Lies, Aspersions and Calumny

Lies, Aspersions and Calumny: A Research Project

Introduction

Greetings ATS. Thank you for reading “Lies, Aspersions, and Calumny”. This is indeed an area which effects all of us in both our personal lives and our professional lives. I've observed the lies and manipulations of others for a period of time, and have come to the conclusion that dealing with such antics is unavoidable. Consequently, I set about to obtain a more encompassing understanding of lies, and the people who tell them. It is hoped that as we gain information concerning the people and reasons behind lies, we might then be better able to make decisions on how best to cope with them, let them go, or deal with them either head-on in a confrontational strategy, or through other less direct methods. Lies, aspersions and calumnies are a fact of life, and can easily make or break an individual, and have. Lies have had far-reaching impact on our politics, our religions, our history, and our daily lives.

Purpose:

The proposed study is to provide enough information to use as an instrument or assessment tool to assist in discerning when someone is lying, the possible cause for the lie, and assist in assessing how to best handle the lie, and the person or people behind it. Sometimes it's urgent that lies are detected and corrected, while in other circumstances, it's a waste of energy.

Disclaimer:

Let's just get this out of the way: Romantic Relationships. “If you have to ask, you are too young to know.” You won't find this addressed here! Sorry!



Members:

Ladyinwaiting
TheMythLives

We welcome other researchers. If after reviewing our purpose and goals, you would like to contribute to our endeavor, please U2U me, or TheMythLives, and we will provide appropriate direction for approval, as you will be unable to post on this thread otherwise.
If you have information you would like to share for the research project, or have questions about any of the material presented, again you can contact myself or the TheMythLives, and we will attempt to address all queries publicly.

Goals:
Ladyinwaiting:
1.Give definitions,quotes, discussion, and examples of the many types of lies, and those who tell them.
2.When does lying surface in our developmental process, and are there really differences between the types of lies and liars?
3.Discussion of Polygraph tests.

TheMythLives:
1.How to spot a pathological liar.
2.Discussion of how a lie becomes the truth.
3.Discussion of historical data: How lies have effected history.

Time-line:

This is our first ATS research project, and we anticipate the project to be active for about seven to ten days, with a post every 48 hours, until Conclusions.

Thank you for joining us in this endeavor.

note: My next post will be later today. Thanks.

[color=seagreen]Lies, Aspersions, and Calumny

Vilification, Revilement, Prevarication, Perjury, Fraudulence ,Guile, Hyperbole, Inaccuracy,Invention, Libel, Mendacity, Misrepresentation, Misstatements, White lie, Whopper, Tale, Subterfuge,
Aspersions, Calumny, Defamation, Denigration, Backstabbing, Belittlement, Slander, Deception, Corker, Deceit, Detraction, Dishonesty, Disinformation, Distortion, Omission, Evasion, Fable, Fabrication, Falsehood, Falsification, falsity, Fib, Fiction, Forgery, Underhanded, Smear, Hatchet job, Disparagement, Character Assassination.

Inexactitude, Put words in your mouth, Invent, Deceive, Story, Misrepresent, Mislead, Falsify, Remiss, Dishonesty, Dishonest, Contravene, Transgress, Infringe upon, Violate, Obloquy , Scurrility, Scandal, Imputation, Make-up, Mud-slinging, Slur, Discredit, Impugn ,Misconceived, Subterfuge, Distortion of the facts, Inaccuracy, Myth, Tall Story, Perjuring, Bespatter, Reviling, Ruse, and Lie.

Provided one was blessed with patience, one might go on with these words and synonyms for several pages. The ones above are plucked from a Thesaurus, and Dictionary.

These words alone signify the common occurrence, and overall misconceptions we muddle through on a daily basis. Some we identify instantly, and yet care not enough to take a moment to sort through them. We recognize and accept them as lies, and move on. They don't really effect us very much.

Some make us laugh, and others might make us angry, but still except for a fleeting moment of emotion, and maybe some annoyance, they don't effect us very much.

What about the ones we don't catch? The lies we are told or shown that we don't “get”, or recognize for what they are? Can believing a lie have more effect on our lives than we are aware?

Preparing this article for a conspiracy site, might very well be preaching to the choir. Some readers here don't believe anything they are told, and only half of what they see.

Let us then explore Lies. And the people who tell them.

[color=seagreen]The White Lie

Let's begin with the most common. The little white lie.

What is the origin of the term “White Lie?”

The origin of the “white lie” is likely based on the ancient western idea of polar opposites with “white” meaning good, and “black” being it's evil antithesis. The same medieval thinking that give us “black magic and white magic”.

Source: “World Wide Words”, by Michael Quinion

Source: Wikipedia defines white lies as:

Minor lies which could be considered harmless, or even beneficial in the long term. White lies are also considered to be used for greater good.

We've all been told white lies and we have all told them. They serve a purpose of course, by preventing us from hurting someone's feelings, or getting us out of a little jam. Who wants to admit to a police officer “Yes, Officer, I saw the light was red, but nothing was coming, so I chose to plow right through it”; or “yes, I think it's absurd to have two slices of cheescake when you are already twenty pounds overweight. Can't you exercise any self-restraint whatsoever?” Ladies and Gentleman, consider this one...”I wouldn't have dinner with you if you were the last person on Earth. I much prefer perusing ATS with my dogs at my feet, over your company, any day of the week.” Imagine what life would be like, without the little white lie.

