Are religious folks ethically challenged?

I think the people claiming that religion is the only source of morals are simply confusing their morals with other peoples morals. like I said morals are relative. and they are balanced against other things like survival needs.

Cannabalism-could be moral if it's a survival thing. could be immoral if you are the sick and injured after a plane crash and don't give your self up as food to the rest of the people so that they may survive long enough to be rescued.
What if you are cannabalizing others because you think it appeases your god. technically since it's handed down by a diety it's moral. human sacrifice-sounds a lot like the first testament to me. no wait that can't be right cause God told us not to kill others cause it's immoral, unless god tells you to kill your own son simply to stroke Gods ego. than it's perfectly moral. as you see morality is relative especially if you are going to use religion as the benchmark of whats moral and what isn't morals are separate from religion.

reply to post by AllIsOne


The proof comes from within.....it won't come from someone else's mouth. Living vicariously through someone else's discoveries is very dangerous, IMHO.

Originally posted by State of Mind
What a ridiculous post.

People are racist, or they are not.

Ah, a baby is born a racist and another is not??? Conditioning and parents have nothing to do with it?

Try harder, you can do it ...

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
come on badgerprints try harder than that last post to explain your stance regarding proving what is evil and what isn't we need more than that.

No.

You really don't.

Spend a few days in downtown Basra watching them clean up a few dozen bodies worth of blood...or Washington DC when congress is in session. You'll get your proof of evil

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

The proof comes from within.....it won't come from someone else's mouth. Living vicariously through someone else's discoveries is very dangerous, IMHO.

I guess you don't drive a car. Science, engineering is based on what you deny.

reply to post by AllIsOne


we are talking about the possiblity of god not tangible objects like cars, and computers and what not..... proof of a deity is not comparable to proof of a car wouldn't you agree?

OK badgerprints. I think you are confusing pathology with black and white (evil and good) it's always somewhere in between. it's all gray.

Humans in comfortable positions can afford to toss aside morals for personal gain and turn back into the alpha male (in regards to politicians) again. but wait these are religious folk (or they claim to be) but what about the inquisition or the crusades. they aren't immoral because these are faith based actions following the dictation of the bible. torturing, murdering, framing people and destroying whole communities. all OK depending on your perspective. it's relative.

Basra? what are you getting at there. dead people. were they killed by some serial killer, by some military, for religious reasons. which dead people in basra are you talking about.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
If you had a strong sense of what is right and wrong you wouldn't need that kind of a crutch.

Actually my dependency on God is a lot more than a "crutch" to keep me from falling over. I would compare it more to a huge solid rock upon which I rest.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
heres my take on morals. Religion doesn't give anybody morals at all. I think religion and morals are a non issue.

I believe that since humans are generally a social species that requires by and large the support of other humans to survive morals are actually a part of our hard wiring. human morals are actually a by product of our social evolution.

No morals hardwired over time into the homo sapiens brain= no human species because we wouldn't have gotten this far without mutual cooperation.

Religions would actually have more risk of corrupting our morals by overriding our natural hardwiring with a lot of it's nonsense.

"hardwiring" give me a break. What about free will? If what your saying is true then it should be ok in extreme circumstances for a human to eat there own or someone elses young to survive. If hardwiring is true then it should be ok for me to kill you or others for gain or reproductive rights.

I think I'll stay with the religious instilled morals.

yeah loken you got it. it is moral depending on the purpose. what about slaying any disbelievers in your religion. killing everybody, man woman and child because they worshiped ba'al or something. thats not immoral to you because it's an act commissioned by your god. well I'm sure to the victims it's immoral and evil. but wait it can't be cause it's handed down via religious morals.

Morals are basically hardwired into us. those that don't have the same subset of social codes, ethics,morals than the majority are pathological anti-socials by definition. the morals change as the situation demands. check out history. geeze simply check out how your own morals fluctuate through out the day. morals are dynamic not set in stone. they are primarily survival based not religious. they have evolved with us as a species not given to us by a imaginary figure.

