Why do so many people on ATS hate Bush?

Originally posted by StrangeLands

It's been a pleasure, kozmo.
Ok, now that you've slapped his ass, let's get on with the mud throwing shall we??



You mean "respect the Office, not the Man"? How about when the Man has made the Office a global joke? When the Man has betrayed the very things the Office represents? When the Man has used the Office to pursue his personal vendetta?

The man has done a far better job then Clinton and Carter put together. Bush has a plan, he's not going to give up, freedom to those people are what their going to get, we left them once, he promised they won't do it again. 8 more years troops will be there to stabalize the country. That's not funny, it's serious. The only thing you can think of is corporate scandel, i'm assuming thats what your referring to... This is old news, many people get kickbacks from corporations when they get in office. Or some people steal money from companies like Hillary Clinton. Whitewater??? And Bush deserves to be in the white house far more then Gore. That guy is crazy, what the hell would he bring to the table anyway? Stir up fear and hysterics in the American people about global warming and blow things out of proportion?? That typical liberal semantics... Blow things out of proportion then give yourself an ego stroke. Bill Clinton never did anything amazing, he admitted he could of done more, BUT! YUP the nice but... to make the ends justify the means, and his means weren't anything but to make himself look good instead of taking a risk and putting his ass on the line like Bush is doing... Polilng people to see if he is still favorable is the least of Bush's concerns unlike Clinton. Bush has his ass in the fryer right now because of Iraq. But he will go down in history as another leader just like Reagen for freeing an oppressed people and lowering taxes. What the hell is wrong with this picture??? Your political agenda is getting in the way of logic.. I would take a break from cnn if I was you...
Or how about when the Man doesn't deserve to be in the Office in the first place?

Bush isn't a leader. He's a parasite.
No Al Qaeda is a parasite and Bush is the Raid. You need to do a little more homework if you actually believe that ridiculous drivel.
Respect still has to be earned, TrueLies, even when you've stolen the White House.
Again, thats hogwash, prove to me he stole the whitehouse.... and you say "but no gore won the popular vote"!!

...they just care about themselves and what they can get from their liberal party.

Yeah, you're probably right. Because no-one ever voted Republican out of cynical, navel-gazing, money-grabbing selfishness, did they?
I don't know why don't you ask bill and hillary that?

Interesting posting style you have there, TrueLies.

You obviously missed all the messages about the new, family-friendly, PG-rated mudpit, and the earlier posts about keeping this thread civil. I'll debate these issues when you've a) got some evidence to back up your rants, b) learned some common courtesy and c) figured out how to use the quote function.

Oh, but before you go...

I don't know why don't you ask bill and hillary that?

I wasn't aware they voted Republican.

I must ask, once again, for all the Bush supporters. Just what good has he done? Something tangible...

I can find A LOT of bad that he has done, but I have yet to see any supporter actually find anything good...

I'm not a Bush supporter, nor am I a Bush hater. So, based on that I'm not sure that I'm qualified, based on your qualifier, to answer the question. But, since I am mostly a "Glass half full" kind of guy, I think that there are a few redeeming qualities and accomplishments worth pointing out.

The first being tax cuts... (Oh ok, now here come all of the deficit people :barf. I believe in smaller, less intrusive government. I believe that I know how to spend my money better than the government. Ergo, I am for less taxes. Now, pre-emptively, for you deficit hawks... The deficit is caused by the war on terror and the fact that the economy began to take a nosedive under Clinton due to the dot-com bust and the average American's loss of faith and confidence in our business leaders a la Enron which led to reduced revenues for the Federal government in the form of income and capitol gains taxes. That being said there are some things worth going into debt over. I believe that defending freedom everywhere is one of those just causes.

Another area where Bush has been successful is increasing the federal education budget (nearly doubled over three years). Yeah, the No Child Left Behind Act has alot to be desired. But, hey, rarely does any Bill lead to a perfect law. Expect changes. This, however, is a good foundation to begin investing in our children. It also takes some of the dictatorial control out of the hands of the beaurocrats and the NEA and forces guidelines for education upon them.

Medicare reform... a good start. Not nearly good enough but I at least applaud his effort. Now if we could just get politicians to stop attaching PORK to so many of these Bills, we might be able to enact a law that really performs up to it's intended level. This medicare bill has so much pork, one could confuse it with a pig farm. That's not the President's fault however, as the line item veto bill never passed. And as we all know, sometimes a President has to play along with the pork if they want to further their own agenda. Don't worry though, in time this too will be ammended... for the better I hope.

