Revelation; 144,000

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

Thank you for the warning.
I believe in the Son, so I am satisfied that I meet the necessary condition.

I do NOT believe in the Son and I am not worried whether god's wrath will descend on me or not because I don't believe in 'him' either.
I will not be intimidated into believing by people posting ancient threats made up by people trying to push their agenda in those days.

Papatuanuku, Tangaroa and Tane have more relevance to my life than a Middle Eastern Death Cult with no understanding of the intricacies of this land.....although I place no stock in these 'gods' either, they are more geographically relevant than the god of the bible.

Originally posted by aorAki

I will not be intimidated into believing by people posting ancient threats made up by people trying to push their agenda in those days.

Yet some irresistable urge is drawing you to read such postings.
Be careful- if you blink, you'll be a Christian before you know it.

ha!

I'm allowed to show an interest in things even if I give them no stock?

In my opinion, it pays to have at least an understanding of it as it seems to have held a large number of people under its sway and, for better or worse arguably, has influenced/tainted the way we go about our lives, right down to holidays and christmas.
I'm also curious as to why so many people are drawn into it and why it has had no effect on me (regarding belief) despite the best attempts of people, including my family.


In other words: know thine enemy!

Originally posted by aorAki
I'm allowed to show an interest in things even if I give them no stock?

Yes, of course. I was just mildly amused by the paradox.
I used to be an atheist, so I'm conscious of how easy it is to get drawn in.
If you're willing to take the risk, be my guest.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

I miss the old Captain America...

Originally posted by NewCaptainAmerica
Excellent post Disraeli! I feel you are on the right path and my senses are only confirmed by the way you deal with those that would discredit you. That is the light and the love of Christ. This is the first post of yours I have stumbled upon and I look forward to reading the rest with great interest.

Yup he is on the right path. The exoteric path is right for spiritual babes just as milk is right for babes. Someday he might be right for adult food, that is to say the esoteric path. But babes should not be forced to eat solid food. Maybe I should leave him to his exoteric milk, eh?

Be wary my friend, we will only see more and more people claiming to be enlightened and in touch with God, and yet dismiss the bible and point to other sources or their own power and declare themselves of having a god-like status.

Well, a mystic is by definition in touch with God. I think that Christian fundamentalists can't understand what it means to be a mystic.

Yup, I claim to be a Christian mystic in touch with God in a way that non-mystic Christian fundamentalists like DISRAELI can't understand. That doesn't mean I claim to have a god-like status.

I don't dismiss the Bible. It's just that I interpret it in terms of esotericism. That is as it should be because those are the terms of mystics. Exoteric terms are for the non-mystic common folk. After all, not everyone can be a mystic.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Student X]

reply to post by Student X

Yes, I am one of those innocent babes who heeds a mother's warning to stay away from the seductions of harlots;

"With much seductive speech she persuades him; with her smooth talk she compels him...
Let not your heart turn aside to her ways, do not stray into her paths."
Proverbs ch7 vv21-25.

You're offering me adultery and calling it adulthood.
I'm not going to be deceived.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Well my friend, maybe you should raise your mental defenses or something!

I am talking to you in good faith, I am not trying to deceive you. I am not telling you anything that I don't believe to be true.

You are making it difficult for me to continue talking to you. I feel like I can't even disagree with you without risk of alienating you completely. I am trying to tread carefully, because I want to talk to you further.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Student X
Exoteric terms are for the non-mystic common folk. After all, not everyone can be a mystic.

What you are doing here is demonstrating the underlying arrogance of your approach, by expressing your contempt for those who won't follow the same path.

You call this "treading carefully"? It strikes me as a massive tactical error. You have let the mask slip.

The only way that you are alienating me is by trying to destroy the message I'm presenting, as much as may lie in your power. If you continue to do so while expressing friendship, that would be hypocritical.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Student X
Exoteric terms are for the non-mystic common folk. After all, not everyone can be a mystic.

What you are doing here is demonstrating the underlying arrogance of your approach, by expressing your contempt for those who won't follow the same path.

Arrogance perhaps but not contempt. I love each and every living thing. I have no contempt for anyone. Have I made you feel contempt? If so I'm sorry. As I said before, I used to have a exoteric perspective like yours. I have no contempt for you, quite the contrary. I care about you and about all life.

The only way that you are alienating me is by trying to destroy the message I'm presenting, as much as may lie in your power. If you continue to do so while expressing friendship, that would be hypocritical.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

If I can destroy your message I will do so. But I will build it up again stronger than before. Your message must undergo its own death and resurrection. That is your initiation. I will help you with that as a friend.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Student X
Exoteric terms are for the non-mystic common folk. After all, not everyone can be a mystic.

