NYC Mosque: An American Teenager's viewpoint

Will all the "anger" out there, and *ahem* idiotic hypocrisy, I thought it might be smart if I....educated everyone a bit about the proposed location of the Mosque in NYC. Without further adieu, off we go on our tour:

First

I think I should give you an idea of.....some of the...other religious institutions near the WTC.

NOTE: You should RIGHT CLICK>VIEW IMAGE to see the full picture as ATS doesn't seem to want to format it right.








NOTE: Not EVERY placemarker in the pictures is indeed a church, but a majority of the placemarkers are.


I won't make any assumptions here about a majority of ATS' religious views, but based on statistics one could argue that a large majority that follow organized religion are likely Christian/Catholic. That being said, I'd like to take this opportunity to....enlighten some of ATS' Christian membership on the history of their religion.
Persecution of Christians

It is well known that the Christian religion has faced MANY plights since it's inception. They were persecuted for DECADES by the Roman Empire, as well as the Jews, early on. I'm sure most of the readers have heard of Nero, one of the most viscous persecutes of Christianity in history's past.

Enough about the Christian religion however, as I don't wish to pick on one, since ANY religious person can become....intolerant of others, especially when they are led to believe that an ENTIRE RELIGION poses a threat to their way of life. *cough cough* Divide and Conquer *cough cough*

As of mid 2010, we accept the Pew Forum's estimate 1.57 billion as the most reliable estimate. With that number, they represent about 22% of the world's population. They are the second largest religion in the world. Only Christianity is larger, with 33% of the world's inhabitants -- a little over 2 billion. Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world population which increases about 2.3% annually. It is thus attracting a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.

SOURCE

HOW in the name of (insert your Creator's name here) can you marginalize 1.57 BILLION people and just "assume" that they are all terrorists? Surely you wouldn't want people in the Middle East to think "Oh...you are Christian? YOU ARE A TERRORIST!"

again....*cough cough* DIVIDE AND CONQUER *cough cough*

I have one final question to ask of those readers who have stuck it out this long:

If the PTB came after your family, home, guns RIGHT THIS MOMENT, and your Muslim neighbor offered you shelter, and fought along your side.... You would accept it would you not?

Conclusion: RELIGION is a belief system, nothing more. There is ZERO reason why we should argue/fight over something that we cannot ,as of yet, PROVE true of false. As an example it would be like if I said "There is a giant cavern in the Core of the Earth" and you said "No it is a giant ocean in the Core of the Earth" , that we decided to kill/marginalize one another because of those two beliefs..... CAN WE JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE!


[edit on 8/20/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 8/20/10 by ElijahWan]

Good post. I don't know why people can't get this through their heads...

The critics seem to lose ALL comprehension of the freedom to exercise religion in this country. As if it's only certain religions that have that freedom.

They say things like, "They should be more sensitive" or "they should make a compromise". BS! Why? What they're doing is absolutely legal and Constitutionally protected and it's not hurting ANYONE! All because of some feigned outrage fed by their vivid and paranoid imaginations.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well in my opinion B.H. that was the goal of 9/11. Whoever caused it (be it some "ABC" agency, blackops group, or EVEN extremist muslims) their goal was to marginalize an entire religion and influence people's viewpoints on a group of over 1.57 Billion people. That's just LUNACY! It's quite sad that we live in a world of people that can't take the time to "educate" themselves enough to see what the MSM (Mainly Faux ((Fox)) News) is trying to do. It's one of the main reasons I use the internet to research anything I hear on the TV. Nowadays the MSM is used more as a "thought control system" rather than information/truth provider. Via the use of fear/hype they do their best to influence your emotions and cause you to spend your time/energy being "outraged" about things that are pointless to be outraged about.

I think that the controversy here is not based around the fact that all Islamists are terrorists, but rather the fact that a mosque in the general vicinity of an area where hundreds of Americans lost their lives to members of the same religion will cause unneeded controversy and inflame the locals.

reply to post by Captain Reynolds


Which is completely understandable Captain Reynolds, but they have just as much a right to build a Mosque/Community center there as the Churches that are already present there. Does it not seem a bit....intolerant...if we say "Oh sure...Christian/Catholic/Jewish places of worship are welcome within a couple blocks of the WTC but a Islamic Mosque is not? I find that to be...highly hypocritical when living in a country that provides freedom of religion/assembly.

