Federal government to buy land for Flight 93 memorial (have you seen it?)

Federal government to buy land for Flight 93 memorial (have you seen it?)

www.cnn.com

Pennsylvania landowners around the September 11, 2001, crash site of Flight 93 have reached an agreement with the federal government allowing construction of a permanent memorial there, the government announced Monday.U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the National Park Service has "reached agreements with all the landowners needed" to establish the permanent memorial for the 40 people killed in the terrorist hijacking nearly eight years ago.

Salazar said the government will pay the landowners approximately $9.5 million.

One of several airliners hijacked on September 11, 2001, by

(visit the link for the full news article)

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

"Just in time for 911, an agreement has been reached on land for Flight 93 memorial. The red crescent is a go. If it was to be a religious symbol, what could be more egregious? "

I saw the CNN story and did some more digging.

I found the memorial design and was suprised, with all the ground zero mosque news that this hadn't made the front pages. Look at the design. Is the crescent design not just as bad as having a mosque near ground zero, since a lot of people have gotten riled up about that?

The designer was ordered to change the crescent design, but the crescent still remains. I think both projects are bad ideas and would put them in the same boat. What does ATS think?

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

the mosque isnt on ground zero its 2 blocks down and the federal goverment allready own everything anywayz so it doesnt matter what anyone thinks u hav no say in what they do

The federal government was actually encouraged to seize the land but ended up, for lack of better words, buying out the owner.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9c5b00a72f99.jpg[/atsimg]

If the designer understood, when he was asked to change it, that the crescent shape was the problem, why could it not have been changed? I would think that since taxpayer money is being used for the memorial, if the taxpayers don't approve of it, then the design should be changed.

I think that:

1) anything Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs says should be taken with a bushel or two of salt. Her record on spreading misinformation about the so-called Ground Zero Mosque is astonishing.

2) it is also very reminiscent of the design of the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D.C. which I think is one of the greatest war memorials ever designed.

3) I have no problem with people pressuring the government to redesign a memorial.

Build a mosque on it it worked for the towers.

reply to post by americandingbat


I was definetly weary of Atlas Shrugs but I figured, if that's the actual design, then it's definitely enough to be newsworthy. The thing is, I'm not against mosques or temples or churches being built in general, but to build a mosque near ground zero after the world was told that the 9/11 attacks was carried out by Muslims is distasteful.

The same goes with this memorial design. The crescent shape can be used anywhere and it won't rile me up at all. It's a shape before a symbol. But place the crescent shape as the centrepiece of a 9/11 memorial and it's not right. I'm sure Muslims would be happy if a Cross or 6-pointed star shaped statue or whatever was placed in Mecca.

Not that Muslims have anything to do with the design but nonetheless, it's not the right design if you're going to tell 6 billion people that Muslims did this on 9/11 and then build a memorial with a Muslim symbol.

reply to post by Portugoal


Fair enough.

I disagree on the subject of whether the Cordoba House project is distasteful, but there are plenty of other threads addressing that issue and I don't want to derail yours.

For this design, without the giant crescent and star superimposed on the image I don't think the thought would have crossed my mind that there could be a connection. As I said, it reminds me more of the design of the Vietnam Memorial.

But if people are upset, they have every right to try to get the planners to change the design. I just hope it won't get too nasty and that it won't end up needlessly miring the project in partisan bickering such that it never gets built.

reply to post by americandingbat


I think the context, in terms of where the memorial is going to be built, made the shape of the memorial relavant to me more than the picture being right beside the Islamic Crescent, but that's a fair enough point you made.

the government needs to quit figuring out ways to waste our money and start paying the bills.

You can also see this as a "semi-circle" which encompasses the area of the crash.

Just saying.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Like I said, anywhere else, this design would not bring any ideas into my head that relates it to Islam.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0248a3088ad5.jpg[/atsimg]

This is the first picture I saw of the design, not the one I posted above that compared it with the Islamic Crescent, and I immediately noticed the crescent-shape. I didn't think "Hey, that's a sweet looking semi-circle." It went more like, "Is that design really shaped like an Islamic Crescent?"