"Common folk" is an expression of contempt- not just for me, but for all those who are taking the Bible seriously.
If you want to win converts among the religious folk, it is not a good idea to show them how much you despise them. As I said, that was a massive tactical error.

You are hostile to what I am doing. That makes you a hostile. Please don't insult my intelligence by pretending anything else.

Edited as an afterthought! Cheers!

[edit on 8/16/2010 by Greensage]

reply to post by Greensage

OK, I saw the original post, thanks- but I promise to keep the secret.
Anyway, I regard what you are referring to as an unintentional compliment.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Student X
Exoteric terms are for the non-mystic common folk. After all, not everyone can be a mystic.

"Common folk" is an expression of contempt- not just for me, but for all those who are taking the Bible seriously.

If that's what that is then I take it back. In its place I substitute the expression man-on-the-street.

If you want to win converts among the religious folk, it is not a good idea to show them how much you despise them. As I said, that was a massive tactical error.

You are hostile to what I am doing. That makes you a hostile. Please don't insult my intelligence by pretending anything else.

But you yourself admitted that an outsider can't judge the Holy Spirit in the heart of another. And you admitted that people with mistaken beliefs can be saved.

You don't yet understand my exegesis (but I understand yours) and you can't judge my heart. That means you are not in a position to judge whether I am truly a friend or foe.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Student X
If that's what that is then I take it back. In its place I substitute the expression man-on-the-street.

Too late. You have revealed what you think.

That means you are not in a position to judge whether I am truly a friend or foe.

I am not claiming to judge your heart.
Your actions are those of a foe.
I have already pointed out that continuing them while simultaneously proclaiming friendship would be hypocrisy.
All you're doing here is playing verbal games.

reply to post by DISRAELI

getting back on topic;
There is a difference between BEING and nonbeing.
There is a difference between TRUTH and the lie.
There is a difference between LIFE and death.
There is a difference between GOOD and evil.
There is a difference between GOD and not-God.

Those who affirm the second group are the enemies of God.
Those who deny the difference are the enemies of God.

This is the clear polarity which the Biblical God affirms, and my intention is to stand by the Biblical faith.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Student X
If that's what that is then I take it back. In its place I substitute the expression man-on-the-street.

Too late. You have revealed what you think.

lol

Not very forgiving, are you? First you assign a self-serving interpretation to my expression, as if no one could love all folk, common and uncommon alike. And yes by doing that you do presume to judge my heart.

Then when I try to smooth our communication by trying to use another expression, you are devoid of grace.

I am not claiming to judge your heart.

But you have judged. Just not in so many words.

Every time a Christian judges something he has no right to judge, a demon gets its wings.

Your actions are those of a foe.

My actions are those of a debate partner. In that sense, sure I'm a foe. But I wish you no ill will and I don't want to cause you emotional harm. But I am determined to balance your exoteric eschatology with an occasional post of my own. I am determined to be respectful to you regardless of the accusations you hurl at me. If I occasionally fail and show disrespect I ask your forgiveness. Like anyone I too get frustrated.

I have already pointed out that continuing them while simultaneously proclaiming friendship would be hypocrisy.
All you're doing here is playing verbal games.

You can treat me as a foe if you want. I will continue to consider you my spiritual baby brother.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by Danbones
my feeliing is the bankers have shaped judeo christian and muslim beliefs since the days of Babylon

But I'm not convinced that "the bankers" have been around since the days of Babylon. They're a modern phenomenon.
If you look into history, you don't really find one single, continuous "elite" going back to the beginning of time. What you find is an unceasing turmnover of different elites. The Bible predates the ones we have now. It is an independent growth.

As we speak thirty million american fundies are sitting on their butts waiting to be raptured and so refuse to take responsibility for any of the atrocities commited in their name and with their support.

A major voting block which supports the luciferian agenda because it makes their bible come true.

I find it difficult to believe that this doctrine is really controlling so much political voting power, but maybe that's because I don't live in the US.

But even if this is true, it doesn't show that there is anything wrong with the Bible. Only that the Bible can be misused. The fact that people can use matches in arson attacks doesn't show that matches are evil; only that matches can be misused.

The Bible needs to be assessed on its own merits.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

were you going to do a thread on the two witnesses?

i believe they are the same as the 144000.

Originally posted by iamnot
were you going to do a thread on the two witnesses?

i believe they are the same as the 144000.

a) Yes, indeed. God willing, the weekend after next.
b) Yes, indeed. Great minds think alike.