Fact or Faked is Faking Evidence and Falsely Debunking: Cattle Mutilation

reply to post by kadyr80

Many farmers lost a lot of cattle and no one here had EVER seen anything like it. UFOs were also sighted nightly. We now have an annual UFO festival to commemorate it, coincidentally next weekend

Nightly? Thank goodness. With such predictable frequency of occurance we should have miles of video by now, especially given the duration that these "events" have been going on. Once again, statments such as the above display the very ignorance that makes this subject laughable.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts



Actually there was quite a bit of photographic evidence and possibly videos too. It was all over local news and made a bit of national coverage too. The reports were almost nightly during this time, so don't go picking me apart just because it makes you feel smart.

Can you point out some of this outstanding video and photographic footage to me? I've been looking to put this whole UFO thing to rest for a while now, and I keep waiting for things like this to come up....you know, things like this that are "so predictable" that UFO's are viewed "nightly", things like claimed UFO hotspots where it seems UFO's dance in front of you on command....well, until there is a camera present at least...or when there is there is nothing more than a blurry youtube video....

Please, help me out here.....

Becasue we all know there is no possible mundane reason that people who believe in cattle mutilations will accept. Kinda like the crop circle crowd, those ignorant types will do anything and everything in order to leap to the LEAST POSSIBLE CONCLUSION.

And thus, I give you the laughable joke the it "Ufology"

UFO hotspots indeed, lol. Don't you think some reaseracher would have made his fortune by now cracking a case wide open that is "so predictable"? I mean, those fools who sell books on this subject, think how many more they could sell if they only knew what you know....shame.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Well I'm glad you are so interested in debunking. I don't have a belief as to what is causing this, ie aliens or some secret organization or the government. Sadly any images I show you will be inconclusive as all were lights in the sky moving silently, and the occasional helicopters. so, my friend, you are missing the point. This thread is not about ufos, nor is it about my personal beliefs on the mutilation phenomenon. Its about a tv show faking evidence and falsly debunking something apparently so that folk like you can gloat.

So you ask me for proof of ufos?
I ask you for proof that nature can selectively pinpoint cattle in different areas of the world, remove only certain organs, cauderize wounds, and leave no traces of anything behind. Oh and cause mysterious lights and black helicopters.

How is that natural or easily debunked?

You should deny ignorance my friend.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


Laughable?

The only laughable thing I can see about this, is that people think insurance matters. No cattle rancher wants his cattle messed with period.
No cattle rancher likes dealing with insurance companies and all thier redtape either.

Most of the people who raise cattle do it because they want to be left alone. I know this from growing up in a cow town. A lot of my friends
lived on dairies or ranched cattle period.

No you can't laugh away the fact that there is something paranormal going on here. You are talking about the most down to earth people anywhere.
For so many of these highly credible people to be saying the same thing?
I give their word the highest consideration.

If it makes you feel any better at night go ahead and laugh.
Ignore the facts!

reply to post by kadyr80


This is an interesting thread. There is, on History/Discovery Science, quite a lengthy documentary on the subject based on a forensics point of view. They use a couple of people who really know their stuff about the processes at work and do, to some extent, help explain some mutilations.

They say they feel they have solved the phenomena, yet the actual farmers are left high dry as to be able explain many of the mutilations. As one farmer says. yes i can see how predation can cause very similar wounds but we are talking 4 days to 2 weeks. I've found cattle of mine i saw alive the previous evening, in a state they claim takes 4+ days, only hours later.

The scientists simply don;t address this problem of time scale, at all.

Star n flag first of all! I was disappointed with this one too. Cattle mutilations happen in a bunch of places,and these shoddy debunkers gave up too easily if you ask me. Let them try to debunk this one!
www.crowdedskies.com...

I mentioned the NIDS study of cattle mutilations in my earlier post. The NIDS site has been empty for a couple years and the papers are just scattered around the web. Here's the original report...Unexplained Cattle Deaths And The Emergence Of A Major TSE Epidemic in North America. Some of the images are graphic so be warned.

Here's an extract that raises questions...

One of the most quoted hypotheses involves a government operation to monitor radiation or biological warfare testing. But the question “why leave the body?” has never been adequately answered by these hypotheses. The government can just as easily test their own herds, the counter-argument goes, or obtain carcasses from a slaughterhouse if they wish to covertly monitor radiation. Thus, for this and many other reasons, the evidence points away from the government as perpetrators of animal mutilations.

I've got a few questions about the NIDS reports, but they are always intriguing.

Originally posted by Turiddu
Why would the government need to secretly mutilate cattle for supposed "radiation experiments"?

It would be much easier and safer to simply send undercover agents around the West, buying up cattle at auctions and doing the work in a secure lab. That would make much more sense than using black helicopters or whatever to drop secret field teams into farms in the middle of the night.

IMO these so called "mutilations" have much more to do with insurance policies and bored small town newspaper reporters than they do with secret government agencies or aliens.

I will tell you why:

Some intel black types might have an agenda that is served by making the public think that ' aliens ' are doing the cattle mutilations. I have heard this theory before and it is plausible, but not proven so far. It seems that some cattle attacks are by helicopter based humans, while others seem to involved UFO's.

There could be deep black programs that study random cattle for various reasons that would prevent them from establishing a formal public squad that would go around posing as cattle buyers, then having to ship the cows somewhere..why bother when a silent heli and a few quiet types get the job done AND put a certain mindset out in the populace..it goes deep.

reply to post by kadyr80


I really could care less about the show, since I only watch it to see Jael

but as for Cattle Mutilations I find the whole idea silly. Most of what we see in a typical cattle mutilation is exactly the kind of decomposition usually seen in dead animals. Microorganisms, maggots, natural decay and predation are all it takes to get those results and nothing suggests otherwise.