I just want to drop off some interesting links:

Here's a pdf download of the plans for the memorial:
Memorial Design

Here's the website for the project:
Flight93 National Memorial

One thing I didn't realize looking at the pictures here and at Atlas Shrugs is that it's actually an almost-complete circle of trees, and the red coloration is because they've chosen to use fall foliage colors in the brochure.

I see a semi circle. More importantly, with the info provided it appears that the map was manipulated in order to misinform. From the website, this pic shows North to the 12 o'clock position.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68d730975c6f.jpg[/atsimg]


Then this picture is placed on a map with Pennsylvania at the center and disregarding the North heading that's mysteriously removed and allegedly pointing to Mecca.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cae13fa45df4.jpg[/atsimg]


Here's a azimuthal polar map with their map placed at the correct location and at it's correct heading.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb119467dc16.jpg[/atsimg]

It no longer looks like it's pointing at Mecca.


After see Pamela Geller's involvement with the mosque issue this doesn't surprise me.

You know, I only saw a red semi-circle, too. But then I don't think islamic terrorists when I think of 9/11. *shrug*

Regardless, after viewing the data provided by Three_moons and americandingbat I see this entire thing as a non-issue quite suitable for being ignored.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I just want to drop off some interesting links:
Here's a pdf download of the plans for the memorial:
Memorial Design
Here's the website for the project:
Flight93 National Memorial
One thing I didn't realize looking at the pictures here and at Atlas Shrugs is that it's actually an almost-complete circle of trees, and the red coloration is because they've chosen to use fall foliage colors in the brochure.

I was skeptical of this thread at first until you provided the link.
It is here, on page 7 that the architects state, " This “allee” will be flanked by 40 memorial groves ..."
What the *snip* is and "allee"? Is this a play on words intending Ali?
"Sunni Muslims consider Ali the fourth and final of the Rashidun (rightly guided Caliphs), while Shi'a Muslims regard Ali as the first Imam and consider him and his descendants the rightful successors to Muhammad, all of which are members of the Ahl al-Bayt, the household of Muhammad"
en.wikipedia.org...

This is another slap in the face of America! Not skeptical anymore!

[edit for clarification and origin of the name Ali]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Violater1]

reply to post by Violater1


Define: Allee

•Traditionally, an avenue is a straight road with a line of trees or large shrubs running along each side, which is used, as its French source venir ("to come") indicates, to emphasize the "coming to," or arrival at a landscape or architectural feature. ...
•a general term for a walk bordered by trees or clipped hedges in a garden or park. In the French formal garden, the allées constitute the framework and are its most important features. ...
•a linear arrangement of trees, usually lining a street, canal or other feature

Sceptical again?

I never would have sold it was my land. Not because I wouldnt love 9 mil or because I have some aversion to semi circles.

Because I have a massive allergy to entities that would even remotely entertain the idea of confiscating my property should I not sell out.

The moment the investigators left I would have plowed the whole thing under and planted wheat then started suing everyone responsible for damaging my property and inconveniencing my family. Not for money but for restraint. Then posted no-trespassing signs every 10'.

reply to post by americandingbat


I was just about to say I know EXACTLY which anti-Islamic website the first scary red picture came from too. Not Geller's but it might as well be.

The only real story here might be the outrageous size of this park (2200 acres? really? for a memorial?) and price they're paying for the land and to build this thing.

And what a contrast to ground zero, where 70 times as many people died but commerce seems to be ruling supreme. Part of THAT memorial will be a JP Morgan Chase bank.

P.S. The real conspiracy here might be what the government wants to hide in Shanksville.

[edit on 8/20/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by rogerstigers

Did you follow the link?
Why place the word allee in quotes?
Of all the description in their diagrams, why are they drawing attention to this specific word?
Yes, I am still skeptical.
If it looks like a duck (semi-circular or crescent shaped)
Walks like a duck (Red in color).
And sounds like a duck (Ali).
Guess what!