Drunk On-Duty Cop Kills - Mayor Calls In FBI

Looks like they have another case of driving drunk by a veteran officer.

I wonder if the Feds have dug this one up?

www.wishtv.com...

Serious changes need to be implemented if they wish to gain some respect back. The chief should be fired.

reply to post by Xcathdra


This happened to someone I knew personally a couple or so years back, the cop now works for the feds....might have then for all I know. As far as I know no mention was made in the paper of the incident. He is well known for going after those that piss him off so forgive me if I keep the name to myself

Let me state up front I am not a "kill all the pigs" person, I have seen very good cops and those that were FAR worse than those they arrested.

I just feel that when you give someone too much power without ANY checks or balances you invite abbuse, the abuse of the drug war laws and the patriot act are prime examples

Originally posted by Xcathdra

I dont work for Indiana so this is a guess at best. A Blood draw can be done in any Hospital or / EMS (Most states require it be someone above the title of medical tech with the exception of a phlebotomist (all they do is blood draws for the lab). The one question that is not answered is if the officer was injured and transported to the Hospital, and whether he was concious or unconcious. Keep in mind that medical problems that are severe will almost always supercede a criminal investigation.

Had this been a civilian vs civilian dwi accident, the same standard is going to apply as the law enforcement incident.

To clear something up, the tech who did the draw did not work for a Law Enforcement agency. The tech worked for the Hospital. Generally speaking anyone in a Hospital who is authorized to draw blood can do a blood draw for Law Enforcement. However some states, like Indiana we learned, has a higher standard for a blood draw for a criminal investigaion (The law will error on the side of caution for the accused, ensuring a fair chance).

Okay. The officer was not injured. He was filmed at the scene by the local news. They showed him getting out of a car, walking around, still sporting his sunglasses.

He was not taken to the hospital the police use for these tests. He was taken to a clinic, Methodist Occupational Health facility.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

If the officers on scene acted as if it were just another dwi accident, its still possible something can get goofed, at which point its going to look like it was done on purpose to get the cop off.

If the officer didnt act, and something goes wrong, its going to look like they were covering something up.

Bingo. They didn't act as if it were just another DWI accident. Which in fact, it was.
They didn't act. Nearly two and a half hours later, they took him to an occupational health facility. They obviously knew this was not good enough.
They goofed. It looks like they did it on purpose.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Am I saying there arent bad cops out there.. No. What I am saying is we are human and will fail and make mistakes. The one thing that annoys me though about these forums is the ability for people who have no understanding on how the law works aside from watching law and order. People have a bad experience with an officer, and all of a sudden all cops are crooked and evil.

True, but that's not the only place we get our opinions. We see things, we hear things. We read. We pay attention.
The problem is obviously more than television. There are real bad guys out there, we know police have to protect themselves, and other officers. This is not about that. This is about purposely covering up another officer's criminal acts... and committing their own crimes in order to do so.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

All I ask is for people to consider the possibility that the law porevents us from doing something that looks like common sense to the general population. You guys dont want us to falsey accuse you of doing something, and all we ask is the same courtesy.

and please dont get me wrong.. I am not trying to cover or condone this guys actions.

Thanks.

You're obviously on the right side of this, at least the right of middle, and I appreciate your questions and opinions.
I hope you, or really any police officers out there, will not take this personally as any sort of affront, other than what the general public thinks when these things are perpetrated.

reply to post by Dogdish


As for taking offense to comments.. It just depends on what those comments are and who they are directed at.. I dont take it personally, however I take it professionaly becase, as others have stated, its puts my profession into a bad light. Then we get the blanket statements that all cops are .

I dont hold the people making the comments accountible, but the officers who decide they want to be incompetant giving the impression we are above the law.

What I was saying about trweating it like a DWI accident is when we roll up on an accident involving any emergency vehicle, automaticcaly categorizing it as a DWI is usually on the bottom of the checklist unless something obvious jumps out (alcohol / liquer, slurred speech, loss of fine motor control, etc, etc). And even then, at least my thought process, medical conditions come to mind first (Kedoacidosis).