Strangely, The Little White lie is also told by one, to one's own self, on occasion. “I had no choice except to run the traffic light”. “I only took a couple of bites of that second slice of cheesecake, so really, I just ate one slice”. We might convince ourselves of most anything.

Mostly, it seems, we use the “little white lie” to protect our own privacy or that of others, and to spare ourselves or others humiliation. Our relationships with others do have a need for tact and diplomacy; in other words, the white lie has it's function. But bear in mind, that with every “little white lie” you tell, you risk losing credibility. Only if it's with yourself.

Quotes:

“It is hard to believe that a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place”. H.L. Mencken

“A half-truth is a whole lie”. Yiddish proverb.

“Who lies for you, will lie against you”. Bosnian proverb.

“Having an exit strategy can be a social saver – the key is keeping your little white lie plausible”.
April Masini


[color=seagreen]Pseudologia Fantastica

The defining characteristics of Pseudologia Fantastica are that, first, the stories are not entirely improbable and often have some element of truth. They are not a manifestation of delusion or some wider form of psychosis: upon confrontation, they can acknowledge them to be untrue, even if unwillingly. Second, the fabricative tendency is long lasting; it is not provoked by the immediate situation or social pressure as much as it originates with the person's innate urge to act in accordance. Third, a definitely internal, not an external, motive for the behavior can be clinically discerned e.g. long lasting extortion or habitual spousal battery might cause a person to lie repeatedly, without the lying being a pathological symptom. Fourth, the stories told tend towards presenting the person in question in a good light.

Source:Wikipedia

There are fine differences between the characteristics, and bear in mind they are not classified as mental disorders. They are merely descriptive, although sometimes they are symptomatic of a Factitious Disorder.
Pseudologia Fantastica indicates a person who will always present himself in a favorable light. He might even tell lies so often, he starts to believe them. He might believe all his friends are famous, or he has engaged in an extremely brave act, or he is more capable than others. He is a “hero”. He engages in frequent self-glorification, and self-aggrandizement. This is easily observed in his conversation.

Pseudologia Fantastica is a type of lying, in which the person appears to believe in the reality of his or her fantasies and acts on them.

Source: Synopsis of Psychiatry, by Harold Kaplan, MD, and Benjamin Sadock, MD

Further, these people may state that have committed almost “superhuman acts of goodness, altruism, or love, or equally grandiose acts of diabolical evil.” Cults may center around highly charismatic individuals who may suffer from Pseudologia Fantastica, and they have convinced their followers they have received some Divine Revelation.

[color=seagreen]Mythomania or Mythomanics
This is a dark side of lying. These people lie for the thrill of it. They enjoy it, and literally have an “addiction to lying”. They find absolute joy in getting away with a lie. They do it to feed their appetite for lying. This particular type liar generally finds an outlet on board forums.
*Note: Mythomania is not listed in either DSM, or Synopsis of Psychiatry.

Quote: “Liar, liar, pants on fire!”












[edit on 8/21/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

[color=seagreen]The Pathological Liar

An interesting study on pathological lying published in the October 2005 British Journal of Psychiatry suggest that the pathological liar may have a slightly different brain than those people disposed to tell the truth. In the prefrontal cortex of the brain, pathological liars were shown to have 26% more white matter than do people with other psychological disorders who don’t lie. Previously, white matter has been linked to ability to lie. Lower amounts of white matter is typical in the brains of people with autism, who generally cannot lie, suggesting that more white matter disposes one to the increased ability to lie.
Source: WiseGeek www.wisegeek.com...

Specifically, liars had a 25.7 percent increase in prefrontal white matter compared to the antisocial controls and a 22 percent increase compared to the normal controls. Liars had a 14.2 percent decrease in prefrontal gray matter compared to normal controls.

More white matter – the wiring in the brain – may provide liars with the tools necessary to master the complex art of deceit, Raine said.

"Lying takes a lot of effort," he said.

"It's almost mind reading. You have to be able to understand the mindset of the other person. You also have to suppress your emotions or regulate them because you don't want to appear nervous. There's quite a lot to do there. You've got to suppress the truth.”Source: Charles Montaldo, crime.about.com...

From research in child development we know that children tend to become much more credible liars when they are about 10. Before that, they generally are not believable. This 10-year mark coincides with noted development of white matter in the prefrontal cortex. More white matter may simply mean more lying, and too much white matter might translate to pathological lying.

Unfortunately,this study does little to address how these new findings could affect treatment. In fact, it specifically states that this research hasn’t led to any new ideas for treatment. Like the autistic, who suffers from too little white matter in the prefrontal cortex, pathological liars may not be able to have their condition resolved if the basis for their condition is a result of brain structure.

Many people who exhibit pathological lying also clearly exhibit symptoms of other treatable conditions. Conditions like ADHD and OCD are treatable through medication, though different ones. This makes accurately diagnosing underlying conditions important. The last thing one would want to give a person with OCD is a stimulant like Ritalin, which would likely exacerbate their disorder.

Personality disorders that contribute to pathological lying may also respond to a combined treatment of psychiatric medication and cognitive behavioral therapy. The goal with pathological lying must in the end be to treat any evidence of illness or conditions that may influence the lying. This may include medications and the use of behavioral therapy to help the person overcome compulsive lying.