It's like this buddy, If a black man went into a McDonalds and shot everyone inside and ran out, would McDonalds then ban ALL BLACK PEOPLE from entering their "area". Surely not, as the actions of a SINGLE/FEW person/people shouldn't decide our "views" of an entire people.

Another example would be Timothy Mcveigh. He was raised a Roman Catholic but later became more of an agnostic. Regardless of his religious views, the man still caused widespread pain and suffering the day he blew up his bomb in OKC. So because of his actions, should we then say that Catholics/Agnostics cannot be trusted because of this one man's actions?

Criticize the person, NOT their belief system.



[edit on 8/20/10 by ElijahWan]

Aww come on ATS...no one else wants to express their viewpoint on this issue? Though then again, there are indeed like 4000x posts about this same issue lol. Oh well....Let me know what you all think!

Its the Powers that be which control what you see.... so indeed these are religious beliefs and nothing else. When I hear stories like this mosque frequenting this forum and the news, I can only guess its to keep the hate growing and to further separate us. Since the frequency of hostility towards muslims seems to have increased as of late, I tend to think there is something brewing just right around the corner.

Originally posted by Captain Reynolds
I think that the controversy here is not based around the fact that all Islamists are terrorists, but rather the fact that a mosque in the general vicinity of an area where hundreds of Americans lost their lives to members of the same religion will cause unneeded controversy and inflame the locals.

Let me correct your statement for you.

I think that the controversy here is not based around the fact that all Islamists are terrorists, but rather the fact that a mosque in the general vicinity of an area where thousands of Americans lost their lives to members of the same religion will cause unneeded controversy and inflame the locals.

As for them building a Mosque near WTC it is ok if we can build
a casino and strip club in MECCA.

If they are ok with that, then its good to go !

Ppl are asking for tolerance from ppl that have no concept of
tolerance.

Read up on Sharia law.

Read up on Dhimmitude.

Take it from someone who lived under that insanity for 30 years.



I think a lot of ppl have a Eutopian view of the world, but til you
go over there and see what it is like you have no clue.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]

The only controversy here is a created controversy, and as the OP said, its basic premise is flawed. This is nothing but a huge strawman that many special interest groups e have added straw to for their own agendas. People better start thinking long and hard about what's really at stake here is all I can say at this point...as far as religious freedom, as far as unions, as far as whether blocking this community center might not be the actual victory.

[edit on 8/20/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Agreed Lucidity, what a created controversy it is! The way I look at it, it's a non issue.

When one buys land in America they OWN that land and all rights to construct on it. So long as nothing illegal is going on, on that land.....Last I checked it wasn't illegal to practice the Muslim Faith in America so again....non issue....

I liken this controversy to a lifelong Mcdonalds eater getting pissed when they put a Burger King next door to their local Mcdonalds....In America, they are free to think and say whatever they want.....But that DOES NOT mean they have a right to prevent the Burger King (or in this case the Mosque) from being built....

reply to post by Ex_MislTech

As for them building a Mosque near WTC it is ok if we can build a casino and strip club in MECCA. If they are ok with that, then its good to go ! Ppl are asking for tolerance from ppl that have no concept of tolerance. Read up on Sharia law. Read up on Dhimmitude.

Well let them keep that crap over there, this is AMERICA. We have rights and freedoms here.

All who wish for the Mosque not to be built there, WELCOME TO AMERICA.

We have rights that some have bled and died for. They will not be taken away by ANYONE.

I refuse to identify a religious house with Terrorism.
Islam did not bring down those towers, it was some f'ed up peckerheads with delusions of grandeur.

You give them power when you become bigoted, it was their intention.

I say very honestly that I never intend to become adjusted to — segregation and discrimination. I never intend to become adjusted to religious bigotry.

MLK Jr.

Men often hate each other because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don't know each other; they don't know each other because they can not communicate; they can not communicate because they are separated.

Ditto.

Many folks are now saying that to build a mosque there is insensitive. That's bull, it's a propaganda coup!

In every corner of the third world where people can't read or write the Muslim leaders will be able to say, "A mosque now stands where the world trade centers used to be."

It's a small white lie, but an extremely powerful one. The mileage they will get out of that is enormous.

The Muslim community is using a very real tragedy (Regardless of who caused it) to further their own religious goals.

If a mosque is built there, many, many more people will die in the name of religion. That's why they want it there, to further their own goals.