There are other things that Bush has done well, but I hope that this suffices. These are pretty big in my opinion.

Tax cuts for the upper few percent in the country doesn't impress me. But I guess it's super-groovy for those lucky folks.

The Bush Tax: How Much Is It Costing You?

And last I looked, the amount that is being wasted because of these tax cuts and various wars and such, that many programs, including education are up for spending cuts.

And here is bit about the medicare goodness...

"Medicare Actuary Testifies He Was Ordered To Withhold Higher Drug Bill Cost Figures From Congress"

and here

The selling of Bush�s Medicare plan: a case history of political gangsterism

Not very good...

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Tax cuts for the upper few percent in the country doesn't impress me. But I guess it's super-groovy for those lucky folks.

You know why he did that???

Because they are the ones who pay the WELFARE BUMS, they support the MAJORITY OF THE ECONOMY...

They carry THEE most weight of this country on their shoulders, so why shouldn't they get a tax cut.........


You guys just want to take take take... THOSE MEN AND WOMEN WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF TO GET WHERE THEY ARE AND YOU SNARL AT THEM BECAUSE THEY GET A TAX CUT!!!

*shakes head and throws mud at your fact*

Please tell me why someone on welfare should get a tax cut??
What did they do to support the economy, what work did they do to get where they are today.. Oh wait, thats right, they haven't gotten off their couch yet...

Those men and women are taxed the highest because they make the most, because they made themselves that way, and your angry at them for their success...

*pie in your face*

Yeah, TrueLies, we know the "reasons" Bush cut taxes for the rich.

You know, in civlised countries, we don't tax the poor into total poverty, we take a little more from those who can afford it and make the system more equitable. You don't do that in America, of course, because everyone who's wealthy in the US is a hard-working entrepreneur (oh, damn, you're a fan of Bush - "entrepreneur" means "someone who owns a business and attempts to make their fortune by risk and initiative"). No-one in the US inheritted a bloated businesses from Mommy and Daddy and continues to make a quick buck exploiting cheap labour and stupid consumers, do they?

Bush cut those taxes because he's a Republican, and, once again, it's all about the money. He cut taxes because that's what he's for. It wasn't a "good" deed, it was cynical move which is hard-wired into his genes. I mean, the guys at the top of the Bush regime don't want to pay any more tax on their ill-gotten oil gains than they really need to, right? Far better to screw the blacks and the latinos - hey, a few thousand more kids living below the poverty line isn't going to matter!

Particularly when you can't see then from Pennsylvania Avenue.

More cash for the rich, screw the poor - welcome to the Decade of Dubya!

Oh, and sorry you couldn't be bothered raising your game enough to restate your first post in reasonable terms - I guess you haven't got "off your couch" yet. Shame, I'm sure it would have been most enlightening.

Originally posted by StrangeLands
Far better to screw the blacks and the latinos - hey, a few thousand more kids living below the poverty line isn't going to matter!

More cash for the rich, screw the poor - welcome to the Decade of Dubya!

Gotcha... There you go, everybody, this proves exactly what i've been talking about.
These liberals expect rich people to pay for other people who don't want to get off their ass, latino's and blacks? Why are you singling them out? Why not whites too, elves or dwarfs?

Is it because you believe black people can't make it on their own, and that latino's can't either which is why rich people have to pay for their asses?

Not only are you a bigot i'm going to call you a racist too, this proves that liberals create racial warfare...
And why are rich people responsible for children who come from parents who can't take care of them, this isn't a communist country so don't act like it is.
*pie in your face*

NOTE: *** IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE LIBERAL CREATE RACIAL AND CLASS WARFARE READ HIS POST***
Nobody is responsible for anybody else's ass but themselves.

You hate rich people because they did it on their own, and now that they have all this money it's their DUTY to pay off the leeches of society??

Gimme a break.

This is typical liberal bull# which is why I will never vote for them.

Who's responsible for watering their gardens when the soil gets dry?
THE HOMEOWNER, same goes for personal well being, nobody is responsible but YOU. you you you you, not santa claus, or the boogeyman, or superman, but your own stupid ass, if you can get off the couch to get your nails done or sell drugs, then you can gett of the couch to get a job, go to school, do what the rich people did to get their riches.... BY EARNING IT....

Unless you have a physical disability of mental retardation, there is no excuse for it. If you were stupid enough to get knocked up and can't work fine, but try hard enough to get off welfare, this is someone else's pay check their using to support their life.

God bless George bush for giving that tax cut, if I was a rich man, i'd thank him too, those pay checks rich people get, get big chunks wiped off even though they earned it...

