If you like private property you should be for the NY Mosque

As far as who bought the land goes, there are actually two properties involved (NYC real estate is complicated).

One parcel was bought outright, and one is on long-term lease (til 2071, with demolition and rebuilding rights), both by Soho Properties, a real estate development company headed by Sharif el-Gamal.

Not sure where someone got the waiter idea, it's perfectly possible that he worked as a waiter at some point, but Soho Properties was incorporated in 2003 and made the news in 2009 for buying a building in Chelsea for 47 million.

Here's an interview at beliefnet with Sharif el-Gamal:
Q&A with Sharif el-Gamal

and here's the Wikipedia article on Soho Properties:
Soho Properties

[edit on 8/16/2010 by americandingbat]

reply to post by americandingbat


Thanks, that was helpful. I hadnt looked up who owned it. It confirms that the owner and his property are completely legitimate and that Obamas is correct to defend it.

El-Gamal:

He envisions it as "a place where I could show off my hospitality, my culture, my background".

(From the Wikipedia-Page on Soho Properties)

Muslim Leaders to abandon plans for Mosque

And the idiot-crowds cheer.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Indeed they did. But prematurely:

Property Honcho Denies Islamic Leaders Abandoning Ground Zero

Who knows what will happen in the end.

Supporting a planning system, that supports the will of the locals-public, is not the same as opposing private property. If I own a piece of New York I have no more right to turn into a Mosque (without permission) than I have to turn it into a Toxic Waste dump (even if it is for religion).

PS Try not to fall out with friends over politics! Just like an a traffic accident, an argument always takes at least two. Therefore handle yourself right, and people behave right, and if people behave then right politics is fun.
I’ve had hundreds of debates over the years, but I know its more than 7 years since I last had a nasty argument, about it. There’s been like two times when my opponent lost it, but it just makes them look such a fool, because I didn’t!!

A trick is to wait till you opponent makes a personalized point, and then offer stop debating because “it’s getting too warm”. 9 out of 10 times the opponent is virtually begging for you to continue, because they don’t want the last thing they said to be a personalized insult
Even if you only continue talking in 5 minutes time (which often happens) then you command for far more respect. And if you command more respect, so too (does often) the mental, reception given to what you say.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I am glad we can finally agree on something. Good thread

I personally do not care that muslims are setting up a mosque there contrary to the concerns of many others.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
Supporting a planning system, that supports the will of the locals-public, is not the same as opposing private property. If I own a piece of New York I have no more right to turn into a Mosque (without permission) than I have to turn it into a Toxic Waste dump (even if it is for religion).

But they have zoning approval and the support of the local Community Board for this project.

Polls that indicate most New York City voters oppose this community center/mosque also show that more Manhattan voters approve of it than oppose it.

They had near-unanimous support at the Community Board level, which is a heck of an accomplishment for any major building project in NYC.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"If you like private property you should be for the NY Mosque"

I agree.

Originally posted by Liberal1984

PS Try not to fall out with friends over politics!

Absolutely. We're OK now. I'd only terminate the friendship if he starts planning to bomb the Mosque.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I am glad we can finally agree on something. Good thread

I personally do not care that muslims are setting up a mosque there contrary to the concerns of many others.

Me neither - its none of my Business what my fellow Americans do on their lawfully acquired property.

Im surprised that everyone is still hotly Debating this.

Ron Paul defends NYC Mosque

Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Correction: If you like private property you should be for ALLOWING the NY Mosque. Not necessarily for it, but for allowing it. They are complete idiots for wanting to open it on 9/11. Absolute insanity. 9/12 may make some kind of sense for "moving past 9/11" but probably not that day either. Maybe 10/1 would make more sense.

They are no idiots. They know what they are doing. If they wanted to be sensitive to non-Islamic sentiments the NY muslims would've renounced Islam over 9/11, let alone build a mosque.

I would've renounced an ideology such as Islam, right after I learned that the founder married a six year old, let alone 9/11.

Has anyone ever renounced Islam over 9/11?

Oh, I forget, you can't leave Islam. You get a fatwa on your head.

reply to post by tungus


Ive renounced Islam a long time ago because I prefer more tolerant Religions. Tolerance is important to me. Thats why I tolerate that others build their places of worship. Downtown New York is a diverse place. There are churches, synagogues and mosques. There is no issue here at all.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by tungus

 

Ive renounced Islam a long time ago because I prefer more tolerant Religions. Tolerance is important to me. Thats why I tolerate that others build their places of worship. Downtown New York is a diverse place. There are churches, synagogues and mosques. There is no issue here at all.

I do not doubt your tolerance or the tolerance of those who support the mosque. It is Islam's tolerance and sensitivity to non-Muslims that is in question.

Originally posted by tungus

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by tungus

 

Ive renounced Islam a long time ago because I prefer more tolerant Religions. Tolerance is important to me. Thats why I tolerate that others build their places of worship. Downtown New York is a diverse place. There are churches, synagogues and mosques. There is no issue here at all.

I do not doubt your tolerance or the tolerance of those who support the mosque. It is Islam's tolerance and sensitivity to non-Muslims that is in question.

It's not a hivemind, you know.

Some Muslims are tolerant, some are not.

What I am still having a hard time understanding is why are we saying MOSQUE?

Mosque-

The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship although there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller, masjids dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger masajid where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held (مسجد جامع, masjid jāmi‘), which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an.

No where in the definition does it state, oh yeah, there's a basketball court, and a culinary school inside.

The Islamic Community Center, has a place to worship inside, because they pray 5 times a day. Its a 13 floored complex, with the last 2 floors for praying, that is NOT a mosque.

Please watch this video.
Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10


Peace.

reply to post by LeftWingLarry


Hive mind!

Why didn't I think of that!

You're right, the Ka'bah totally does not invoke a "hive mind" image! More like the Borg cube image.


Anyway, if you read my post you would notice that I did not say that all Muslims are intolerant. I said that Islam is intolerant.
Big difference.

Muslims do not need Islam, Islam needs Muslims. Lots of them.

Wherever Islam goes-- it erases the identity of the conquered people and replaces it with an Islamic one.

The Persians are now Muslim, and so are the Afghanis, the Albanians, the Indonesians and every other conquered land.
No matter who they are or where they are 5 times a day Muslims have to drop everything and align themselves with Mecca.

Why do you think they have to pray facing Mecca?
To get a better signal?

It is the ultimate in identity theft and personality control.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
What I am still having a hard time understanding is why are we saying MOSQUE?

The Islamic Community Center, has a place to worship inside, because they pray 5 times a day. Its a 13 floored complex, with the last 2 floors for praying, that is NOT a mosque.

Please watch this video.
Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

Peace.

Please watch this video and maybe you will understand "why they are calling it a mosque". But then again, maybe you won't. In the rare case that you might, here it is:

Originally posted by tungus

I do not doubt your tolerance or the tolerance of those who support the mosque. It is Islam's tolerance and sensitivity to non-Muslims that is in question.

If someone is intolerant my only chance of teaching them tolerance is by example.