It's not insensitive, it's just evil people using God to push their own agenda's.

reply to post by mrwupy



you said that quite well.

not all the 1.5 bil can read or write or listen to fox, lol.


star for that.

Originally posted by mrwupy


The Muslim community is using a very real tragedy (Regardless of who caused it) to further their own religious goals.

If a mosque is built there, many, many more people will die in the name of religion. That's why they want it there, to further their own goals.

It's not insensitive, it's just evil people using God to push their own agenda's.

Why would you say this, exactly?

Do you believe that all Muslims are evil people?

I think you just unintentionally proved the OP's point...

Originally posted by Captain Reynolds
I think that the controversy here is not based around the fact that all Islamists are terrorists, but rather the fact that a mosque in the general vicinity of an area where hundreds of Americans lost their lives to members of the same religion will cause unneeded controversy and inflame the locals.

Yes, kind of correct.

To start, like the poster said above, it is perfectly legal and should not be stopped by legislation or popular opinion.

“Other than "proximity" to the ground zero location (I think landing gear came through the roof of this building) it is the "name" that has been chosen which can be "debated"

It is the whole "golden age" Cordoba bull. This subject is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

The Golden Age of Tolerance in Cordoba is that Jews and Christians were severely restricted. In Islamic Spain, Jews and Christians were tolerated by being forced to live in a state of dhimmitude. A dhimmi is a non-Muslim living in an Islamic state who is not a slave, but does not have the same rights as a Muslim living in the same state. This Golden Age of coexistence is interpreted as submitting to Islamic rule. It is what it is.”

The problem was the name: Cordoba House www.cordobainitiative.org...

I personally do not like the symbolism of the name chosen. I can only "assume" due to the symbolism associated with "Islamic Rule" with the name and the proximity that one can be quite offended and consider it a statement or monument of victory.”

Given the name, it is very difficult not to conclude some form of statement is being made and that statement is not completely benign. It is possible that this name was chosen so that there would be controversy. I don't know

reply to post by ElijahWan

Good post and from your perspective it only adds to what you say.

There are some that are stuck in their ways and thoughts and will never change. I simply gave up on replying to what became one of the larger Muslim hatred threads here because it gets tiring of attempting to help people see something that they will never see. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but narrow mindedness can be extremely frustrating for me.

I'm sure your thread will shortly be met with the same that invades all the other threads, which is a given right of free speech. Much in the same as a freedom of religion in America but that seems to be different for some. At least your stance as a teenager gives me some hope that the world, and America, has some chance of actually succeeding instead of falling and failing into self destruction based on bigotry, hatred and hypocrisy, to name a few. Your bits of information will be met with resistance for those that choose misinformation to fit their perceived perception but at least some try to spread the truth.

Originally posted by drwizardphd


Why would you say this, exactly?

Do you believe that all Muslims are evil people?

I think you just unintentionally proved the OP's point...

He did

2ndline

reply to post by Three_moons


There is hope for America yet my friend. I DREAM of the day when all the OLD WHITE MEN (btw...I'm just a young white man *chuckle*) are in their graves and MY generation is allowed to express their views and live more tolerant life styles. I'll tell you, and again it might be different since I come from Ohio (not known for being very racist or intolerant), but most people my age couldn't give a CARE IN THE WORLD what other people do with their lives, what religion they practice, what gender they wanna marry, ect. That's TRUE freedom...and I believe the way that our founding founders MEANT for America to be. I know many a man that will praise FREEDOM so long as the "race group/religion" that he dislikes is not allowed to have the same freedoms. THAT is not freedom.

One day at a time my friend. So long as we can continue to strive, educate our children about the mistakes we've made throughout history and now, there is no reason we won't progress as a country, and eventually (hopefully) as a unified race.

I would also like to add the fact that people of all races and religions died in the world trade center buildings that day - including Muslims.

I would like to agree with you that "our generation" (although I am in my mid 20's not teens) For the most part do have more tolerance for peoples beliefs and the way they live their lives. Don't think for a second though that time is the answer. There will always be hate and discrimination.

I once shared your thought that after all the old racist bastards have died the world will be a different place. This may be - but not all of them are the same, and the ones that are not also have values and morals that are very important that will be forgotten as well. So let me ask you this with the last of the "old generation" gone to the (insert place you go when you die) will we have traded evils?