas, a cleaner engine, a quieter engine, and a lot more POWER! HHO cleans out all of the Carbon, and Sulphur that collects in an internal combustion engine. The thing that surprised me most was how quiet my 350 Chevy runs now, I can hear the stereo a lot better now, and can hear my wife when she says something to me!

There are lots of websites out there selling HHO Generators. Shopper beware, some are crooks, just like with any other business. The unit I have could be built at home, with a few parts ordered, such as bubbler, check valves, fittings, but the basis is a wide mouth Mason Jar. Here is a forum that deals with HHO technology.

Our illustrious government will be happy to tell you that hydrogen is very hard to produce, and scarce even, but those are big fat lies. Earth has water, water everywhere, and even though I would not recommend using sea water in a reactor, I am sure it could be done. Hydrogen and Oxygen are what makes up water, and when an electrical charge is applied through a plate, both, wire, positive and negative, the hydrogen/oxygen molecules are forced apart into a gaseous state, and the Oxy/Hyd gasses are remixed, making HHO, or Brown's Gas. Twice as much hydrogen as oxygen.

The fact is, if most of Americans began to run their cars and trucks on HHO, what would big oil do? That would be the end of drilling for oil, which, IMHO, is never a good thing, for the planet, or us humans. I also happen to think that all of the plastic bags we see everywhere should be made of hemp, or some other biodegradable product, and toys need to be made of metal, not plastic. Together we can clean up our part of the world, and hey, this technology could revolutionize driving, and we could see a return of ultra high performance engines again. Think about it, talk about it, read about!
Cheers.

Originally posted by spikey
A 2000W petrol driven electrical generator, (such as this one: hondagenerator.co.uk... this model has a running time of over 10 hours per gallon of petrol @ 1/4 load) with approx a one gallon fuel capacity, this will run delivering the 1600-1700 watts required in the above 10X example, for approximately 3 hours or thereabouts on one full tank holding one gallon, correct?

2000W is just under 3 horsepower. This is the power you supply to your truck, while burning gasoline and using that energy to produce H2 and O2. These 2000W is the only power input into your truck, so at the very best you'll have to drive with 3 HP, and still burning gas. What fun it is?

Another useful link

Let's do a little math:

Energy density of H2 is 120 MJ/kg at NTP, and it's mass density is 0.09 kg/m3 at NTP. So we get roughly 12MJ per cubic meter, or 12 kJ per on liter. During electrolysis, the ratio of volumes of H and O is 2:1 (because the water molecule is H2O). So we have 36 liters per minute in one of the above examples, of hydrogen to work with. Let compute the power output of such quantity of hydrogen being burned:

12kJ*36L/60sec=7.2 kW which is almost exactly 10 horse power, assuming 100% efficiency of internal combustion. With more realistic 50%, you get 5 HP under your hood.

I've never driven a 5HP truck, have you?

reply to post by buddhasystem


Now i'm certain you're a troll.

I explained the purpose of the external 2000W petrol generator in boring detail, to the point of being extremely patronising.

Several times i have fully explained and several times you completely ignore what i went to great lengths to convey.

If you have trouble reading or understanding my posts ask a 10 year old kid to read it and explain it to you.

Don't bother replying to my posts again, you're on my ignore list.

Go and be silly elsewhere, i'm not playing the game with you anymore.


[edit on 25/8/2010 by spikey]

Bob Lazar has one of these cars too, a corvette.

I made a thread about it, and there is a great deal of discussion of how it works, if anybody wants to take a look. (Not trying to pimp my old thread, I just thought some of you might find it interesting).

www.abovetopsecret.com...

OK, since spikey dropped out of this particular angle of discussion, can somebody explain to me how it's possible to drive a truck with 3HP energy input, from gasoline or ANY other source? Sure you'll move, just not very fast

Originally posted by spikey
The combustion engine returns around a 40% efficiency (+/-), the rest is lost as mechanical friction, heat and unburnt fuel. Just to reiterate, this happens with petrol and with gas, so it's an irrelevancy to the debate of evolving HHO, and running a car with it, as it effects all types of fuel.

People who know very little about this subject seem to think that one need to use water on a 1:1 ratio with petrol...this is NOT so.

When you put (for example) one gallon of water into a HHO electrolysis unit, you don't use up that gallon of water as you would use a gallon of petrol.

Actually, yes you do. The water is fuel, right? It just doesn't know it yet.

It doesn't work like that. a gallon of water contains approximately 1,800 gallons of HHO gas (approximately 1800:1 ratio HHO gas to water volume), i don't have the actual figures to hand, but you don't 'squirt' h2o into the cylinders like you do petrol.

I heard 1250 gallons.

Let's EVEN assume that these guys in the OP have their energy requirements to produce their stated 55LPM totally wrong, and are actually using 1000% (10X) the energy they claim to be using to achieve their stated 55LPM HHO liberation from the water.

They say they are using (from the deep cycle battery) 3 Volts and 55 Amps to create 55 liters per minute (just under 1 liter per second). So, 3V X 55A=165Watts continuous energy input required.

Let's multiply that requirement by 1000%, or put another way, times 10.

Now, we have an input energy requirement of 1650 Watts, continuous electrical input to evolve the stated 55 LPM of HHO gas from the H2O.

