France urged to repay Haiti billions paid for its independence

Originally posted by hinky

Why doesn't Haiti use the hundreds of millions it collected in earthquake relief to build better tents and squallier for it's citizens before collecting more money? Where has all that money gone, somewhere else?

Interesting question, Hinky. Here's your answer:


According to the UN-sponsored Haiti Reconstruction Fund, only two countries—Brazil and Estonia—have fully paid the pledged amount. The United States, France, Canada and many others have failed to send their pledged aid. A recent review by CNN found that just two percent of total pledges have been delivered to Haiti.

I got a question than if Haiti and other nations should not money from getting royally screwed in the past. Why are they being made to pay debts from the past.


The sanctions that were brought up on Haiti from France where did all the money go ?

Jamaica with the endless debt should be wiped out. The people in the cabinet and running Jamaica now had nothing to do with it; someone stated the same about France the people who did it are gone and therefore they shouldn't pay anything so why should countries such as Jamaica be forced to pay.

First, Rome will have to pay back France for occupying the province of Gallia Narbonensis in the 2nd century BC, and again for the Gallic Wars of the 1st century AD. Then, reparations for the sack of Gaul by the Franks will have to be sorted out, to say nothing of the Visigoths, Huns, and other scoundrels from late antiquity. (Somewhere in there the Huns are going to have to compensate the Visigoths in addition for the cruelties imposed upon that tribe by Attilla, but I digress). Then the British will have to toss in some money for the crippling Hhundred Years War in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. Then...well, you get the picture. I hope.

If haiti has all their loans and what-not forgiven, and returned to them then why not forgive other countries who have a huge debt burden to central banks?

if you do one, do all i say.

While we are at it:

1. How about the UK pays USA back for all the unlawful additional taxes it extorted from Americans during colonial rule

2. How about the Dutch pay back Indonesia for all the resources and forced labor it implemented and took away during hundreds of years of colonial rule

3. How about UK pays back india....

4. How about Indonesia Pays back east timur for allthe building its army destroyed during occupation

Etc etc etc....

[edit on 18-8-2010 by nagabonar]

Anti french propaganda ...

Its like greenpeace who only attacks non-US companies.

It is as likely Russia will pay Latvia and other post Soviet countries it's debt. They are not going to do it and the damage which was done to them to other countries it occupied will not be compensated - and it happened in last 70 years.

To think France would repay 200 year old debt to Haiti is ludicrous.

[edit on 18/8/2010 by archasama]

If France repays Haiti, I have no doubt black people in The USA will have their hands out too. I mean really, they bring up slavery like it still exsist for them.

The irony is that Haiti gained its independence after a slave rebellion overthrew their tyrannical ''masters'', yet for over 100 years, they were still effectively slaves to the French government.

I fully support repaying Haiti, and I would like to see more reparations towards countries that were exploited by their former colonial rulers.

What people seem to be forgetting is that the governments of today like France, UK, Spain etc. are still essentially the same entities as they were when they were exploiting these lands.

So, it doesn't really matter if it happened hundreds of years ago, because France is still directly benefiting from this, at the expense of Haiti.



[edit on 18-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by TheBandit795

 

Well go cry to a tree that pities you. The son is not responsible for the father's crime.

If your father was Hitler or Stalin, you are still innocent of his crimes and debts until you do the same.

The sons of the sons of the slaves who'd successfully revolted, were made to purchase their dead grandfathers freedom off the French govt, so as I see it whats good for the Gander is good for the Goose

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross

 

It's 200 years. Everyone responsible is dead. The hell if I care. They just want free cash to rebuild. Go sniff up someone's tree who cares.

You kidding me, man?

It seems like you get off on making harsh "get over it" statements. But this isn't an episode of Dr. Phil... this is real life where the people of Haiti got royally f***ed over and are STILL reeling and paying the price (literally) for it. So yeah... they deserve MORE than equal compensation in my opinion, they should get interest paid from a first world country who milked the suffering of an impoverished one.