Say hi to marx for me... And don't forget to give him the finger...




[edit on 25-6-2004 by TrueLies]

[edit on 25-6-2004 by TrueLies]

Strangelands, does Capitalism mean anything to you? When you start taking money from people and giving to others because they don't earn a good enough living, people tend to get upset. That is borderline socialism or even communism.

Let me tell you a story about a young kid who grew up on a farm, 1 of 9 children to a drunk. They grew up extremely poor because their father spent their money on booze. He barely graduated high school. Did he bitch and whine because the rich should give up some of their hard earned $ to him? Hell no, he decided to make a better life for him and his future family.

He knew nothing except car mechanics and worked as one for many years barley making ends meet. Still he did not bitch about the rich because they deserved what they earn.

He finally got a job in the insurance industry, which he knew nothing about and started working his as* off. Many years passed and he was eventually offered joint ownership. He made 3 million dollars in 1997, his best year ever.

That man is my father and I could only hope to be like him. My point is that there is UNLIMITED opportunity in this country for anyone who is willing to work and not take handouts.

Why should we have to pay for someone who doesn't have the desire to better themselves?

BTW, not only does he pay more taxes, but he also pays a higher percentage, close to 40%. How is that fair?



[edit on 6-25-2004 by nyarlathotep]

His is an idiot with an IQ that of a piece of rye bread, plain and simple. If it was any other president, I would say the same thing.

Originally posted by TrickmastertricK
His is an idiot with an IQ that of a piece of rye bread, plain and simple. If it was any other president, I would say the same thing.

I wasn't aware the bread had an IQ. Typical ignorant, childish reply. Why don't you contribute to this thread instead of bringing it down to a child's level?
Do you even know what the President's IQ is? If not, then shut the hell up and move on. You ignorance is not wanted here.

That Starngelands is not very familiar with the concept of Capitalism. It is also obvious that he is not familiar with our graduated tax tables. I cannot think of one person in the US who is "Taxed into poverty" as he puts it. When you pay a higher percentage of taxes and there is a tax cut, it is equitable to offer the same relative amount of relief to EVERYONE.

Oh heck, what am I doing!?!? I'm debating the merits of the US government and our tax system with a foreigner who is obvioulsy unaware of what he speaks! I'm out!

Originally posted by TrueLies
These liberals expect rich people to pay for other people who don't want to get off their ass, latino's and blacks? Why are you singling them out? Why not whites too, elves or dwarfs?

Well, TrueLies, that's because - and I'm sorry if this is a shock - Elves and Dwarves aren't real. The Lord of the Rings wasn't a documentary. I know it's confusing, because so much of the stuff you see on TV about Bush isn't real either, but you've got try and keep up. I'm sorry, but there it is.

Not only are you a bigot i'm going to call you a racist too, this proves that liberals create racial warfare...

You can call me whatever the hell you like, it's just (yet more) proof of your lack of courtesy and common decency. So call me whatever you like, whatever makes it easier for you to hate me and ignore the nagging doubts that plague you in the night - I'll care when you can back it up with evidence.

And why are rich people responsible for children who come from parents who can't take care of them, this isn't a communist country so don't act like it is.

When the fundamental structures of your society are so biased towards the white middle-aged male, when the educational and employment opportunities for non-white communities are demonstrably poorer than middle-class whites, and when you have a spoiled, stupid, rich-kid president who'll give his buddies a tax break and royally shafts the the rest of the country, how the hell can you expect low-income parents to give their kids a fighting chance?

This isn't about communism, it's about fanatical right-wing zealots whose lives are ruled by fear, jealousy and selfish greed.

Nobody is responsible for anybody else's ass but themselves.

Wow. Enlightened, aren't you? I sure hope you don't have kids, TrueLies, because I'd hate to think of the poor things having their piggy-banks raided by Daddy. After all, you're just looking out for yourself, right?

YOu hate rich people because they did on their own, and now that they have all this money it's their DUTY to pay off the leeches of society??

It's the moral obligation of every decent person to assist those who are less fortunate. I can't believe that any reasonable person thinks otherwise.

THis is typical liberal bull# which is why I will never vote for them.

Oh, really? Damn. Well, they'll just have to try and get on without you, won't they?



Keep trying, TrueLies, this is fun. What else have you got?

The sad thing about his government is that they've brainwashed him into believing thats what capitalism does when clearly it's a socialist policy they place on civilians.


Socialist governments will claim they aren't.

I've lived in a socialist democratic country, they will tax the poor to a point where these poor people won't be able to get out of poverty, and the rich get richer.