The rash of UFO sightings comes from paranoid people who find one or two dead cattle in the field and start looking for something mysterious to go on.

Honestly I think it's great you are looking to the sky more often, and investigating UFOs is great and all but I really don't think that aliens or the government come half-way across the Galaxy (or country) to kill a few cows and strip them of organs, or tissue...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

but as for Cattle Mutilations I find the whole idea silly. Most of what we see in a typical cattle mutilation is exactly the kind of decomposition usually seen in dead animals. Microorganisms, maggots, natural decay and predation are all it takes to get those results and nothing suggests otherwise.

You know what? I posted almost exactly the same replies on ATS until recently. It is silly. It's also absurd for any number of reasons.

If you read a little more about the various investigations by FBI, police and other investigations, it doesn't lose the absurdity value, but it presents a genuinely interesting mystery.

I don't mean UFOs or aliens, there are carcasses of animals being found with evidence of dissection by sharp instruments. In 30 years, nobody has been caught in the act.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


So what you are saying titen, is that people who own some cows and find them dead in some field and show signs of mutilation, no blood and surgical cuts on them become paranoid or already were, and their already messed up brain concocts some paranoid delusion of ufo's to explain it away so they can feel they have an answer to what is causing it?

That is an amazing observation of yours.. and sounds and appears rediculous coming from someone who thinks of themselves as smarter than most... I think you can do much better, don't you?

Originally posted by Turiddu
It would be much easier and safer to simply send undercover agents around the West, buying up cattle at auctions and doing the work in a secure lab.

There are a few problems with that. For one, you wouldn't be able to tell specifically where the cattle had come from, and get a sample of their local habitat, which could potentially make a big difference in the readings -- whether radiation or biological contamination. Also, there might be contamination from other cattle in a big sale lot. The appearance of strangers at local cattle auctions, who only buy a few cows here and there, would also probably be something the local cattle folk would notice.

As for the insurance angle, if it was so profitable, why would farmers just kill off one or two cows? Why not a lot more? Insurance companies are likely only to give you current market value, and probably less. Why bother with that for just a few cows here and there? Not only that, why make the deaths so elaborate with all the weird cuts in soft tissues? Why not just hit them on the head with a sledge hammer and let predators at them?

On another subject, the whole notion of bloating causing tearing might work for the stomach or udders, but it doesn't do much to explain complete de-fleshing around the head.

What I found interesting while watching a show last week on this very subject was one of the investigators said he for some reason got out his metal detector and ran it over the cow and was surprised when it started to sound of.

He checked his equipment and ran the machine over the cow again and now the metal had moved they compared the movement to an implant that Dr. Leer attempted to remove from a Human sometime back and when he went to grab it the thing moved.

This is something new that has been discovered.

I was also very saddened by this show and maybe we need to write and tell them just that.

I haven't liked to many of there shows, the way they go about it is sad very sad I hope it doesn't get picked up for another run to be honest.

I feel they overlook some things that might be interesting but they just say that cgi or whatever they choose.

Iwas disappointed to say the least.

Did somebody say that this phenomena has been occuring for thirty years or so ? And it was mentioned by the OP that the same organs are taken ? What the hell are these pesky intergalactic types doing with them ? Why is this experiment going to take so long to finish ? Why are they messing about in the dark at risk of being discovered and not just taking the whole cow ?

Seriously, though I am a believer in UFO's et al, these questions have run through my mind while reading this very interesting thread. It just doesn't add up does it when you think about it ?

Very good thread OP, made all the more interesting when you say that you have all those years and first hand experience of the subject.

Thanks.

A show should not be criticized just because their conclusions do not support your beliefs. If you truly believe you have a valid argument against their outcome, you should contact them and request that they re-open the case.

Originally posted by MrAndy
A show should not be criticized just because their conclusions do not support your beliefs. If you truly believe you have a valid argument against their outcome, you should contact them and request that they re-open the case.

People are criticising the shoddy science they drew the conclusions from. That's a totally valid reason to find fault with their conclusions.

Isn't Fact or Faked on SyFy? I.e. SciFi, i.e. the Science Fiction channel.

Why would anybody take any show on it seriously?

reply to post by MrAndy


Its not criticizing the show, its stating that they faked their evidence. Anyone familiar with leather could see that. They fabricated a debunking. Its not that they made a mistake, they blatantly lied.

This show is a joke! I mean the only successful debunking they did was the ghost car imo. All of these people are very young and inexperienced and do not hold such titles as "scientist" by degree only to be self proclaimed. I question the credentials and legitimacy of these people. They seem like a bunch of frat kids running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Show begins by these kids sitting around watching youtube videos then having a vote on what video is worthy of investigation. Usually they go after the sillier videos and leave the hard to explain alone. This time they went after Cattle Mutilations and were totally out of their league.

Cast

* Ben Hansen – Team Leader
* Jael de Pardo – Journalist
* Bill Murphy – Lead Scientist
* Austin Porter – Stunt Expert
* Chi-Lan Lieu – Photography Expert
* Larry Caughlan, Jr. – Effects Specialist


They did not debunk a thing only stand around the cow carcass and go EEeeewwwwwiiee Grooosss making faces while the surgeon attempted to cut it Cauterize ,scalpel , laser the flesh with utter FAIL!

Even the most skeptical have to see this show is a work of fiction in itself.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by theMegaladon]