Honestly I say "get over it" to France. They should pay the money and stop f***in whining about it, and so should you. THAT'S the real world, you screw up or screw someone over, you have to pay for it. Guess you're the kind of person who rails endlessly about welfare for the poor but religiously rationalizes corporate welfare and tax breaks for the rich. There's no way to justify your position, plain and simple.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Tough call. Glad it's not my decision to make.


Again, glad it's not my call.

As am I, however the original wealth hasn't disappeared it is still part of the french wealth pie, should that be sausage, the French nation still has the assets and wealth and can easily afford to reimburse the money they extorted.

France has treated it's ex colonies very well in terms of cash with the places that got freedom but stayed as a department of France getting the whole benefits of being in the EU and welfare state without the costs or means to pay for this lifestyle, look at the French Caribbean islands.

IMHO France will do the right thing to this ex colony who took, then paid a huge price for their freedom, let's not forget that every Black on Haiti is descended from a tortured kidnap victim.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
The only way to make sure that some of the money gets to those who need it would be to fly around the country dropping money from the air.

It sounds silly on its face, but think about it; does Joe Haiti have a better chance of getting some money this way? or would giving it all to politicians in Haiti be a better way to get the money to him?

Exactly. Drop it from planes.

I know you were just extending a Bernankian metaphor, but in those circumstances the tough guy on the deckchair with the gun would get all the cash the suckers who were scratching around in the mud in the helicopter downdraft collected.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Thepreye]

Ok

Every country pays it odious debt : ok USA, England, please do it

You're welcom

secure.wikimedia.org...

Average life expectancy:
France 81 Haiti 61

GDP per capita:
France $32,800 Haiti $1,300

Personal income per capita:
France $27,000 Haiti $1,500


Does it really matter if it's the French taxpayer that has to pay, when there is such an economic and social disparity between the two countries ?

If someone that was lucky enough to be born in an affluent country has to fork out a bit more money to help those who, through an accident of birth, are born in an impoverished country ?

Paying a few Euros extra is still largely preferable to living in a tin shack, and looking forward to a life where you'll be lucky to reach 60.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


"the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime." (etc etc etc etc )

Every country should pay its odious debt ? please do it ...

An odious debt shall no be paid : people sovereignty in their country : AND MONEY ( OR DEBT ) IS NOT IMPORTANT !

Money is nothing : change your money : and everything runs well !

this is a face.

if only it was possible for haiti to destroy/annihilate/forget france ever existed so that haiti is not in a perpetual cycle of its colonialism.

Originally posted by aCurious1
I think a little bit of more recent Haitian history is in order here, since Gorman91 and Sliadon believe that all the bad stuff happened 200 years ago.

You seem to have completely missed every point that I made. I never said every bad thing happened exactly 200 years ago. I said that it is unfair to ask the descendants of the French empire to bail out the descendants of Haiti. Gorman pointed out that it would not be fair to punish the hypothetical descendant of Hitler.

aCurious, if you're great-great-great-great Grandfather led a faction that was responsible for the economic genocide of a nation, would it be fair to say you are guilty of the crimes?

And I believe that nearly every post I commented in, I said that I was against the idea of France being forced to pay reparations because if nothing else the money would not go to those who need it. It would go into the hands of the corrupted elite and the impoverished of Haiti would stay in despair. The nation would continue to be third world.

But, it seems that you have more fun picking and choosing what lines of others posts that you like to go off of. Please, before you put words in others mouths again, be sure to read what they wrote.


-Sliadon

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Instead of circumventing the censors with profanities, understand that the central argument against the French being forced to pay is that those responsible are long since dead. You would not be happy if police came and arrested you because your ancestor was a messed up person. If the government made your family pay another family who generations ago someone was killed by a person of your family.

It has to do with "enough is enough." No one has said, "I do not care about the Haitian people." But the French should not have to pay for something they (and I mean in this generation) didn't do.


-Sliadon

edit: spelling

[edit on 8/18/2010 by Sliadon]

Originally posted by ickylevel
Anti french propaganda ...

Its like greenpeace who only attacks non-US companies.

Lol so true !