Therapy and medication require compliance from the person being treated, and the pathological liar who has antisocial disorders may not wish to be treated. A person who suffers from pathological lying must on some deep level be committed to the work required in cognitive behavioral therapy, as well as be willing to take medications. The trouble with these methods is that pathological liars can quite easily lie about taking their medications, or about their effectiveness of medications. They can also quite credibly lie about what is happening in their life, which may void the efficacy of therapy

Source: WiseGeek www.wisegeek.com...

Pathological Liars typically lie to get their way, without regard as to how it effects others. It may be associated with some personality disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Borderline PD, or Antisocial PD. The underlying causes of those disorders would need to be addressed to solve the issue of pathological lying, and it is well known that the personality disorders are not easily repaired.
We will view the various liars, then, as having a “disturbance of character”.




[edit on 8/21/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

(Sorry, for some reason I couldn't include this information on my last post).

[color=seagreen]The Pathological Liar, continued



Other information regarding organic differences: Decrease in Gray Matter

Specifically, liars had a 25.7 percent increase in prefrontal white matter compared to the antisocial controls and a 22 percent increase compared to the normal controls. Liars had a 14.2 percent decrease in prefrontal gray matter compared to normal controls.

More white matter – the wiring in the brain – may provide liars with the tools necessary to master the complex art of deceit, Raine said.

"Lying takes a lot of effort," he said.

"It's almost mind reading. You have to be able to understand the mindset of the other person. You also have to suppress your emotions or regulate them because you don't want to appear nervous. There's quite a lot to do there. You've got to suppress the truth.”

Source: Charles Montaldo, crime.about.com...

From research in child development we know that children tend to become much more credible liars when they are about 10. Before that, they generally are not believable. This 10-year mark coincides with noted development of white matter in the prefrontal cortex. More white matter may simply mean more lying, and too much white matter might translate to pathological lying.

Unfortunately,this study does little to address how these new findings could affect treatment. In fact, it specifically states that this research hasn’t led to any new ideas for treatment. Like the autistic, who suffers from too little white matter in the prefrontal cortex, (this is why we sometimes hear that autistics "can't lie") pathological liars may not be able to have their condition resolved if the basis for their condition is a result of brain structure.

Many people who exhibit pathological lying also clearly exhibit symptoms of other treatable conditions. Conditions like ADHD and OCD are treatable through medication, though different ones. This makes accurately diagnosing underlying conditions important. The last thing one would want to give a person with OCD is a stimulant like Ritalin, which would likely exacerbate their disorder.

Personality disorders that contribute to pathological lying may also respond to a combined treatment of psychiatric medication and cognitive behavioral therapy. The goal with pathological lying must in the end be to treat any evidence of illness or conditions that may influence the lying. This may include medications and the use of behavioral therapy to help the person overcome compulsive lying.

Therapy and medication require compliance from the person being treated, and the pathological liar who has antisocial disorders may not wish to be treated. A person who suffers from pathological lying must on some deep level be committed to the work required in cognitive behavioral therapy, as well as be willing to take medications. The trouble with these methods is that pathological liars can quite easily lie about taking their medications, or about their effectiveness of medications. They can also quite credibly lie about what is happening in their life, which may void the efficacy of therapy

Source: WiseGeek www.wisegeek.com...

Pathological Liars typically lie to get their way, without regard as to how it effects others. It may be associated with some personality disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Borderline PD, or Antisocial PD. The underlying causes of those disorders would need to be addressed to solve the issue of pathological lying, and it is well known that the personality disorders are not easily repaired.
We will view the various liars, then, as having a “disturbance of character”.





[edit on 8/21/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Pathological Liars typically lie to get their way, without regard as to how it effects others. It may be associated with some personality disorders such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Borderline PD, or Antisocial PD. The underlying causes of those disorders would need to be addressed to solve the issue of pathological lying, and it is well known that the personality disorders are not easily repaired.
We will view the various liars, then, as having a “disturbance of character”.


ETA Note: I have a 10,000 character limit, but for some reason my posts are showing up in my "little white typing-box," but not on the thread page. So please bear with me. It's requiring much copy and paste, which I'm apparently not very proficient with, so it's choppy. Sorry.



[edit on 8/21/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Alright. First off I want to thank Lady for giving me the opportunity to help her in this research collaboration. My first goal, How to spot a pathological liar, will allow us to exam not only our friends, but ourselves.

All of us have told a lie sometime in our lives, but the majority of people would consider themselves not to be a pathological liar. Lying is a very strange tactic used as deception. Sometimes it is for the good and sometimes it can be bad. But that is all in the persons perception of things. But one thing is for a fact, no one likes to be lied to. It is entirely different for ourselves to tell a lie, but when someone tells us a lie. WHOA! That is the ultimate sin... Of course, when we are lied to our brains are constantly processing motion and when that person who is telling us a lie does something out of there character, such as biting there nails or smiling on the right side of there face that strange gesture is registered and we begin to wonder why is he/she doing that? Most of the time we brush it off as nothing and forget that ever happened. However, that little gesture could have pointed to deception.

Spotting a pathological liar out of the blue is nearly impossible, because we are not able to study there 'normal' behavior. Let us take for instance a friend, which we have known for some time. So how can we tell if someone is lying if there noses are not growing?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e2414a215a1.jpg[/atsimg]
Lie Detector

And thank you to Forbes.com for presenting us with a great list of what to look for when we are possibly being lied to.