As far as the police not smeeling alcohol and paramedics did is an easy explanation. On these types of scenes we are dealing wth ensuring no more loss of life (stop traffic, attend to wounded, give basic medical updates to dispatch, etc). We are constantly moving around on scene, gathering IDs, insurance, photos, measurments (skid marks, speed, etc). Its very easy to miss an odor while moving around.

Paramedics on the other hand do the one on one with injured victims. They go through a much more in depth medical checklist than Law Enforcement (for the most part we are considered medical first responders, howver most places train us just below that of Firefighters). The reason behind it is job responsibility on scene.

Its absolutely possible the cops were trying to cover up and protect this officer as it has happened before.

As far as the Blood Draw question about what clinic / hospital they went to. Where did you find that info, because apparently I must have missed it. You generally take people to the closest medical facility that is able to either fix the problem, or at the very least stabilze the patient for transfer to a larger facility.

I am going to guess the clinic was the closest place available.


I fully support citizens keeping an eye on Law Enforcement, but there is a right and wrong way to do it. I wish there was a better way to get the general population informed about what it is we can and cant do, what their rights are and how our jobs intersects with those rights.

Some of the comments I have seen on here are so far out past left field its not even funny. Its like when I remove people from private property that is open to the public (Hospital for instance). Yes, you have a right to move freely within states, you have the right to your 1st amendment. These rights though come to a halt on private property other than your own.

Anyways, thanks for responding. Sorry if I come across strongly, this area just torques me off like no other. Its hard enough doing my job... Its even worse when cops do stupid crap that make all of us look incometent while at the very same time it causes the general population to question all Law Enforcement.



[edit on 23-8-2010 by Xcathdra]

All cops are not bad apples. Thats the anti-everything clique spouting off their traps because its about all they get others to agree with them on. One fact is that the majority of those who hate cops, are the same scumbags who keep on getting caught. But they can't figure out why. Or, they are the people who are always against any kind of authority. Be it teachers, cops, referees or anyone in such a position. And they are a dime a dozen so really, not much going on there as far as these folks go.

Law enforcement draws from society to fill positions. These folks were bad before they were cops.

I'll tell ya'll whose bad...The idiots fast food places make work their drive thru windows. They can't hear. They can't count unless the cash register tells them how much change to give back. They don't know what napkins are. Or straws. And they never learned that a large order of fries requires more than 1 pack of ketchup.







[edit on 8/24/2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well, you've really opened my eyes here, and thank you for that.

I see that I've completely discounted the fact that those officers were very likely the first on the scene, and were first to face the carnage.
It's the very reason I never became a policeman. Not for lack of opportunity, I just wouldn't have the stomach for this part of your job.

A policeman once saved a good friend of mine just by knowing to turn his head enough to keep him from drowning in his own blood. To be fair, the friend was an innocent bystander whose car was hit head-on by the suspect in a high speed chase... I don't remember the purpose of the chase. This happened a long time ago.

It's also very interesting to me that you've mentioned ketoacidosis on more than one post. I never thought it would be a consideration for the police. I do hope you've taken a position on the "force" which gives you a chance to show others the right way to do things.

No need for any apologies from you, even if it was just good manners. I used your posts as a springboard for mine, because they were well considered, to the point and intelligently asked... the same as I did to boondock-saint, earlier in the thread... I still need to apologize for that!

As for the name of the clinic, it's in the original post, and Here.
"Background and Timeline", it's on the right side of the page at the link, "Related Information, Timeline of events".

I agree it's wrong to wrong to assume that these cops are indicative of all other police officer's attitude and intent, but then, I've seen it both ways. The good ones have a hard row to hoe, but then, isn't that always the way?