A 2000W petrol driven electrical generator, (such as this one: hondagenerator.co.uk... this model has a running time of over 10 hours per gallon of petrol @ 1/4 load) with approx a one gallon fuel capacity, this will run delivering the 1600-1700 watts required in the above 10X example, for approximately 3 hours or thereabouts on one full tank holding one gallon, correct?

So, in my wildly over the top example of 1000% (10X) the stated energy input, we can power the HHO reactor displayed in the OP's video, for approximately 3 HOURS on ONE GALLON of petrol, which will yeild approximately 10,000 liters of HHO gas to power the car engine (55LPM X 180 minutes=9,900 liters)

Even a car considered to be very fuel efficient, say achieving 50-70 MPG cannot compete with these figures for input fuel consumption. A direct comparison would be the HHO powered car would achieve (in my 10X example only) approx 150MPG in comparative terms.

The direct comparison would be the HHO system, using 1000% exaggerated fuel input estimates, would be roughly 3 times as efficient as a car burning ordinary petrol conventionally.

Now, at the video's stated input energy of 165Watts (3V X 55A=165W) continuous requirement of input electrical energy to generate 55LPM of HHO gas, the little one gallon petrol generator would be able to produce and supply the required electrical energy for a sustained period of approximately 15-20 hours, until the single gallon fuel tank (on the petrol generator) was used up.

IOW, a single gallon a petrol, used in a petrol generator, used to power the HHO reactor in the video to evolve 55LPM of HHO gas, at the stated efficiencies in the video, would power and run the car for 15-20 hours. EVEN at 10X the stated energy requirement to generate 55LPM HHO, the car would run for around 3 hours on a single gallon of petrol (If used in the generator, running the HHO reactor).

ONE GALLON of petrol.

Can any of you drive your car's combustion engine for more than a hour or two at the most, on a single gallon of petrol? Let alone 3 hours or even 15-20!

The information is out there, almost everywhere you care to look for it.

Or, you can listen to the likes of Buddhasystem, and sit on your hand shaking your head...up to you.

>snip

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Bob Lazar has one of these cars too, a corvette.

I made a thread about it, and there is a great deal of discussion of how it works, if anybody wants to take a look. (Not trying to pimp my old thread, I just thought some of you might find it interesting).

Yes the technology is very similar in Lazar's case. However Lazar makes the point I've been trying to make that these truck guys don't even mention. If you're not using solar power to create the hydrogen from water, I'm not sure how economical this technology really is. Lazar makes the point that using solar power to make the hydrogen would be a viable option even though he was using another method, as I recall. And at no point does Lazar claim he's running his car with water.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
OK, since spikey dropped out of this particular angle of discussion, can somebody explain to me how it's possible to drive a truck with 3HP energy input, from gasoline or ANY other source? Sure you'll move, just not very fast

I just noticed this from the OP link:

Chava Energy was present on August 21 to validate the technology. However, it turned out that the claimed technology was not in a condition to be tested during the visit and the Inventor Fred Wells was not present either, only his business partner. Therefore, none of the claims could be validated and Chava Energy generously offered to conduct a test in the future once the system is running reliably.

Why am I not surprised???

Somebody shows up to try to validate the claims these guys make and the "claimed technology was not in a condition to be tested during the visit"??? Something tells me the next time they show up to validate the claims, it still won't be in a condition to be tested, because while I didn't exactly hear them tell any direct lies, it's more of falsehood through omission, they aren't telling us everything. Like how much energy they have to expend to keep the deep cycle batteries charged, for example.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

And at no point does Lazar claim he's running his car with water.

He has a particle accelerator to obtain hydrogen from water.
I think you know that. Just saying.

reply to post by abecedarian


See, this is just more propaganda, don't fall for it. My little Mason Jar unit operates on 5 Amps at 12 Volts from my van's 100 Amp alternator. Another thing the math guys didn't mention is the expansion rate of HHO. Hydrogen has an expansion rate of 1:848 which means the car uses 472L/Km H2 gas. Assume a nice speed of 100KPH, and you get a fuel
demand of 787 LPM. Do your research on a thing before letting people talk you out of it. I only have $145 in my system, and I wouldn't take that for it. I love the gas savings and the clean engine, and I hate big oil.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by abecedarian

 

See, this is just more propaganda, don't fall for it. My little Mason Jar unit operates on 5 Amps at 12 Volts from my van's 100 Amp alternator. Another thing the math guys didn't mention is the expansion rate of HHO. Hydrogen has an expansion rate of 1:848 which means the car uses 472L/Km H2 gas. Assume a nice speed of 100KPH, and you get a fuel
demand of 787 LPM. Do your research on a thing before letting people talk you out of it. I only have $145 in my system, and I wouldn't take that for it. I love the gas savings and the clean engine, and I hate big oil.

Yep, do some research.
The expansion rate of hydrogen has little to do with fuel consumption as consumption is determined by the ratio of fuel to oxygen / atmosphere, the desired power output of the engine and the engine's speed among other things.
And how about some math of your own to justify your figures?

I've been doing some research myself and found various HHO generators' production rates from 0.1 to 3 Litre per minute.... A far cry from the 787 LPM requirement mentioned above, though likely sufficient for using HHO as a "supplement" to burning gas or diesel.

3 LPM claim here.

[edit on 8/26/2010 by abecedarian]