Is it possible to see a lie? Sometimes, detecting deception is clear not by listening to what people say, but watching what they do. Look out for "clusters" of body language commonly associated with dishonesty. Here are eight easily-spotted signals to look out for.

Source

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0236ce3388bd.jpg[/atsimg]

Adjusting hair, clothing or make up not only keep a nervous person's hands busy, but they effectively buy time to come up with a lie. These gestures can also be a way to avoid eye contact. If you are asking someone a direct question and she is more interested in fixing her hair than looking you in the eye, take note.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/64fcd0325155.jpg[/atsimg]

Experts say the subconscious might be responsible for this particular tick. The mind is attempting to physically stop a lie before it leaves the lips. Touching the area around the eyes is also an indication that a person is not comfortable with what she's seeing or doing.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8a3b362dfc88.jpg[/atsimg]

Once again, biting or drawing in the lips can be a last-ditch effort to stop a lie from escaping.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c34e70c0bd0.jpg[/atsimg]

Eyelids can be considered "barriers" between a liar and her audience, so a quickened blink rate should be noted. (The average blink rate is about 10 blinks per minute.) Conversely, some people--particularly those going for the wide-eyed innocent look--try to camouflage a lie with prolonged eye contact.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0452851c62e5.jpg[/atsimg]

Looking to the left has been linked with the part of the brain that creates images or memories, rather than recalls events or memories. During conversation, this should be considered a sign of fabrication, as it indicates that the words being spoken may be imagined or created rather than a statement of truth.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e9a662f85c16.jpg[/atsimg]

Experts say one way to judge whether or not a smile is genuine is to look at a person's whole face. A real smile uses many muscle groups, including muscles around the jaw, cheek and eyes ("crow's feet") while a fake, or polite smile, uses the mouth alone and is less likely to expose the teeth. A disingenuous smile can be an indication of discomfort or inauthenticity.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60265191ec75.jpg[/atsimg]

Fidgeting--rearranging objects on a desk or playing with a PDA, for example--can be a sign of nervous energy, but a liar will often move objects in the room (chairs, coffee mug, picture frames) and place them between herself and her audience. Experts say the barrier is subconsciously put in place to create physical distance between the liar and her audience.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9133d7729225.jpg[/atsimg]

Watch for signs that a speaker is uncomfortable or guarded, particularly if their posture is normally strong and confident. Experts say that slouching or looking down may be an instinctual defense against any accusations or opposition. Additionally, an abnormally stiff upper carriage creates tension and shows discomfort.

______________________________________________________


But now comes the question how can we apply this to pathological liars. Liars who are able to avoid all of these goof ups and conceal them to make the lie the truth. This is a part that is very difficult as I stated earlier. Even the best lie detectors can be beat and even the best human lie detectors are able to be fooled. The problem is that we are susceptible everyday to strangers and we have no way to know how they act in a controlled environment and thus have no basis to relay our opinions. I want to present you with a video that is very interesting and as they state in the video this is not 100% correct all the time. It is subject to the person.

Turns out we were wrong. At least half the time. A landmark study by Paul Ekman, Ph.D., a pioneer in the study of lying and author of What the Face Reveals and Why Kids Lie, shows that, despite what we think we know, most people are only 50% successful at "catching" a liar. Ekman, who acts as a consultant on the FOX show Lie To Me, says that while we are much worse at detecting lies than we would like to admit, there are certain physical tics that give clues of trustworthiness or deception that can be seen by the trained eye.

Forbes

This is why spotting a liar is so difficult. Because every motion and every word carries a world of meaning into what we hear. And what we hear and see are all combined into our perception of what we WANT to see and hear. Rather than doing that, it would be best for us to listen and observe, gather what is being presented rather than jumping to a conclusion. Follow what is said to the end and then decide for yourself in an objective and rational state of mind as to whether what they said was true or what they said was full of bologna...

[edit on Aug 21st 2010 by TheMythLives]

[color=seagreen]Is There a Difference in Pathological and Compulsive or Habitual Liars?

There are multiple discussions concerning this in the literature. As we noted earlier, the “Pathological” liar generally lies for self-gain, and his lies are typically self-serving. There is previous mention of the brain being somewhat different in the pathological liar, and although this surely appears to be the case, the research has not clearly indicated how this might contribute to treatment options.

Pathological lying (PL) is a controversial topic. There is, as yet, no consensus in the psychiatric community on its definition, although there is general agreement on its core elements. PL is characterized by a long history (maybe lifelong) of frequent and repeated lying for which no apparent psychological motive or external benefit can be discerned....... In some cases, they might be self-incriminating or damaging, which makes the behavior even more incomprehensible.

Source: www.psychiatrictimes.com...

So then, pathological lying might have a biological base which makes lying quite easy and acceptable to the liar.

PL has been referred to as a "wish psychosis”. Furthermore, PL has also been described as impulsive and unplanned. These observations have raised doubts about the pathological liar's ability to fully control his or her lying behavior. The relative purposelessness of the lies, including the intangible benefits of false accusations or self-incrimination, and the repetitive nature of the lies, despite negative consequences to the liar's reputation and livelihood, further encourage doubts about the liar's ability to control his behavior. On the other hand, it has been observed that vigorously and persistently challenging pathological liars may lead pathological liars to partially acknowledge their lies, an observation that suggests the presence of logical thinking. Such a presentation is consistent with a view of PL as a fantasy lie, a daydream communicated as reality, told solely for the liar's pleasure.