Cops are human beings that do make mistakes, cops however are not only considered to be part of a "protected class" under the law (at least in Pennsylvania) but they are supposed to be held to a higher standard than most citizens. When I was a Marine we were told that we are held to a higher standard and that is one reason to be held by not only the UCMJ but also common law in which the high chance that should we as marines break the law we can be charged in both areas of court like a double punishment for the same crime(s). That being said I have never been robbed by an armed criminal however I have been fined on crap charges. I have never had a gun pulled on me by a street thug but i have been drawn down on by cops for just being in an area. I have more bad experiences with cops than I do with criminals. I live right down the street from a very good police department with a bunch of cops that not only are very professional but cops that I can trust if I needed help and ones that can hang out too, however you cross the county lines and get into Harrisburg PA game on the cops there are callous, cynical, and really dont care about you, your rights, your property, or your safety. I have had many run ins with the law there most of the time for no reason and you can see the difference it is huge and very apparent. So you do got your good ones you got your bad ones and then in my opinion you got the ones that shouldnt be cops there like action figures made in china they break quickly and cause cancer.

reply to post by Dogdish

This is insane. Cops NEED to know thier place and their purpose and that they are responsible TO the POEPLE. They take an oath which really means nothing to them. Not all cops are bad but very few KNOW what their duty is or what their place is, they ARE public employees, WE are the public and we should be their boss!!!

BUT.............
Understand this, understand this completely.............ALL police officers, ALL POLICE OFFICERS are nothing more than CORPORATE SECURITY GUARDS!!!!!!!

Each city is incorporated, YOU are property of the State and Federal Government, that has been exposed on ATS so many times now, it IS the truth. SO....when you do not follow COMPANY POLICY (City Ordinances) you get cited and fined or jailed for disobeying the city ordinace and rules by the security guards.

So what do we do to stop this insanity? Call the Sheriff whenever you are stopped or harassed by the police, the Sheriff IS elected BY THE PEOPLE, he is the ultimate LAW enforcement officer, not Statute or ordinance enforcer, but LAW, Common Law, your natural rights!!

[edit on 24-8-2010 by daddio]

the police are a corrupt bunch , their hire pattern of only enlisting room temperature IQ candidates into the ranks will ensure that the federal state and local governments of the united states can continue to use law enforcment as a terror weapon against innocent civilians ,

when blatent misconduct like the topic of this thread is exposed it is a forgone conclusion that it will go un punished, quite disgusting

they dont call oppressive degenerate governments "police states" for nothing.

I'm not convinced he was intoxicated. The lab tech wasn't certified, meaning trained.. it's not inconceivable someone not trained to handle criminal evidence could confuse samples, botch the test, otherwise error big time.

Proper BAC testing if possible with DNA results confirming it's the cops blood would help.

...the lab tech who drew Bisard's blood sample was not certified under Indiana's DUI laws to do such work for a criminal case. Therefore the test results would almost certainly be inadmissible in court.

Plus Bisard passed through a whole lot of cops in the locker room, at briefing, at the station... who would not at all appreciate an armed drunk watching their back. How about any un-invested citizens Bisard might have contacted?, any of them notice he was intoxicated?

If he was drinking in uniform, he's a reckless unprofessional danger who earned his fate.. but I've experienced lab malfunctions, some of these labs are assembly line like.. although really good at what they do.. mistakes happen.. this poor dude could have been sober as a judge and a victim of a mix-up.

reply to post by GovtFlu

Timeline of events
Friday, Aug. 6, 2010
» 8 a.m.: IMPD officer David Bisard takes his patrol car to the police garage for an oil change.
» 9:30 a.m.: Bisard drives to his home on the city's Northside to take his kids to soccer camp.
» 10 a.m. to 11 a.m.: Bisard returns home, takes a shower, puts on his uniform and gets his police dog, Brix.
» 11 a.m.: Brisard marks "in service," meaning he and Brix have started work without attending roll call.
» 11:21 a.m.: Bisard's squad car crashes into three motorcyclists at 56th and Brendan Way South Drive.
» 12:01 p.m.: Eric Wells, 30, one of the motorcyclists, is pronounced dead at Methodist Hospital.
» 1:09 p.m.: Police arrive at Methodist Occupational Health facility to give Bisard a blood test. » 1:48 p.m.: Bisard has blood taken.