People in those countries can still pick and choose which jobs they want, and can also start their own business.

Now strangelands, where do you get the notion that entrepreneurship is a negative thing? I'm going to say because you've been brainwashed from your government, a government like that wants to keep you down and dependant on them, thats why leaders of communist countries enjoy their positions because it keeps you dependant on them.

A free market society is what makes America great. The land of opportunity, the ones who come here to take advantage of that do pretty well.
So let me ask you why you think it's their duty as well as the citizens of America to pay off the poor?

When clearly this country is a self reliable one, or was built that way...
The conservatives and libertarians want people to fend for themselves, it's not a stone age it's called self responsibility something you should learn growing up.

Liberals however will differ on that point. Their line goes something like this " Oh you poor poor people, you shouldn't have to live that way, here let me take from peter and give to paul to balance the scales, those rich people shouldn't be hoarding all the money, they should be sharing it with you poor people".

Liberals will reward everything your parents told you was not right.

So when you break it down it goes like this but the Liberals won't admit it.

" Here let me take from this man who EARNED his position in life which is stealing but we think it's ok because we're aholes, and give to you poor loser because your lazy and a whiner and we want you to depend on us so that we can maintain our position of power and get you guys to keep voting for us because theirs more of you losers in this country and while we sit here and make millions of dollars off you people, you losers are still sitting there with your thumb in your mouth and spending your welfare check on hair and nails. But it's ok as long as you keep voting for us".

That's the difference between lib and cons.

Dishonest eh... You bet, but as long as they get their ging they'll be happy assist em.



[edit on 25-6-2004 by TrueLies]

Maybe you haven't taken a good look around because you've been stroking the latino and black cock too long to see that dwarves to exist, their short people who can't grow as tall as us, and the the elf thing was exhuberating my cute sense of humor...

But your so sharp as it is which is why you haven't identified the dwarfs around you... (Satire).

Also my elf joke was just that a joke, but your so on the ball you couldn't miss that could you... (Satire).

You have a pretty twisted sense of how reality works my comrade

I'd like to know where you get people like me are biased towards the white middle class working male??


You should know my father is middle class, makes his living as GM, has for 26 yrs, makes good money, hates his job, and is in thousands of dollars of debt, but you know what, he understands he could change jobs, go back to school, or open his own business but he won't.

He will vote conservative because believes everybody creates their own career destiny and understands that his pay check shouldn't be going to welfare scum who can't get off the couch to work.

Thats just how it is... I guess around these neck of the woods those older men and women were taught self responsibility, and if you don't want to do it then you become a bum.

Harsh? Nah, it's logical. Thats what happens...

If you live in a communist country though, you could be a the laziest person and still get the same check the guy next door does even though he's working his ass off...

Is that fair to the guy next door who works?? No..

But the lazy # stick doesn't care does he... No.

That's why Bush is so great for this country, he doesn't give a # what people think about him, and thats cool. Clinton however did and thats why he made such a horrible leader.
Bush's tax cut spoke to hard workers that made lot's of money and he told them why should you have to put for Paul and deduct all that money from a paycheck that you earned? It's NOT FAIR.


And libs hate that, because it makes them look bad... But on the inside they don't really care because their still sitting in their high paying positions taking care of the losers, and yes they know their losers... Their are special circumstances that i'm aware of for welfare people, but for the most part many of them don't need to be on it, they just WANT TO BE.

[edit on 25-6-2004 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by TrueLies

Poor people meaning lower middle class paychecks but maybe debtors to some corporations like visa or mc.

Pleas tell me you are not going to use the fact that people spend beyond their means as a way to prove your point.

If someone owes money to debtors like visa or mc, that means they spent money they didn't have. Come on, I have seen your intelligent posts before, and this is just a cop-out

BTW,

England isn't as democractic as you think it is, it's borderline socialist which is why you believe the drivel they subconsciously beat in your head.

And i'm starting to think your just lying to yourself, because this conversation well my side of it anyway is so logical and easy to understand, and you just won't.

You can believe whatever you want, but your attitude towards hardworking people is pretty pathetic, and your poor baby attitude towards the poor is pretty pathetic also.

You would side with satan before you would side with God, so I have no reason to talk with you anymore.

Hate Bush fine, but he's not your president so don't worry yourself so much over it, I love him, he's cool, made some poor decisions but for the most part he's doing a hell of a job and i'll worry about it because i'm in this country you aren't.