Although the fantasy lies may help the pathological liar escape from stressful life situations, or compensate for developmental traumas, there is evidence that individuals with PL show normal "guilty responses" when lying during a lie-detection test. It is perhaps an attempt at guilt reduction that motivates pathological liars to believe their lies, thereby creating a strange form of double bind.

Source: www.psychiatrictimes.com...


It is also discussed that pathological liars do not lie to make you feel badly.
They are only trying to make themselves feel better.

"They are often lacking in self esteem, and sometimes a harsh confrontation with these people can cause a breakdown."

[edit on 8/23/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

These are "micro-expressions", and were sought out for their "genuine-ness"
Very neat, and nice music.






[edit on 8/23/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

[color=seagreen]The Compulsive or Habitual Liar

A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small. For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right. Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary. For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (unlike sociopaths), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship.

Source: www.truthaboutdeception.com...

In some ways, we might even feel pity for the compulsive, or the habitual liar. Lying was most likely adapted early-on in life as a coping strategy. They had to lie, in order to survive emotionally, or even in other ways.

However, these are the people who will have chicken for dinner, and tell you they had fish.

They lie about everything. You've heard the expression “he will climb a tree to tell a lie, when he could stay on the ground and tell the truth.”. This is the compulsive liar. They will lie about big issues, as well as small things.

In the workplace, he will lie about how often he washes his hands. He wants positive attention; prestige; he exaggerates his self-importance.

He/she can be seductive and flirtatious, needy and dependent. Sometimes we see excessive emotionality.

Cognitive ability is not...stellar. (Unlike the pathological liar, who can be quite intelligent.)

Take a quick survey and see how your lying compares with others--ource: www.psychiatrictimes.com...

Quote: "He that hears much -- hears many lies". Dutch proverb

"If lies are to find credence, they must be patched with truth"....proverb












[edit on 8/24/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Ooops. The above link for the quiz doesn't seem to be working, or is "temporarily unavailable".

Here is another quiz, not concerning your habits, but rather with your ability to discern lying in others.

www.rd.com...

[color=seagreen]At what age does lying typically develop?

From research in child development we know that children tend to become much more credible liars when they are about 10. Before that, they generally are not

believable. This 10-year mark coincides with noted development of white matter in the prefrontal cortex. More white matter may simply mean more lying, and too much

white matter might translate to pathological lying.

Although we think of truthfulness as a young child's paramount virtue, it turns out that lying is the more advanced skill.
A child that is going to lie must recognize the truth, intellectually conceive of an alternate reality, and be able to convincingly sell that new
reality to someone else.

Therefore, lying demands both advanced cognitive development and social skills that honesty simply doesn't require.
It's a developmental milestone.

In order for children to lie, they have to first know and understand that what they are saying is false. Young children do not have the capability to tell the difference

between real and make-believe until age 3 or 4 years; therefore, children aren't quite capable of lying until they reach that age.

Children who have developed the ability to lie may do so for a variety of reasons:

Some very young children do not realize that they're lying. They tell imaginary lies which are a mixture of make-believe and reality. Such lies combine children's rich

creative playful side and their everyday lives. As children continue to develop and grow, these intricate tall-tales will pass away.

Next, young children lie to test adults or peers and see how they will react. This form of lying might be considered a social experiment.

Source: www.mentalhelp.net...
"Lying in Early Childhood", by Angela Oswalt, MSW; Natalie Riess, Ph.d; and Mark Dombeck, Ph.d


*I've noticed too, in my own work, that children will lie over something they wish they had done, or they wish were true.
I was once working with a five year old, who had been abused by a stranger who entered his home.

I took him for an "in-camera" interview (a private interview in a Judge's chambers) with a Judge, who asked him "After he abused you, what did you do?"

The child responded "I beat him up and threw him out the window".






[edit on 8/24/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

[color=seagreen]Reasons People Lie

We mostly know the reasons people lie.

Here is a list of a few reasons (anyway). As you read these, try to keep in mind how very pathetic, afterall, the reasons are.

♣A form of organic impairment. Too much white matter.
♣To make themselves look big.
♣To keep out of trouble.
♣Attention seeking.
♣To deliberately mislead and manipulate.
♣Jealousy
♣Has issues with self-esteem.
♣To avoid punishment.
♣Lies in the workplace to get ahead.
♣Social Reasons, to be accepted, or gain prestige.
♣Sometimes the lies they tell you, are the lies they have told themselves.
♣Lying is a habit, it feels good to lie.
♣They live in a fantasy world, and the fantasy has become real to them.
♣People don't want to admit they don't know the truth, so they "fabricate". (Gossiping)
♣Because if they tell the truth, they will be punished.
♣They deliberately try to injure another person's reputation or credibility. These are malicious lies.
♣To make themselves feel better.
♣Their intention is to do harm.
♣They lie for the thrill of it. Getting away with a lie, makes them happy.
♣They have convinced themselves that the lie is the truth.
♣Arrogant and narcissistic. Think they can get away with anything. They have no respect for the truth.
♣People can be aggressive, and hateful. (I made this one up).
♣Sick puppies who have no consideration as to what lies do to anyone else, as long as it makes them feel good personally, or somehow improves their circumstances. (I made this one up too.)