As can be seen from the timeline above, Bisard didn't attend a roll call that day, and hadn't interacted with any other officers up to the point he calls "in service", at 11:00.
How many other people did he interact with in the 21 minutes it took until he; in the city, driving 65 to 70mph, plowed into the group of motorcyclists waiting at the red light?
Perhaps it doesn't take an hour to shower (no hair to wash or comb), dress and put the dog in the car.
Perhaps he dug into the half gallon of booze he was filmed purchasing the night before, at the local CVS.
Who buys liquor by the half-gallon??? Alcoholics do.
I'm sorry to hear about your lab mishaps, but I don't believe this is the case.
Perhaps the FBI will figure it out.

reply to post by GovtFlu


From what I have seen I think what the court (in this case the Prosecuting Attorney) is not so much the training, but testimony. Defense can call into question evidence collected by challenging the manner it was collected in.

Anyone can draw blood. Put a piece of tight cloth / rubber around the upper arm, wait for the Antcubital to pop, poke etc. The problem now is having to testify that the process was done correctly.

Our blood draw kits we use for law enforcment in my state require us to keep eveything as evidence, including the alcohol swab that comes in the kit. If any of those things are missing, it could be possible to have the evidence thrown out (This is one of those areas of Law where its designed to protect the accused).

The other thing is even if the evidence was collected correctly, it can be challenged, and if the person who collected it tesifies like a moron (it happens) it could cause it to be tossed that way also.

If you want to see how the sugness of some cops affect our profession read Arizone Vs. Gant. It is a search incident to arrest case where the evidence was thrown out becuase during the trial, defense asked the cop a question along the lines of why did you search my clients vehicle.

Instead of replying it was a search incident to arrest, he become arrogant and respnded because I can. So 4 appeals later it goes to the USSC, who rules in favor of the criminal, and boom, all law enforcement nation wide just got restricted on what we can search when effecting an arrest involving a motor vehicle.


To the person who made comments about us being cirporations, refusing to acknowledge municipal law enforcement and sheriffs departments. You are not quite correct. When a city is incorperated, the citizens who are part of that process all decide what type of Government the city will have. The Chief of Police are gernally appointed by a city manager, who is appointed by City Council, who are in turn elected by the people to represent them.

The authority of Municipal officers comes from the people, the same as Sheriffs deputies. Contrary to popular belief though, the question about jurisdiction is pretty much a moot point due to traingin and changes in the law. The State I work in, I carry a class A certification. Even though I work for a city, I have full arrest authority anywhere in my state.

There are some setups where polie chiefs are elected (Wilson Oklahoma is one of them).

Sheriffs departments are reuired ONLY to run and maintain a jail, court, and civil process. They are not required to have a road patrol for unincorperated areas.

The question you need to ask yourself is which setup (Sheriff or Chief) works best for accountability? As a sheriff, they have to run for re-election, meaning polotics comes into play every election year. When you have a different sheriff elected, you know have the issues of loosing your command staff and experience because sheriffs usually will appoint their co workers from other places to those positions. By the time they can be comfortable in knowing what they are doing, election time comes and you run the risk of yet another sheriff coming in.

As a Chief, you do not have to worry so much about Politics getting in the way of doing the peoples work. Thats what City Council is for.

They both have pros and cons...

Just an up-date:
The FBI is supposed to release their report today, I haven't heard anything.
It (the report) was supposedly completed two weeks ago, but delayed for no reason given. (It would have been right before the election, and maybe they were hoping for worse weather to keep the biker protests down.)

reply to post by Dogdish


The FBI investigative report would be turned over to the Department of Justice for review to determine if charges will be filed at the Federal Level. Its possible with the elections this was delayed some with the number of DOJ employees sent to monitor elections in several states that reported discrepancies with ballots, etc.

I am curious to see the results of this, and am wondering why the same complaints are not filed in Colorado where the PA reduced felony charges to a misdemeanor count because the guy is a millionaire and a felony charge could jeopardize his job.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Totally agree, too. LOTS of examples from PA, I'm sure.