Life liberty and the pusuit of happiness is a good combination.. Liberty is freedom to live how you want, if you can't pick and choose how you want to live you not free, if you pick to be a bum you can do that here, if you want to make lot's of money you can do that here also, but don't expect people to be happy about it when they have to take their hard earned money and give it away to some loser. That's not fair...

But you can thank the liberals for that... Aholes.

Originally posted by nyarlathotep

Originally posted by TrueLies

Poor people meaning lower middle class paychecks but maybe debtors to some corporations like visa or mc.

Pleas tell me you are not going to use the fact that people spend beyond their means as a way to prove your point.

Actually, I was thinking of my dad...
And he had to spend beyond what he was making because my bitch of a mother lied to the courts to get more money out of him because she couldn't control my dad. Even tho they made a verbal agreement with the child support when I was little.

Thats what was going through my head at the time..

I am indeed aware of the concept of Capitalism, kozmo. This is not about supporting layabouts and slackers through welfare. What I am talking about is hard-working people who just can't get a break - single mothers who work full-time but can barely raise the money to cover childcare, or honest, decent men who've been made redundant and find themselves unemployable.

I'm not suggesting communism, I'm talking about good-hearted people who make a decent living sharing some of their fortune with those who are less fortunate. People who refuse to work or abuse the system should be left to their own devices - but for those who find themselves in an inescapable position through no fault of their own, I believe it's the moral obligation of every civilised person to help.

I approve of a free market and equitable government. I do not approve of an excessively generous welfare state. The problem is this: Capitalism only works when the system is fair and everyone truly has the same opportunities, when every single person, no matter their background, can make their fortune by hard work and individual effort.

If you think that I've just described the US, you're sadly mistaken.

TrueLies, I'm a huge fan of your tactic of going back and editing your previous posts after the replies have been posted. It's a good trick - and I bet that when you read it, it almost looks as if you won the argument, doesn't it?

I've lived in a socialist democratic country, they will tax the poor to a point where these poor people won't be able to get out of poverty, and the rich get richer.

Do you need to rearrange these words in order to make a real point? A socialist state, TrueLies, supports the poor by taxing the rich, while in your example...

Well, frankly, I don't know what you're talking about.

I can see you're clearly enjoying this opportunity to rant, so I'll sit back and let you do it. If you ever feel like reading my posts, go ahead. I'm sorry - and disappointed - that you've dragged this once-civilised thread down to your level, but I guess that Republicans just can't let go of the money thing, huh?

Oh, and one last thing:

...and the the elf thing was exhuberating my cute sense of humor...

Exhuberating isn't even nearly a word. Wow, did you ever vote for the right person!

Originally posted by StrangeLands


TrueLies, I'm a huge fan of your tactic of going back and editing your previous posts after the replies have been posted. It's a good trick - and I bet that when you read it, it almost looks as if you won the argument, doesn't it?
What the hell are you talking about... I believe I haven't done that, show me where i've done that I dare you... and that thing about it being a good trick i'm assuming thats what you do when you believe you've lost the argument, I have a good bull# detector and can clearly see that you exhuberate self projection.

I've lived in a socialist democratic country, they will tax the poor to a point where these poor people won't be able to get out of poverty, and the rich get richer.

Do you need to rearrange these words in order to make a real point? A socialist state, TrueLies, supports the poor by taxing the rich, while in your example...
Ok here we go i'll explain: IMO, Canada is borderling socialist while claiming to democratic... The reason I say this is because they have the "notwithstanding" clause which basically says you can do what you want if it's within the boundaries of what the government approves of.. So you can't truly have that bill of rights for the people... Where i'm from what was happening was a 7% tax a 8% tax, a food , liquor tax, both were separate, then on top of it you have money being deducted from your pay check and if your making ok money and doing ok, your ok, if your poor all those circumstance were making you poorer and not being able to achieve more money to save, and the rich well they were just getting richer. Thats what I meant from that..
Well, frankly, I don't know what you're talking about.

I can see you're clearly enjoying this opportunity to rant, so I'll sit back and let you do it. If you ever feel like reading my posts, go ahead. I'm sorry - and disappointed - that you've dragged this once-civilised thread down to your level, but I guess that Republicans just can't let go of the money thing, huh?
Your right they can't let go of THEIR money if it's going to BULL# SOCIAL PROGRAMS and to ninnies who can't and WON'T get off their ass... so your right on that point...
Oh, and one last thing:

...and the the elf thing was exhuberating my cute sense of humor...

Exhuberating isn't even nearly a word. Wow, did you ever vote for the right person!Actually "EXHUBERATE" Is a word LOOK IT UP... Seek and you shall find....