And....
♣To prevent self and others from feeling humiliated. This is the White Lie.

Quote:

A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.
The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.

Signature of Member "misteree".

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I would just like to say that you are doing a great job of tackling this subject. It's something that all of us have done at some point in our lives, for whatever reason.

Reading some of the reasons that you posted above makes me rethink some of my indignation I feel after reading some of the threads that really wind me up. I don't like knowing that some people intentionally set out to mislead others, but the reasons may not always be purposefully malicious--how I usually take it as.

After reading this thread last night, I immediately after saw this on my homepage in the literary quote of the day section, and thought it synchronous:

"Truth, like gold, is to be obtained not by its growth, but by washing away from it all that is not gold." --Leo Tolstoy

Good work ladyinwaiting and TheMythLives.

Very interesting.

BTW: It's cool that the research forum has gotten a breath of new life put back into it. I had, in the past, asked a few times if anyone wanted help with their research, but received no replies, and no new posts had been made in the forum for over a month -- besides my offers. So thumbs up again.


[edit on 24/8/2010 by Chamberf=6]

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Chambert=6, thank you so much for your kind and generous comments.

If you, or any other researcher would like to add to the project, please feel free.

In fact.....I would love to see someone pick up the "polygraph" piece of this, or any other area that is related to the subject.

Any takers? Cham? Anybody?

How lies become true. The sad truth of history....


Many say that history is written by the victors. This statement is most obviously true and a testament as to how human perception can be manipulated so easily. The best example of this can be found in the era of World War II.

Joseph Goebbels, launched a massive campaign to convince the German people that the Jews were their enemies. Having taken over the press, they spread lies blaming Jews for all of Germany's problems, including the loss of World War I. One outrageous lie dating back to the Middle Ages claimed that Jews engaged in the ritual killings of Christian children and used their blood in the unleavened bread eaten at Passover

Source

Unforgettably for many of us, Hitler and his army of maniacs understood how to use the people for there agenda.

Using Jews as the scapegoat, Hitler and his cronies orchestrated what they called "the big lie." This theory states that no matter how big the lie is (or more precisely, because it's so big), people will believe it if you repeat it enough. Everyone tells small lies, Hitler reasoned, but few have the guts to tell colossal lies. Because a big lie is so unlikely, people will come to accept it.

Lies in America

Even the Japanese used tactics like this and they have a museum exhibit dedicated to American "Aggression". This is the perfect example of how one country teaches there children and how another one teaches theirs. After the first two Atomic Warheads were dropped; Japan still did not surrender. It was only until we threatened them with dropping another one that they finally got the picture. The funny thing was, we really did not have anymore atomic bombs available. This is how one lie can transition from words to reality.

In 1938, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain met with the German chancellor in a last-ditch diplomatic effort to quell impending war. Adolf Hitler assured Chamberlain that war would be avoided if Czechoslovakia would negotiate a redrawing of its borders. Chamberlain was satisfied and told Parliament that Hitler "means what he says." Needless to say, Hitler didn't. Why it's significant: This is, unequivocally, one of mankind's most devastating deceptions. It enabled the start of World War II and led to the death of millions. Hitler is an example of a natural performer, Paul Ekman writes in his book "Telling Lies." He was able to engage in deceit without the yoke of remorse.

Source

___________________________________________________________


Even science has fallen victim to lies such as Piltdown man:

When archaeologist Charles Dawson unearthed what he thought was a missing link in 1910, what he really found was one of the biggest hoaxes in history.

The discovery was the Piltdown man, pieces of a skull and jaw with molars located in the Piltdown quarry in Sussex, England. Dawson brought his discovery to prominent paleontologist Arthur Smith Woodward, who touted its authenticity to his dying day.

Although the discovery gained world renown, the lie behind Piltdown man slowly and steadily unraveled. In the ensuing decades, other major discoveries suggested Piltdown man didn’t fit in the story of human evolution. By the 1950s, tests revealed that the skull was only 600 years old and the jaw came from an orangutan. Some knowledgeable person apparently manipulated these pieces, including filing down and staining the teeth.

The scientific world had been duped. So who was behind the fraud? Many suspects have surfaced, including Dawson himself. Today, most signs point to Martin A. C. Hinton, a museum volunteer at the time of the discovery. A trunk was found bearing his initials contained bones that were stained in exactly the same way to the Piltdown fossils. It is suggested that he was out to embarrass his boss, Arthur Smith Woodward, who refused to give him a weekly salary.

Source

And here are some more:

Sometimes big lies are justified. During a January 1980 press conference, Jimmy Carter said he wouldn't consider taking military action to recapture the hostages at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. At that very moment, the military was preparing for just such action. In that case, and despite the outcome, deceit was necessary to preserve the integrity of the mission. In wartime, truth is so precious that she must often be attended by a bodyguard of lies, as Winston Churchill reportedly said.

Source

How do lies become truth in history?

Through the use of media and global devices that can reach the masses. These tools enable the lie to grow from local to global. These tools often blind ones perception of how the events really took place and replace them with suggestions of 'how' it took place. But how do lies really pass? Because of every day people like you and I who fall victim for the emotion of TV and the emotion of the words used. It becomes a false truth that they planted the seed with and we allowed it to grow into the lie that will become.


In the words of V:

And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.