It seems the FBI fell down on this one, they have essentially decided there was no attempt at cover up, just bad police work.
I don't have the full story, there was a fire at a strip mall this morning, so virtually nothing else mattered. (yesterday, an apartment complex burned, and 30 people lost their homes, but it was nowhere near as important as this fire in a strip mall)
Anyway, FOX had the agent on, but I only caught the end of the interview. Pretty much, cops need more training to be able to differentiate between an accident and a crime.

Reminds me of this. (sadly)

I'm going to put it right on the line. There's been a lot of complaints already. Fooling around on the course, bad language, smoking grass, poor caddying.

Lou Loomis, Caddyshack

Update and a link to previous articles:

INDIANAPOLIS -- The family of a man who died when an Indianapolis police officer hit a group of motorcyclists at a red light earlier this year filed suit against the city, police and the officer, seeking millions.

TheIndyChannel

Wells and his wife had been married just 22 months before the crash. Bisard remains suspended, pending termination from the Indianapolis Metro Police Department.

I know cops, I am related to cops, I am friends with cops. They are people, wide assortment of people.
But it seems agencies from all over the country are having to with more and more bad eggs.
It started with covering for minor mistakes, which is probably common in any company or agency.
Not exactly the right thing to do, but it was a given.
But the situations are getting more dangerous, and cover ups more ridiculous.
How do you reform a system than investigates itself? Or is investigated by another agency full of associates, and colleagues?
Where do you begin?

reply to post by spacedoubt


I sure don't know. The Mayor brought in the FBI, who turned out to be as ineffectual as the police at the scene.

From the article linked above:

"We're gonna depose everybody that was at the scene, particularly the supervisors," said Linda Pence, an attorney representing the Wells family. "I want to know exactly what happened there, why they stood around him in a protective circle."

Update:
New Prosecutor:

New prosecutor takes oath of office

Indianapolis--Terry Curry took the oath of office at the Arrestee Processing Center at midnight, and become the latest Marion County prosecutor. Eyewitness News asked Curry about the steps he'll take in Officer David Bisard's case. He's the metro police officer accused of driving drunk and hitting three motorcyclists.
Curry says the prosecutor's office may re-file alcohol charges.
"I was convinced, as I said during the campaign, that the [blood] draw was appropriate under existing law." Curry said. "The law's a little ambiguous, but I believe that if there is an ambiguity there then it should fall to a judge to make that final decision."
Curry replaces outgoing Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi, who held the office for eight years.

As new prosecutor, Curry vows to restore trust

Fresh from his victory in the race for Marion County prosecutor, Democrat Terry Curry expressed a singular goal tonight — to restore trust in the office he has won.
“We need to not only restore trust in the prosecutor’s office but our police department as well,” Curry said. “We’re going to take every step we can … to engage the community in a collective and collaborative effort to address public safety issues. The message is we need a clean break from where we’ve been for the last eight years.”

So, the Democrats won a spot that has been held by a republican for 16 years. Maybe people want change.
Also, another 'policeman' was reported by 'multiple' witnesses as driving drunk. No charges. (yet?)
IMPD Officer on Leave, Witnesses Accuse Him of Drinking and Driving

"I have not seen a drunk driver like that in a very long time," said Rita Veatch, who witnessed the erratic driving and called 911.
At first, Veatch thought the officer behind the wheel may have been distracted by a computer in his cruiser, but as she began following the squad car on I-465 she says the driving got worse.
"The officer was going from lane to lane," Veatch said. "Not putting on his turn signal and going all the way from the left lane to the right lane. Then we knew he was drunk. Then he almost side swiped an SUV."
After Veatch called 911 she says she reached speeds of 85 to 90 miles per hour while trying to relay a license plate number to authorities. Minutes later the cruiser stopped on the interstate and she says it appeared as though the officer got out to urinate.
"I come to a complete stop on 465 in front of him," Veatch said. "And watched him run down the hill."
The car was assigned to IMPD K9 officer Ron Santa. IMPD investigators told witnesses they went to the officer's house several hours later where sources tell Fox 59 Santa tested positive for alcohol.