You say I am confusing social precepts with your idea of morality. I think you guys are just putting the scrambled eggs before the egg or even the chicken for that matter. morals have a deep, deep biological root. not religious.

Originally posted by AllIsOne

Originally posted by State of Mind
What a ridiculous post.

People are racist, or they are not.

Ah, a baby is born a racist and another is not??? Conditioning and parents have nothing to do with it?

Try harder, you can do it ...

I don't think you understand. I said PEOPLE are racist or they are not. I did not say babies, and I think most intelligent people would gather that my post was referring to adults.

If you are a racist, then you can use religion or science as a platform to further your racist agenda.

Try a little harder next time, and I'm sure that little hamster wheel might start turning...

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

we are talking about the possiblity of god not tangible objects like cars, and computers and what not..... proof of a deity is not comparable to proof of a car wouldn't you agree?

There is no such thing as proof of a deity.

Even if your specific deity came down to earth with clouds following him, that could all be done through technology.

There is no conclusive way to prove anything as a deity.

Now my question, is why would someone punish you for not believing in something that cannot be proven by any means?

[edit on 22-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by hippomchippo


wasn't talking to you, public forum yes, but this was directed at the OP, follow the train of posts and you'll see why we came to this point. it was he/she who made the leap to this not me. if you can see my original post I said speak for yourself that agnosticism is the "way"

there is no need to go off on a tangent about "proofs" of god. aha thanks for playing hippo

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

wasn't talking to you, public forum yes, but this was directed at the OP, follow the train of posts and you'll see why we came to this point. it was he/she who made the leap to this not me. if you can see my original post I said speak for yourself that agnosticism is the "way"

there is no need to go off on a tangent about "proofs" of god. aha thanks for playing hippo

Sorry for responding to your post?
I wasn't trying to argue or anything, I was just making a point about proving God.
Relax.

reply to post by hippomchippo


I am relaxed! I am Arien (aries) so often my posts can sound blunt and impulsive but that is my nature so I apologize!

well, I dont need books to tell me whats right and whats wrong, I dont need anyone telling me that, I just know

the problem with the statement above is that I build my mind thought many years of getting different information, and some people just get poor information, information from people that are not "good" ... then they become broke

but I would like to do a survey, do you need a book to tell u whats right and whats wrong right now, or do you know whats right and whats wrong by your experiences?

its all about experiences ... I believe everyone knows whats right and wrong for them, but that doesnt mean that their views are not problematic to the society ...

its a deep subject ...

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
killing everybody, man woman and child because they worshiped ba'al or something

Children and infants never worshiped Baal… they were physically, sexually abused, tortured and burned alive as a sacrifice to Baal. When it comes to the campaigns conducted by the 12 tribes of Israel under the instructions of I AM it is inappropriate to pull them out of context to judge the ethics of these campaigns. This subject must be treated as a separate topic because these campaigns were under the instructions of I AM and must be viewed from his perspective. I AM’s perspective is within the context of a Grand Plan being carried out for this current age which culminates with the final resurrection of the dead to the “Final Judgment” where many will be given eternal life.

reply to post by State of Mind


When you're a little calmer you should try to grasp what I was trying to get across. If you still don't get it call me (U2U).

Ciao

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

we are talking about the possiblity of god not tangible objects like cars, and computers and what not..... proof of a deity is not comparable to proof of a car wouldn't you agree?

Didn't you just give a perfect example for agnosticism? Please explain, because I think you're actually in my corner.

"can't beat em join em"? Not quite. I believe this is just an example of a circular argument. I know you are smarter than this so I'll leave you to figure it out. Just follow the trail of posts and I think you'll find where you got sidetracked. Don't bother replying, as I wont be back to look how you respond. In fact I am deleting this from my subscription of recent posts, because I feel this thread is going nowhere.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
Didn't you just give a perfect example for agnosticism?

"perfect" is relative to the observer. I think it would do you much good to read the thread in my signature.....