Source


The sad thing is that in 50 years, truths of today will be known as lies of the future....

[edit on Aug 26th 2010 by TheMythLives]

[color=seagreen]Aspersions and Calumny

Quotes:

"A nickname a man may chance to wear out; but a system of calumny, pursued by a faction, may descend even to posterity."
~Isaac D`Israli

"There are calumnies against which even innocents lose courage".
~Horace (In some cases this credited to Napoleon)

"No might nor greatness in mortality can censure back-wounding calumny..........What King so strong can tie the gall up in the
slanderous tongue?"
~William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

"Half the truth is often a great lie".
~Benjamin Franklin

"The cruelest lies are often told in silence".
~Robert Louis Stevenson

"Robbing men of their reputation among peers is too subtle to be reached by the army of the law."
~Jewish saying

"There is something mean in human nature that prefers to think evil that gives a willing ear and a ready welcome to calumny,
a sort of jealousy of goodness and grandness, and things of good report."
~Richard Le Gallienne

"A man calumniated is doubled injured -- first by him who utters the calumny, and then by those who believe it."
~Herodotus

"Cutting honest throats by whispers."
~ Sir Walter Scott

"I do not believe that it is necessary to belabor the point that each person has a right to his or her good name. A good name is something that we earn by reason or our good deeds. It concerns the public estimation of a person's intellectual and moral excellence. In a very real sense, a person's good name is his or her property — it belongs to the person concerned as a strict right. Hence the violation of a person's good name is a sin against the virtue of justice. "
Source:
~Calumny and detraction
FR. KENNETH BAKER, S.J.


[color=seagreen]Definition
American Heritage Dictionary (2 definitions)–noun
1.A false statement maliciously made to injure another's reputation.
2.The utterance of maliciously false statements; slander.

Calumny in the Blogosphere
By Rev. Michael P. Orsi on 10.19.07 @ 12:07AM

An especially compelling element of blogging is the ability to project one's ideas, observations and opinions with near-complete anonymity. It is common blogger practice to adopt an online persona -- usually some cute name or title with relevance to the main focus of the blog. Likewise, readers who comment on blog postings or participate in discussions can set their views before the world without revealing themselves. Service providers that host blogs routinely permit such anonymity, and the law has upheld the practice (in only a handful of court cases have providers been forced to unmask their blogging clients).

But the power to reach a wide audience while remaining in the shadows has proven a source of great temptation. All too many online commentators have been dazzled by this technology that magnifies personal identity and stokes the ego while providing a shield from the consequences of their words. Whole new avenues of calumny have been the result.

Calumny does not exist apart from the other realities of life. It is nurtured by social conditions and the particular circumstances in which individuals find themselves, circumstances that can provide the rationalizations and self-deception that blind us to the seriousness of our words and actions.

For instance, we live in a society that puts a high premium on winning. It's easy to convince ourselves that anything goes, as long as we achieve the results we want and don't get caught doing what we know in our hearts we shouldn't do.

Others recognize the calumny, but see it as a compromise that must be made for the sake of a noble cause. They hope that by destroying an opponent's reputation they will de-legitimize the position which that opponent represents. This is the "greater good" rationalization, the thinking of terrorists willing to kill innocent people (even sometimes themselves) in pursuit of lofty goals. In such manner, "cyber-terrorists" are often willing to tolerate a certain amount of "collateral damage" for the sake of what they perceive as good.

They will employ pernicious lies concerning sexual matters that can wreck marriages, allegations of legal impropriety that can destroy careers, statements demeaning the moral probity of civic leaders that can weaken society as a whole.

Source: The American Spectatorspectator.org...

[color=seagreen] Legality and Legal Actions Involving Calumny

In order to be considered true calumny, several conditions must be met. Malice is important, as is knowledge of the fact that the statement is false. If someone repeats a false statement from someone else, or genuinely believes a statement to be true, this is not calumny. The statement must be made with injurious intent, and it must be demonstrated that the intent is not opinion or comment. Very fine lines can be drawn here and are repeatedly pushed in trial proceedings involving charges of calumny.

Under the law, such actions may be treated as a civil wrong or tort, but they can also be treated as a criminal offense under some laws and in some regions. In cases where it is a civil wrong, the person being defamed has the right to take the person making false statements to court to recover damages.

In addition to paying damages, the person engaging in vilification may also be ordered to make other reparations, such as retracting the statement. Criminal wrongs can result in jail time.

Sometimes, the line between true calumny and protected, albeit impolite, speech is very thin. In several regions of the world, there are concerns that defamation laws are sometimes used for a chilling effect, with the goal of silencing people, rather than providing people with a legitimate way to right a wrong.

Powerful companies and individuals may attempt to abuse defamation laws in order to quiet dissent, and courts must tread carefully when weighing the evidence to ensure that they do not inadvertently apply the law incorrectly.

Source: Wisegeek www.wisegeek.com...

A person's reputation belongs to him as surely as his eye color and his fingertips belong to him. The act of deliberately try to steal it away, is not only cruel, but worse than having a prized heirloom or possession stolen.

To resolve spiteful damage to one's reputation, it is generally thought that the person who has calumniated the individual, cleanses the person's reputation by retracting the slanderous statements. Unfortunately, many believe "where there is smoke there is fire", so this is not always true.
More often than not, the damage is permanent.

The reason for calumny, and the attempt to deliberately and maliciously attempt to destroy a person's reputation usually is born from one or two reasons:

Jealousy and/or Greed. Think about it.









[edit on 8/29/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


[color=seagreen]Reasons People Lie

Last night I was listening to ATS Live, and I heard one of the Moderators remark the following:

"People Hate to be wrong".

Source: Semperfortis, ATS Live, 8-28-2010

So simple, but explains so much.

[color=seagreen]Conclusions

We have read about the types of liars, and some of the motivations behind them.

Review:

The Pathological Liar: Doesn't really lie to make others feel badly. He lies to make himself feel better. There might be a complication in White/Grey Matter in the brain, which causes lying to come very easily for him.

The Compulsive/Habitual Liar: Lies because it is their Modus Operandi. It "feels" right to lie, while being honest makes them very uncomfortable.
They probably developed lying during childhood as a coping strategy, or to survive.

Pseudologia Fantastica: The liar lives in a fantasy world. They may actually believe they are extraordinary people having extraordinary experiences.

Mythomanics: Lie for the thrill of it. Getting away with a lie brings them self satisfaction and happiness.

_____________________________________________________

In our civilization, when we catch a person in a lie, we usually do one of three things:
1. Confront them.
2. Provide them with an "out".
3. Let it go.
_____________________________________________________

People who lie habitually are seen as having a "Disturbance of Character".

They do generally have identifiable manipulative characteristics:

~A direct question put to them, does not yield a direct answer.
~They try to make you feel like the "bad guy" when you confront them.
~They try to keep their aggressiveness hidden.
~They are covertly aggressive.
~They want to get the better of you, but don't want to be seen as doing it.
~Although they may apologize to you, they are secretly delighted at having "gotten you".

_______________________________________________________

People and Circumstances can be manipulated, and lies can be repeated over and over, until people believe them. They can take a part in a country, or a person's history.

_______________________________________________________


This was not addressed in the body of this paper, but I thought I would include it, as it bears thinking about:

[color=seagreen]Are there lies we should believe, whether they are true or not?
~Love never dies.
~Good always triumphs over evil.
~People are basically good.
~Truth means everything.

_____________________________________________________________

[color=seagreen]Ethics in Truth-telling.

We really should not have this inquiry without considering ethics. If you see your best friend's husband out with another woman, is telling her really the best thing to do? When she divorces him based upon your disclosure, and her children are without a father, and she moves from her home, and loses her planned future, her security, her financial security, has lost her dreams and her life, and is thrown into deep resentment, and emotional pain and depression, have you done what's best?

Consider, too, people don't like this kind of thing, and you will inevitably lose her friendship. I've heard many people say, they wish they had never been given this type painful information, and resented the person who told them.
Maybe it was just a phase. A meaningless encounter. Is it really your business? Maybe your friend already knew, but was keeping it quiet. By telling her, it is no longer "quiet". She might now feel compelled to act on something she does not really want to act upon.

Think on the effects of these "truths", before telling them. Ethics provides a method for deliberating on when and how much of the truth should be revealed in a given situation.

_____________________________________________________________

Can we really tell when people are lying?
The most common thought is, if you think someone is lying, they probably are.
The information concerning "how to recognize a liar", may be worthwhile. May not be.
It is generally accepted that men have a greater talent for identifying when someone is lying about facts, while women are better in discerning when someone is lying in an emotional response.
There is so much contradiction in the literature, it is difficult to sort through at times.

The best tip seems to be: Develop a baseline for a person. When you know they are telling the truth, observe the way they speak, and move.
Do the same when you know they are lying. In this way, you will have a baseline to compare future events, when you are uncertain of the veracity of their statements. This is easy when you are around a person often. Not so easy when it is a stranger. Responses and reactions vary within individual personalities.

I did a search for how to spot a liar in the written word, such as on board forums. This search revealed little to nothing.
ATS members, bye the bye, tend to have well developed skills in this respect!

Any comments or additional information by other researchers are welcome at this time.
Many thanks to Chamberf=6, Sauron, Myth, and the other two people who read this thread!

_____________________________________________________________

In closing, I ask that you give some thought to the following question:

Is There A Universal Right To Know The Truth?













[edit on 9/1/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Lies are essentially tools used by us to gain what we want. And that want usually clouds our judgment and at times clouds our true character. Sadly the most necessary time a person feels compelled to lie is when a person wants to be accepted by another, usually a person that they want to be closer with... But many do not realize that they are lying to themselves, this is the worst lie of all.

“The worst lies are the lies we tell ourselves. We live in denial of what we do, even what we think. We do this because we're afraid. We fear we will not find love, and when we find it we fear we'll lose it. We fear that if we do not have love we will be unhappy.”

~Richard Bach

Lies are much more than what any of us want them to be. Some use them to be more prideful, cooler, or perhaps even smarter. But the point is we all lie, but do we know when we lie? Or has it become such a habit that we have, in the worst of ideas, become an organism built upon lies and have lost ourselves in the 'truth' of our lives? Scary thoughts indeed...

While this is a rather short closing, I hope that the true meaning was not lost and that this posts takes nothing away from the quality of this thread

Ladyinwaiting, thank you for sending and considering me for helping you on this great research project. I truly appreciate it and your friendship. And I hope you, the reader, also enjoyed this effort and use this knowledge for good and not for evil...

Peace Out and Happy Reading...

~TheMythLives